Thought I should add that one place through this all where I seen no shortages at all, Bulk Barn. Full stock every time I have stuck my head in but now you cant scoop out your own product, someone walks around with you and scoops out the product for you.

Hard to tell from the pic, but did bulk barn vacuum seal for you or did you just keep the bulk barn bag inside your vacuum seal bags? The label looks perfect.

It is hard to tell but If you look close at the picture you can see I left the product in the bag so It had the stores name on it for future reference as to where I had bought it, but I cut the tops off the bag so the air could be sucked out, I put the label showing the weight, price and year bought on the bulk barn bag, then placed it inside the vacuum bag and sealed it up. This way the labels cant be rubbed, or fall off in storage, or such is my thinking.

Reading through this thread I can tell you as a front line employee of an essential retail service provider, that the front line staff you deal with are exhausted physically, mentally and emotionally.

Speaking only from my own experience so far, half our staff have either fled in fear of infection or just out right quit. So we're running with half the staff we had a month ago. Now you add in the all the Government Protocols and the work load has literally doubled so we're working longer hours with a lot less support. Reduced hours are unfortunately not an option.

Although food shelves in Manitoba are still relatively full, the supply chain has started to break down in respect to basic cleaning and paper products. Things like toilet paper, Lysol wipes, Lysol Spray, Hand Sanitizer, Baby Wipes, ect are virtually non-existent. They are ordered several times a week but the suppliers simply don't have them. As for Masks, whether your talking N95, Medical Grade 3 layer, or even just simple dust masks forget it, they are not available at all at the local level. Rubber Gloves however still seem to be readily available, although I doubt it will stay that way.

The only real advantage of being on the front lines of this thing is when stock comes in we get first shot at buying what ever we might need and as we are deemed essential service providers we are guaranteed our regular paychecks so we are not having to scramble for Government hand outs, at least not yet.

But we'll see how things play out. I fully expect we'll see greater shortages and much higher prices before this is over.

This is interesting. Anyone hear of feed shortages up here?
While not always valid, I have often found that what happens in the US, does trickle up here.

Those with farm animals may wish to place some orders.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/farmers-are-panic-buying-to-keep-america-e2-80-99s-95-million-cows-fed/ar-BB12jy9v

Way ahead of you on this curve.. we started seeing some feed issue when the rail lines where blocked, it eased some afterwards but we have had modify our feed orders the last three times, and so are many other people.. and now you order and only do curb side delivery..

6 weeks ago, I was in contact with local farmers booking and paying for a extra ton of barley, for sprouting, for green fodder, taking last years, booking in with the local down the way on planned going in crops and let me tell you there is some real debate happening on WTF to plant right now.

The price of corn per ton right now is so F'ing low that local farmers are putting seed orders on how, because when the math shakes out, if it stayed this low, they would LOSE 150 per acre.. and soybean.. 100 Loss per acre for average typical yields.. now if they get lucky.. (and weather wise who has been getting lucky, not our area) they might bring in higher yields to offset but do you take the risk?

Lots of barley, wheat and rye going in.. I have already booked in hay, but I have double booked in straw in massive amounts.. far more then I need for the "barn" needs but instead for the garden needs, ground cover, massive amounts of ground cover to plant down and though if I need it.. plus the third reason is simple, I need it to store what should be a extra ton of winter squash..

This is not news to those of us on the front lines.. but if they didn't get ahead of the curve they are going to be in for a surprise..

Anticipated hit to food production was obvious to a rock, so the usual blather about no food shortages like so many things is hogwash

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-meat-focus/elbow-to-elbow-north-america-meat-plant-workers-fall-ill-walk-off-jobs-idUSKCN21V0WM

I had mentioned a number of the links in the chain that would or could be seen to easily collapse. Be it hydro workers, finance, I.T., pharma, vulnerability to hacking, absence of police due to illness will result in increased crime.... only logical and therefor must be discussed and for ramifications to be factored into our preps. Impacts to fire or flooding will likely be felt, lots of hydro workers have been laid off, only one person per truck.... so productivity issues abound.

