Now just by the title of this thread, you can assume that all conclusions will eventually be only the product of hypothesis and conjecture. And some on this forum often conclude that anarchy will rule everywhere and so it is every man for himself. I am sure that anarchy might indeed be a temporary event in some regions, but it is hard not to see that our government is taking steps to maintain control during any event, especially the obvious coming of an economic collapse.

My Guess on What's Ahead

So maybe we should first start with the basic assumption that our governments(US & Canada) seem to be preparing for social and economic collapse. This is denoted by the rewriting of our present laws to empower today's government to control you through the revoking of one's basic liberties in a democratic society. These changes are being presented simply as a means of thwarting terrorism, but we all can see little to no terrorism in Canada. Yet bills that failed to pass previously in our legislature are rammed through after such as the Marathon bombing and now France's shootings. Seems some are determined to have these personal rights revoked at any cost, I wonder why?

What many don't realize is that be moving these basic rights, we are then closer to a system of Fascism than that of a Democracy. Now the collecting of data on every person in North America for a years time allows alot of circumstantial evidence to be brought forth to maybe condemn anybody as any innocent comments (collected over a year's term) could then be misconstrued as showing disloyalty or provoking dissension. And yet they also seem to wish all citizens to feel as if Big Brother is watching their every step...(now go watch the movie 1984).

So if the US currency were to fail tomorrow, it seems that Canada would indeed be hurting too as 1/2 of Canada's reserve currency seems to be in US dollars. So in for a dime, in for a dollar! The obvious conclusion would be that US would soon start a new currency and the old would become toilet paper or fire starter.... and with all the reducing of our basic rights happening on both sides of the border, I'm guessing that this new currency would be called the Amero as previously planned out in the past to work like the Euro. I doubt if we'd have much say in opting out of this choice.

So if what I mention above is all true, we will find ourselves in a new world where all that we thought we owned has been reduced overnight. If you owed a cent on your home, do you think the mortgage holder will sympathize? He will repossess upon the letter of the law when you miss that 1st payment as he too will be trying to stay afloat in an unpredictable economy. Eventually, slum lords will reign and life will go on. Total anarchy didn't come to Russia when they faced economic, but the black market grew up overnight and while the balance of power may have shifted into others hands, there remained a semblance of order just the same.

Russia also faced incredible hyper inflation during the initial collapse. Seems the common number I find regarding such is tenfold... meaning that $3.00 loaf of bread becomes $30.00. That aspect alone would indeed take a bite out of a paycheck! I could see that many would perish simply from malnutrition alone. Other's would have to turn to crime and so crime would obviously escalate. The flaw of taking everyone's homes is that your government still wants to collect taxes. Some kind of compromise would allow for such infrastructure to take hold again, but the chances are that this new government would be corrupt far more fascist in design.

Now this is all on the premiss that we don't commit to another world war instead. It seems that this too is another possibility which could create lots of temporary employment for the adventurous who eagerly digest the hype of our daily news.

There are many factors with the states that could see it going off the rails. I don't know. I have faith in them. I think they're changing very quickly and not for the worse. I think the world is looking at them very differently now as well. We heavily depend on them economically via a multitude of industries and sectors, so I understand why you'd be talking about them so much.

I think we should really be talking about Alberta and this government though. I think they really botched it, followed a classic example of putting all your eggs in one basket. In an effort to sell off all assets as quick as possible and write off Ontario as a source of domestically produced income, and a partner in oil refining and production. They didn't want to make a hard choice of putting a pipeline going East, Harper assumed the USA would buy this stuff.

Guess what, no one wants to pay for this landlocked crap. And that's just what it is. It costs much more then gulf or shale oil and is hounded by bad press. Then you have the Albertan government, expected to take the hardest loss in 25-50 years. It's disgusting. I've heard there are already 10s of 1000s of jobs being dropped. Many projects dropped, or cut back drastically. Wait till the rest of Canada feels this...

We MUST look for alternative industries, even if it means jump starting them with government subsidies and grants, loans, etc. We used to be a manufacturing giant, and I understand much of this has changed for the same reason that China is so polluted, is that manufacturing is a dirty and toxic industry. I used to work in polyurethane factory, the plastic we made had to be much more environmentally friendly then the Chinese stuff. So it is hard to compete due to government regulation, which the majority of people support whether they realize it or not. At some point we gotta face this reality.

Optimism is a good trait but often comes with blinder attached. It's nice that you believe things are still fixable but this hand has already played out far too long and too much is committed to quit it seems. It's either collapse or war and maybe both unless someone folds their hand soon.

Many Canadians had stated all along that Free Trade would be the demise of our production industry and it seems they can dance and state they were right. How could we Canadians compete against American industrialization and China's near slave labour economy. Yet they went full steam ahead with no looking back as all our small industry fell in the waysides.

And as for Alberta, I lived through the first oilfield shutdowns and the effects indeed lasted years. The Heritage fund was a great buffer and saved them going deep into debt during this bad time. But a world depression has been predicted for along time and all the earmarks were there to even see it coming. Instead of balancing a countries economy with measures taken for such, most decided to leave those worries for others that followed as it was more profitable to ignore the problem.

I was an easterner that moved west during the boom and finally returned east when all the jobs died. I remember seeing 100's of folks living in tents set up in Princess Island Park in protest as they couldn't ind housing for those with no jobs and Alberta wanted them all to go back east now. For 23 years I listened to Albertan's blame the east for all their follies and often remember the continuous line that they should separate instead of Quebec.

And I don't mention this just to rile anyone....it's just that Alberta hadn't cared much when other provinces were doing bad and yet they knew eventually the tables always turn...always! The point is that Alberta can't expect the rest of Canada to help them when they have been in dire straits for years already. But we can rally together and recreate industry throughout the provinces by abolishing Free Trade and reinventing the web of small industry that we lost....but we won't!

Do you remember the Arien Nations (like the KKK) camp that was found along the US border just inside Canada back in the 80's? They had it set up like a military training camp and Canada didn't even shut it down for they proclaimed these hate-mongers had rights too. Later CSIS was first discovered because they brought forth evidence that the Conservative party was receiving donations from this camp. This detail of bribery was immediately lost in the fact that Canada had a spy agency that just showed themselves for this just cause. Seems they buried the story quickly with this discovery making headlines instead. It also seems that CSIS along with the RCMP now play for the other team....

Fast track to present day and here we are now funding such neo-fascists in Ukraine by this same political party. Just coincidence? The so is the fact that the Conservative party is now also imposing new laws to lead us into what can only consider to be a Fascist society. Yet I doubt Harper wants this world as much as he likely can't get free of the puppet strings the US have over him....

So I'd suggest working on that debt free aspect for yourself soon by downsizing or whatever else it takes. The oil patch may recover soon enough but he game in play won't stop many from losing all.

Man I hear you. I just read a ton of info about how everything is starting to slow down. Apparently China's economy has slowed to a crawl that hasn't been seen in 20 years. They are optimistic, but China has been known to lie about everything. It was predicted they eventually would though because as millions are dragged out of poverty the manufacturing keeps going province to province, we aren't hearing much about how many protests or wage increases there are, hostage taking etc. This is why our major corporations are turning to Bangladesh, who will gladly accept our business.

All in all, it seems pretty unpredictable. The IMF massively overestimated world economic growth for 2015/2016. I'm quoting all this stuff but I'm no expert, I'm just going off of what I've read. On the other hand no economist knows for sure what's going to happen.

And this brings us to what you were saying about nationalism, which the leftys in our country detest so much. I always thought that was funny, considering we have much a minimal percentage of people taking part in the vote. Imagine that, shunning nationalism and calling it evil in a country where everyone's to lazy to exercise their right to vote. Disgusting lack of pride.

Back to Nationalizing the economy, we have things many other "Nationalist" countries didn't. We got resources everything needs... AND NOTHING TO PROTECT THEM WITH.

It isn't talked about much on this board. Everyone's talking about the individual prepping speaking about how there's no point in prepping food shelter and resources if we don't have THE MEANS TO PROTECT IT. It makes me sick! These morons, who chastise the USA for having a massive military, yet claim we don't need one because they're here to protect us, much like a nagging wife would.

Well I'm disgusted with the way both arm-chair right winger and bleeding heart politically correct politics have hijacked common sense. We need to make a clear agenda with regards to historical fact and statistical data and prepare for the worst! Not sell everything were worth for dirt cheap and pay heed to every minimal social indignity and offense! Canada needs to PREP.

Did anyone ever tell you the story about "Chicken Little"? It's a bloody acorn!