So what will this possible or highly likely shortage in meat look like? Besides increased price and scarcity?
Perhaps greater conflicts at stores fighting over the last few pork chops, theft of farm animals, discovering people hunting on your property...

“Rumour” has it, moose and deer hunting in ontario May be in jeopardy.

For things like a hack bringing down unemployment checks, a bank.., means that money / cash or bartering items will be key

Fun continues.

First, Thank you Seti for your post..

Second, I am seeing waves of shortages coming at us.. they will hit in different ways and times but they are coming! I am to tired this morning to dig out links, and posts and make a case..

I need to get back out into the gardens for another window of work between the cold heavy rains and the snow they are saying will be coming this afternoon.. Buds are swelling, I have to do a final push before they break..

I will come back to this.. but so SO many cracks showing.. some things I am waiting to see if we can mog-podg things together in a new and odd ways.. and for some things I think we can.. others.. hmm.. I am not so sure on..

I had an interesting chat today at the local feed / farm store (UFA).

Staff looked busy like ants on a mission, a tractor trailer just leaving the yard. Through small talks, I found out that they were overstocking the stores with a view of shutting down their warehouse operations. I don't know if this is going to be like that in a wide swath of stores, but full shelves now may be just hiding the problem.

So, I picked up a few extra things.

Heli, that’s interesting and makes sense for them to do. Exactly what you and any wise person is doing, get into your hands so you know it’s there. Basic preps.

I knew from past work that this breakdown in supply chain would occur. The human element and it’s many technical, medical, familial, religious, supply chain, organized crime, terrorism, monetary, energy, geopolitical or geographical links all come into play and in real fast fashion.

Unlike a localized event, larger events have the effect of paralyzing just about everything. Some of the things mentioned above have not manifested themselves yet but given time they certainly can and will.

Good article came out on impact to social assistance funds in the US and how the past months decline in revenue has shortened the fund by two years. Now I am not so interested in the exact numbers but it only stands to reason that pensions, Medicare.....are all taking a hit. While pension shortfalls in 2032 appear far off, once people start tweaking to not having a full pension, they may get testy and that then leads to political swings, increased borrowing, that then leads to inflation or devaluation of currency...

The immediate financial impact hasn’t even begun to be felt. It’s all happy talk about singing... and some piddly checks in the mail, but the debts and bankruptcy’s will be a huge wave to hit and hit hard it will. I most certainly do not mean to negate the need or value of the aid, but in truly real terms, it’s nowhere near enough and besides, it’s all borrowed money that someone will need to pay for in taxes.

There’s really no news on the TV highlighting the seriousness of this or the above supply chain issues. People can’t even get simple news on actual infection numbers, explanations on why seniors are being left to die in homes, where the heck are the PPEs for medical staff and ALL the other workers! No specifics, just babble talk about be strong... tell us dates for Masks, is it 250, 500K 1.5, 4 million masks and the blasted dates. No direct questions on guarantees on food delivery's on all the basics. Watched a story on local farmer indicate no issue with supply of flour and in theory it made sense, but I don’t see any at Walmart? Bulk barn has some but where’s the big volumes that a Walmart sells?

No, we best do as you did, see something you need, snag it if finances permit and think of what one may need for next fall, winter and spring NOW.

Clarence, ironically, you just answered your question there and I am also cause of the problem...

"Watched a story on local farmer indicate no issue with supply of flour and in theory it made sense, but I don’t see any at Walmart? Bulk barn has some but where’s the big volumes that a Walmart sells?

No, we best do as you did, see something you need, snag it if finances permit and think of what one may need for next fall, winter and spring NOW."

I saw a similar issue living in the USA with .22 ammo : none could be found ANYWHERE! Think Federal, Remington, etc stopped making ammo? No, it became an issue of hoarding and panic buying. Just like toilet paper a few weeks ago.

This is what is happening with flour. As an example, our family bakes quite a bit and cooks from scratch. We always have the equivalent of 2x 20Kg sacks of baking flour plus whole wheat and cake flour, that's our "baseline." When rumours of looming mandatory isolation came in, we went and bought another bag (limited more by storage capacity than anything else). How many people went and bought "just another one, just in case?" The end result led to empty shelves. Even though the supply chain remains capable of stocking, common folks are now scare of being left without and - as soon as they see a couple sacks left on a shelf - they feel that they must pick one up, leaving the shelves empty again. Repeat cycle.

Ok, I do have a few comments on the flour and other things, I am seeing them coming across my Ontario Farm Boards that I found interesting, this one point black about flour.

They were doing a interview to someone who grows and has a flour processing plant in our province.. she was talking about the fact that they normal ship in far different ways to the bakery's that make the bread, and so forth and that its not that she does have the grain or the place to grind the flour, its that she and others are needing to shift how they can process, package and move it into a different supply chain. It was written and very detail and data driven..

In a nut shell, they have the flour its a matter of getting it bagged differently, shipped differently and onto the store shelves in a packed form for the general public, that instead of buying bread, instead of eating out, instead of grabbing that fast soup and sandwich are at home and baking and cooking at home.

The same week we saw then talking about milk, I had no idea how much milk in those little tub were ordered and used for the breakfast programs, the lunch programs, the after school programs and the nursery schools! WOW let me tell that, its eye popping and those places have no way to just "shift" their production lines to milk jugs for the stores.. but the demand for the small and bigger of the white and chocolate milk.. dried right up..

Same again with the demand from so many normal places that use milk in so many ways.. even the company's that make the little coffee milk or creamers.. folks are staying home.. no demand, the places that use them.. closed.. Peaple who go out only once every 2 weeks are not buying enough milk to last them properly.. and they are changing their eating habits at home.. you can make the full breakfast, not the fast, bowl of this with milk do it yourself.

Eggs are being hit this way as well.. and most likely more but those are the ones I have read on.

Clarence, ironically, you just answered your question there and I am also cause of the problem...

"Watched a story on local farmer indicate no issue with supply of flour and in theory it made sense, but I don’t see any at Walmart? Bulk barn has some but where’s the big volumes that a Walmart sells?

No, we best do as you did, see something you need, snag it if finances permit and think of what one may need for next fall, winter and spring NOW."

I saw a similar issue living in the USA with .22 ammo : none could be found ANYWHERE! Think Federal, Remington, etc stopped making ammo? No, it became an issue of hoarding and panic buying. Just like toilet paper a few weeks ago.

This is what is happening with flour. As an example, our family bakes quite a bit and cooks from scratch. We always have the equivalent of 2x 20Kg sacks of baking flour plus whole wheat and cake flour, that's our "baseline." When rumours of looming mandatory isolation came in, we went and bought another bag (limited more by storage capacity than anything else). How many people went and bought "just another one, just in case?" The end result led to empty shelves. Even though the supply chain remains capable of stocking, common folks are now scare of being left without and - as soon as they see a couple sacks left on a shelf - they feel that they must pick one up, leaving the shelves empty again. Repeat cycle.

Agree wholeheartedly with your example of flour, but it still exposes Some weak links and that is production and delivery systems. For decades now, the System have been fine tuned to only produce X. Then there are exports. If we have lots and therefor export, will we reduce exports to help domestic demand? Maybe not. Politics get sticky with threats of trade wars, you cut me off, I cut you off.... exports of food from some nations is already occurring and while this bought of infection “may” be decking for now, I would guess nations are looking at the potential second and third waves and also what time of the year they occur.

I am no agri expert so haven’t a clue about where and when the food we eat is produced. I know tomatoes, peas and carrots aren’t grown in canada during the month of January but beyond that I have no real clue, so will the US restrict food from California this fall...to protect domestic access?