What's Alberta going to do? Albertans are going to keep their heads down and work. That's what they did the last time, and the time before that. The ones who didn't know to save for this will learn for next time (you see, that's prepping). I'm not seeing panic in Alberta about the price of oil; I'm seeing it on the CBC, the Globe and Mail, and on Sun Media. Are people going to lose their jobs? Yes. Some are. They were looking for jobs when they found them here. Is all of this fair? Who ever told you that life was fair? It doesn't mean that this is the end...

Knuckle appears to be dating himself by referring to the Alberta of the early 80's and the NEP. Well, Marc Lalonde was trying to screw us. They are all gone now and we have moved on - even if Knuckle hasn't. Alberta's population has boomed since then with people from all over this country and beyond. Everyone's welcome so long as they are here to contribute.

Singlecell's insight into Alberta's economy is typical of your average Canadian who has never bothered to look further than mass media to form an opinion. While energy is our largest economic driver, we still have a huge agricultural industry. We log in the West and North, there are pot ash plays in the province, an excellent tourist trade, and a healthy manufacturing industry. Save your concern, we will be fine. We may have to cut back on our transfer contributions for a couple of years is all.

I guess the real question is, " AFTER WHAT??"

Well, by rights, if you'd read the thread's topic, it was to be about what would come after a SHTF scenario. I never considered that oil prices dropping are quite that dramatic as to qualify for this topic but I did play along anyways. The real point that I was hoping folks would eventually see is that no matter what crisis did occur, total anarchy is not a sustainable condition. There will be laws set in place by one group or another. The video suggests that even when people rise up against their present government, how do they know that the next government they help put in place will be any better? Seems that is exactly what happened with the people of Ukraine, is it not? Do you not think many likely now wish they could turn the clock backwards and do things different?

Now if some took the time to maybe better consider my comments, I was trying to show the futility of finger pointing which has occurred in the past and achieved nothing. Finger pointing is an attempt to pass on the blame as one often does this to profess they are free of blame. In the end, this technique only creates division and does nothing to resolve the problem at hand. Albertan's have done this in the past and this is what then fuels division amongst the people. You only have to follow this thread to see that such east/west divisions can reignite tempers now as they did then.

Now Singlecell mentioned that Alberta shouldn't have ignored Ontario and they should have been making the pipeline go east instead to supply the rest of Canada first. In this way, Canada could better work together in coming tough times.... this was a great point and one we should now be reconsidering. His next mention as to why we are not is directed at Harper, another decent observation. You can't fix a problem until you see the problem.....

Seems Canada's first steps should be to try and prepare for the obvious bad times coming and maybe now is as good a time as any. Building the pipeline would create many needed jobs and be a precautionary measure in case the flow of oil becomes unreliable in the future. How can self sustainability hurt Canada in the future? It can't and therefore should be a priority in our legislature. Instead our government is following in the footsteps of the US totally and revoking individual's rights instead....you at least aughta be wondering why by now.....

Well, by rights, if you'd read the thread's topic, it was to be about what would come after a SHTF scenario. I never considered that oil prices dropping are quite that dramatic as to qualify for this topic but I did play along anyways. The real point that I was hoping folks would eventually see is that no matter what crisis did occur, total anarchy is not a sustainable condition. There will be laws set in place by one group or another. The video suggests that even when people rise up against their present government, how do they know that the next government they help put in place will be any better? Seems that is exactly what happened with the people of Ukraine, is it not? Do you not think many likely now wish they could turn the clock backwards and do things different?

Now if some took the time to maybe better consider my comments, I was trying to show the futility of finger pointing which has occurred in the past and achieved nothing. Finger pointing is an attempt to pass on the blame as one often does this to profess they are free of blame. In the end, this technique only creates division and does nothing to resolve the problem at hand. Albertan's have done this in the past and this is what then fuels division amongst the people. You only have to follow this thread to see that such east/west divisions can reignite tempers now as they did then.

Now Singlecell mentioned that Alberta shouldn't have ignored Ontario and they should have been making the pipeline go east instead to supply the rest of Canada first. In this way, Canada could better work together in coming tough times.... this was a great point and one we should now be reconsidering. His next mention as to why we are not is directed at Harper, another decent observation. You can't fix a problem until you see the problem.....

Seems Canada's first steps should be to try and prepare for the obvious bad times coming and maybe now is as good a time as any. Building the pipeline would create many needed jobs and be a precautionary measure in case the flow of oil becomes unreliable in the future. How can self sustainability hurt Canada in the future? It can't and therefore should be a priority in our legislature. Instead our government is following in the footsteps of the US totally and revoking individual's rights instead....you at least aughta be wondering why by now.....

I read your post's title. I read yours and SC's musings. The reason I asked, "After what???" is that I believe that the assumptions made are absurd. I don't subscribe to the massive SHTF scenarios which you and others love day dreaming about. Instead, I believe that the shit will hit the fan for you (not you specifically, but generally), and what will come after is something like several rounds of chemotherapy, months of unemployment, or a daughter who stays shacked up with some loser named "Spider" until he finally hits her so hard is shakes her fillings loose, or something similarly mundane but no less serious to you.

I also don't buy into SC's assumptions about Canada's and Alberta's economy. They seem too simplistic. Alberta didn't "build a pipeline East" because Alberta is not in the business of building pipelines. Private corporations build pipelines. Their decisions where to build pipelines are based on business models which consider the demand, capacity to refine, amount of controversy from special interest, and market price of the product on the other side of the pipeline.

And it is to such shallow thoughts as yours that nothing ever gets done. You say that pipelines can only be built by governments? That reckoning is obviously wrong as many governments have decided such things without private investment. Did Canada not originally start into building the Petro Canada gas company in this same manner? It's just that now our government doesn't interfere with the profits of the oil companies these days as they are owned by those who presently control our governments polices....

Now even you Antsy, must have heard many of the predictions made that this oil price drop was coming. So therefore even you must have a portion of that inflated ego that is whispering to you that we are all being played with and that aspect should even make you antsy (so to speak) 😮 . Yet you proclaim all should ignore the obvious escalation of arms buildup in and around Ukraine and simply act as if they were predictable and of little consequence to our lives here in Canada.....yup, that is indeed shallow and weak! But then if that were true, you'd not be coming to a forum such as this either, so I'm betting that your just blowing air up your own butt on this one when proclaiming all is quiet on the western front.

And it is to such shallow thoughts as yours that nothing ever gets done. You say that pipelines can only be built by governments? That reckoning is obviously wrong as many governments have decided such things without private investment. Did Canada not originally start into building the Petro Canada gas company in this same manner? It's just that now our government doesn't interfere with the profits of the oil companies these days as they are owned by those who presently control our governments polices....

Now even you Antsy, must have heard many of the predictions made that this oil price drop was coming. So therefore even you must have a portion of that inflated ego that is whispering to you that we are all being played with and that aspect should even make you antsy (so to speak) 😮 . Yet you proclaim all should ignore the obvious escalation of arms buildup in and around Ukraine and simply act as if they were predictable and of little consequence to our lives here in Canada.....yup, that is indeed shallow and weak! But then if that were true, you'd not be coming to a forum such as this either, so I'm betting that your just blowing air up your own butt on this one when proclaiming all is quiet on the western front.

"You say that pipelines can only be built by governments?" Did I write that???

"It's just that now our government doesn't interfere with the profits of the oil companies these days as they are owned by those who presently control our governments polices...." Who do you imagine owns the oil companies? Well, I own shares in MEG, Suncor (the old Petro Can), Cenovus (the old AEC) and a few pipeline companies. I don't believe that I "control" government policy; my inflated ego is not that large.

Markets go up and down; I expect that. The conventional wisdom would suggest that one should buy when companies and products are cheap and sell when they are dear. So you see Chicken Little, the sky is not necessarily falling.

I should have guessed that the situation in Ukraine would come up. Those folks happen to have the same skin colour as you so the situation is somehow more relevant than say, Sudan? Syria? Mexico? Shallow and weak indeed! You see conspiracy everywhere you look and believe that forces are actively acting against you. In your mind, you have the "truth" and will single handedly show this prepper community "the way". This is evidenced in the number of posts you have made in the short time you have been trolling this board.

"I'm betting that your (sic) just blowing air up your own butt on this one when proclaiming all is quiet on the western front." I don't speak for the entire Western front. I believe that I wrote that I was not personally hearing panic, and that my peers were focused on work. I'm happy to book the bet. There is a sucker born every minute.

There are many things happening throughout the world and the topic of oil seems to have front row these days. I pointed out the logic of another's suggestion that we should indeed be building a pipeline to the east as a precaution and to enable Canadians to share resources. You have done nothing but vent crap without any creative thinking to offset the negative response. That's non productive and it's that type of thinking that always has folks doing little to nothing to fix or move forward. You seem to never have alternatives to improve upon another's comments, just sarcastic criticisms towards others suggestions. I'm guessing that you alot of fun at a party.......... I've concluded this thread botched anyways!