Some of my past life was spent on finding gaps in things and I had only touched on disruption of food delivery or tampering issues and never the actual “productions sources”, so sadly I am blind to this threat. Would love to learn from people on this board, what we may face in agri shortages due to why, who and when. That should help us anticipate and plan for fall and coming winter and maybe next spring.
This board is going to really show its strengths, while much has been discussed and learnt, we will need even more insights, hacks or work arounds. Will need quick answers to crop and preservation questions and I realize the world has a plethora of books and video, it’s still extremely nice to hear from people here on specific regions and the little things they do to beef things up. Because we look at it from a long term and more independent or natural point of view, the info is more valuable then some YouTube from a person in California or England playing in a city back yard.

Let’s rock and roll folks

Ok, I am just popping in.. I will try and answer some of this in more detail later..

But first, we do grow tomato's all winter long in many places in Canada including in Ontario, solar greenhouses for the win on that one.. cucumbers as well.. Quebec with its much lower power prices are looking at expanding this area already and are talking about it.

Back in the day, we were a powerhouse on this and we would send things to the east coast in the winter lol.. so it sure can be done, its just that the "global" supply chain and costs out of mexico brought in the cheaper goods and so people bought the cheaper and so on and so on.

We did lose some of our greenhouses over the past 5 to 10 years due to the power costs.. but the structures are still there, they are just used more 3 season then four.. but if you want to produce the food because its not being shipped out and over.. all Ford needs to do, is say.. you.. greenhouse owners.. discount winter rates and go.. and they will go indeed..

We don't have a massive pea growing but we can do it, we just got lazy.. but most pea's are served frozen or as part of a frozen packaging which is done very quickly after picking.. They are not something I would personally focus on,, they are treat.. not a staple. by that I mean the little green pea's.. not the dried massive pulse's and field pea's.. not the same thing at all.

As for carrots, we have a amazing carrot growers, they have gotten this crop to the point of planting, machine harvesting and larger packing, yes you need people but you do not need people in the same way as other more "hands on" crops.. We have both growers and processing/storage area's spread across Canada on this one.. While you will not find us growing Carrots in winter, you will be eating Ontario or Canadian carrots from our store houses.. Its one of the most staple foods that I never really have to worry about on the store shelves locally.. 99 percent of the time the stores only have Ontario carrots in them.. the odd time it will be from Quebec..

Carrots in the terms of buying the bags of fresh ones from the store be it the one pound, 3 pound or 10 pound bags are all "in house"..

As luck would have it, after many years of working on this, we just opened our first local farmer cold root cellar in the Ottawa area. talk about great timing!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/root-cellar-west-carleton-food-local-1.5357561

If this can prove itself, there are the blueprints and plans to get more of these into other area's and communitys so that the local farmers can grow and store and supply much closer to home.

There is more food growing under glass in Ontario then probably all of the US combined. Take a drive to Leamington sometime and see. And any of the big greenhouse growers in the US are most likely from Canada.

And if you can't be bothered driving there then just take a look with your third eye. 🙄 Sorry I only have 2 to roll.

Thanks for info farmgal and scrounger. Be nice to be self sufficient.
As to my third eye scrounger, it has a cataract and may need some work by a surgeon. I would ask the The wizard who lives in a tree on my property but he is in quarantine after visiting his aunt with the tin foil hat in Oz. All good here, hope to hear crownsown review on the non science, science in that movie.

Well wallyworld had a freezer failure the other day, lost all their dairy and meats. Having troubles getting it fixed, may call in freezer truck as temp fix.

Meat processors keep shutting down in the states and in canada so as predicted, all the invisible links are failing. Mother heard that in Quebec some fresh produce farmers are thinking of not planting strawberries and blueberries this year. Guessing other farmers will also rethink fresh produce if people are naturally avoiding it. One look at people de liberty coughing on produce in stores is enough to make one wonder about what happens before it gets to the store! Having worked on employee food tampering cases, I can easily see disgruntled employees striking out at an employer. All the built up animosity and other grievances will increase in scope and WILL impact food availability or quality