There are many things happening throughout the world and the topic of oil seems to have front row these days. I pointed out the logic of another's suggestion that we should indeed be building a pipeline to the east as a precaution and to enable Canadians to share resources. You have done nothing but vent crap without any creative thinking to offset the negative response. That's non productive and it's that type of thinking that always has folks doing little to nothing to fix or move forward. You seem to never have alternatives to improve upon another's comments, just sarcastic criticisms towards others suggestions. I'm guessing that you alot of fun at a party.......... I've concluded this thread botched anyways!

I think that I've improved on the previous comments. I've shown where the thinking was shallow and misinformed. I've shown that the sky was not, in fact, falling. And I have proposed an alternative set of SHTF scenarios which are both more realistic, and more likely. That's how we get folks moving forward! With their eyes open and their minds grounded in reality. As for a party; I'm a riot! (I just party with smarter people).

Markets go up and down; I expect that. The conventional wisdom would suggest that one should buy when companies and products are cheap and sell when they are dear. So you see Chicken Little, the sky is not necessarily falling.

I should have guessed that the situation in Ukraine would come up. Those folks happen to have the same skin colour as you so the situation is somehow more relevant than say, Sudan? Syria? Mexico? Shallow and weak indeed! You see conspiracy everywhere you look and believe that forces are actively acting against you. In your mind, you have the "truth" and will single handedly show this prepper community "the way". This is evidenced in the number of posts you have made in the short time you have been trolling this board.

I don't get the leap...Shallow and weak because he brought up Ukraine? huh? implying skin colour the motivator for the subject? Its a leap to far...I would wear my finger out trying to type the historical importance to that piece of geography, and area. The efforts of nations trying to control that region can be found in any textbook..and such efforts have not stopped, or do you think they have? Its a proxy conflict with nothing but down side for everyone..and trying to corner a bear will have greater potential consquences than anything in Sudan...
Proposing a narrative thats different than the accepted, or conventional is hardly trolling. How different from conventional/accepted is a sliding scale for everyone who views it, but its hardly going to the extream from what I have read, and frankly I don't mind someone pointing out the increasing loss of liberties through legislation..it should be pointed out more often, or would that be trolling to you?
(all question are purely rhetorical )

Antsy- "Instead, I believe that the shit will hit the fan for you (not you specifically, but generally), and what will come after is something like several rounds of chemotherapy, months of unemployment, or a daughter who stays shacked up with some loser named "Spider" until he finally hits her so hard is shakes her fillings loose, or something similarly mundane but no less serious to you".

That I cant disagree with, but why such a short list? Car crash...Slip and fall on Ice smashing the back of your head in, chainsaw accident, back injury, a reassessment by revenue Canada!!

I don't get the leap...Shallow and weak because he brought up Ukraine? huh? implying skin colour the motivator for the subject? Its a leap to far...I would wear my finger out trying to type the historical importance to that piece of geography, and area. The efforts of nations trying to control that region can be found in any textbook..and such efforts have not stopped, or do you think they have? Its a proxy conflict with nothing but down side for everyone..and trying to corner a bear will have greater potential consquences than anything in Sudan...
Proposing a narrative thats different than the accepted, or conventional is hardly trolling. How different from conventional/accepted is a sliding scale for everyone who views it, but its hardly going to the extream from what I have read, and frankly I don't mind someone pointing out the increasing loss of liberties through legislation..it should be pointed out more often, or would that be trolling to you?
(all question are purely rhetorical )

Antsy- "Instead, I believe that the shit will hit the fan for you (not you specifically, but generally), and what will come after is something like several rounds of chemotherapy, months of unemployment, or a daughter who stays shacked up with some loser named "Spider" until he finally hits her so hard is shakes her fillings loose, or something similarly mundane but no less serious to you".

That I cant disagree with, but why such a short list? Car crash...Slip and fall on Ice smashing the back of your head in, chainsaw accident, back injury, a reassessment by revenue Canada!!

Hey Peppercorn,

You didn't get the leap because there wasn't one. The text was written in response to Knuckle's accusation, "And it is to such shallow thoughts as yours...", and ,"Yet you proclaim all should ignore the obvious escalation of arms buildup in and around Ukraine and simply act as if they were predictable and of little consequence to our lives here in Canada.....yup, that is indeed shallow and weak!" (straw man and personal insult)

The use of the same text in my post was supposed to demonstrative that my reasoning was not, in fact, shallow or weak. Similarly, I tried to point out that Knuckle's infatuation with the situation in Ukraine, while important, is not less so than similar ongoing conflicts elsewhere in the world. I then suggested that his tireless attention to this single conflict is based on a Western-centric bias (ie: same skin colour and cultural background). I would contend that if that is in fact the case, it is a "shallow" point of view.

As to the subject of trolling; I'm referring to what I feel is a general tone of Knuckles countless posts in a number of areas all related to anti-west, anti-Isreal, and pro East block rhetoric. I've read a number of members who have tried to engage Knuckles in discussion and ultimately give up because of his debate tactics; by which I mean ignoring the points and criticism of opposing views and replying with fallacious arguments such as straw men, and ad hominum quips. If you want examples I'm sure I can provide them from even this thread and every other one where someone disagreed with his reasoning or sources.

Finally, I am happy to cede the point that the list of more probable and realistic calamities is much longer than I introduced. It gives me chills to think that I may one day fall under the scrutiny of Revenue Canada. I'd rather take my chances with cancer.

You might instead ask, "Then why take Knuckles to task? You know that he doesn't debate his views in a fair way. Why not just ignore him?"

In answer, "I tried".

I took a six month break from the network, ignored any topic that he started or was active in, and tried to give him a wide berth. It's just that it galls me to see a fellow monopolize so much of the forum that I enjoy with unsubstantiated, conspiracy driven nonsense. It galls me further that when called to account, he moves his detritus to completely unrelated subject groups and pollutes the conversation there. Lastly, I worry that Canadian Preppers will be wrongly painted by one mans' brush simply because he has the time to make 1200+ posts a year where more moderately opinioned members choose only to post when they know what they are talking about or have legitimate questions.

I'm not saying that Knuckles has no place here. His motivations seem pure enough and I believe that his life experience is probably valuable to many members of this forum. What I am saying is that if you read a post by someone who is talking trash and doesn't know what he is talking about, you have an obligation to shut it down. I'm not going to challenge Knuckles' views about Ukraine... I don't approve of his sources but it's not my place to challenge him because I don't know the history or situation well enough. Where I feel my own understanding of a topic is well grounded I will make comment. Where I see bullshit argument tactics, I will call it out.

That's it for me here Peppercorn. Agree, disagree; it's none of my business. I just wanted to let you know where I am coming from.

Keep your stick on the Ice.

Okay. I got friends in the oilsands who say everyone is freaked. It sounds like a big deal.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-finances-the-worst-in-25-even-50-years-premier-says-1.2895912

http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/10/the-most-serious-financial-circumstances-we-have-seen-in-this-province-in-25-years-if-not-50-prentice-dire-on-alberta-oulook-after-oil-crash/

That's your premier who said that. Not the CBC. Sure you'll survive, you might even do better then everyone else. I'm not ganging up on Alberta, so relax man, Alberta was always my last resort if nothing came through in Ontario, so I dare not talk shit.

My response SEEMED simple because the the concept of selling our resources(NOTE: OIL IS BUT ONE.) to other countries as fast as possible is pretty simple in itself. My point is we will be stronger if we work together more, to keep the money inside Canada. You get me? Why feed that bottomless pit, China not just oil, but lumber, coal and gas? I brought up a variety of issues that conflict with why we can't bring all manufacturing and processing through Ontario, much of which has to do with government legislation, but that is also what the people want, unfortunately. Southern Ontario would descend into another smog hole. So what are our options? Maybe we should put some on the table! Let's hear it!

You talk about financial responsibility??? Lets play the laws of capitalism then? When your product starts to decrease in value in a world where it will eventually become obsolete why wouldn't you save and invest in new and alternative sources of energy, with literally hundreds of reasons to? When something slows down or stops altogether, you take a good clear look as to why that is and you make plans so it doesn't happen again!

Why aren't we leading the world in railway infrastructure? Why aren't we pouring serious money into solar powered roadways and sidewalks? What's going to happen if we don't invest in these things? Were going to go out of business, and maybe devoured later on in this century when real behemoths decide we have too much of what they don't.

Get aggravated if you want. I was thankful this discussion was created to talk about some seriously important sh!t. I do thank you for putting an opposing point of view into the discussion and I hope you're right. All these years though of Harper trying to persuade the US to take this stuff, INCLUDING posting DESPERATE advertisements about being Americas best friend all over Washington DC subway system, yet Obama still hasn't budged. You'd think people would take a hint, yet you "Still Keep your heads down and WORKWORKWORK"