During Hurricane Katrina, there were some who decided to bug in.

The high ground which escaped flooding consisted of older commercial districts and parts of residential New Orleans. The deciding factors were loss of power and water/sewage. Many people neglected to clean out their fridges and freezers, which resulted in rotting foodstuffs in the first 24 hours.

Most people have no experience living without toilets and running water. This was the breaking point for many who tried to bug in. They couldn't cope with having to make alternatives to functioning toilets. Not to mention there was no garbage removal, which results in a rapid infestation of vermin and possible cholera outbreaks.

For more information see some of the online accounts of Katrina survivors.

I sympathize with those who live in the cities and have no options available to bug out during a crisis. I sometimes consider this aspect as all my 3 kids have moved back to the city. I warn them to have a bug out plan and be 1st out the door by paying attention to current events. I have bought various items for each of them and grandkids too for camping out as I don't know if they'd buy them and maybe put such things off until later. I even give them dehydrated food stores for backup too. They all agree to head my way a 1st signs of trouble and just call it a holiday if the threat peters out... but saying it and doing it are 2 different things!

I like the thought process and organizational layout in the way that Che presents her case. I'm betting she approaches things her preps in that same manner. I agree with her comments fully and hope they help some to change their minds or at least put greater forethought into how they prepare for urban survival in a bad situation. Well done Che!

Just thought i'd mention that Che is a guy, well-trained and well-organized , for sure, as he passes on his skills and perspective to hundreds of others, regularly.
Good on you knuckle, for keeping the door open for your kids far away.

Just thought i'd mention that Che is a guy, well-trained and well-organized , for sure, as he passes on his skills and perspective to hundreds of others, regularly.
Good on you knuckle, for keeping the door open for your kids far away.

My bad! Now watch me open my mouth to change feet.... 😮 😕 😎

-> Your proximity to people directly correlates with your ability to survive. This means that being in a major city surrounded by millions of people at a certain stage of a disaster greatly decreases your chances of survival.

Having re-read my post I'd like to elaborate on this point a little more. My intention was to point out that being around many people in a 'shtf' situation could be bad rather then would be. I'm going to re-phrase this to outline the fact that it's not so much the numbers of people as it is the types of people. With that said being in a major city surrounded by millions of 'unprepared' people at a certain stage of a disaster greatly decreases your chances of survival. This could hold true for only a handful of unprepared people as well, however, it's important to note that some people may be willing to assist and help from a community perspective in any way possible for the greater good. We must also account for the strength in numbers philosophy which I'm strongly for. This is one of the reasons why networking with other like-minded individuals is so important now. I've seen so many preppers that are stuck in the 'lone ranger' bubble thinking they can do everything themselves. I'm sure most of them can. Eventually some come to the realization that there are far too many benefits with respect to connecting with the 'right' people beforehand.

If people still think that 'bugging in' is the only card their going to play then I would like to hear more as to why considering what I've outlined in this thread.

I was just typing up a response and I see you have moderated your stand...Bugging in no problem I would roll with that......I ofcourse live in the country just cause I dont like most people but if I was in the city I would feel fine about it.

I will challenge this idea that you have to flee.....I cant finish this thought right now as it just takes to much time, and I will co-ordinate with a bud or two in the city to get permision to show just what can be done when you put your attention to being all in.....and if they let me take pic's your jaws will drop... Its never about one way or the other, be prepared and play what your dealt...If your in a city one step at a time, and start doing stuff, you will find a way. Unless you are all set up with some where else to go, and face it, its harder and harder for people to afford multiple properties, we cant all have a city home and a country home. Good on you if you do, but for the rest consider yourself "all in" and see what you can do...stay away from utube.., I say those who always put there attention to running away likely havent put a lot of thought to staying.

I unfortunately have to work in Toronto. I live north of the city (1 hour) and my cottage is another hour. My dilemma is, getting home to grab the family to go to the cottage. I am Valle of hunkering down for aome time at my home. However, if the shtf, the best scenario is going further north. I like the idea of less population first off... And the fact that I have a better range of view for potential intruders. Now science I am adding a wind turbine to the solar array I have, it will be completely off of the grid. However, that will be a huge attractant to people searching for survival. I guess having thousands of ammo will come in handy... But, how long can I keep that up,for? I'm also experimenting with some of the hydrogen motors for generators, however, still back to square one. Everyone will be trying to come and get my goods since I am living as nothing is wrong.

I also like the idea that there is pleanty of firewood around and I have many bodies of water around. Including running water body,which can be utilized for hydro electricity ( yet another project on the go) just have to figure out how to elude mnr... The scenarios are endless. I could go on as I am sure we all can.

I wouldn't be thinking about "bugging in" if I was in Toronto. Because if the new Madrid fault goes it won't matter what preparations you make. They won't help you. Location location location.

And I smile quietly as I ponder that Toronto is 1,200 miles south of me... the only fault line is the fault that there is only 1 paved road up here...ya want more ya must learn how to break trail!

cool, always wanted to go north but just for a visit. I'm in a pretty nice place. Hopefully a safe place when TSHTF. Nice to meet you. I'm Tony.

I say those who always put there attention to running away likely havent put a lot of thought to staying.

If you had bothered to read my original post on the matter then you would concede that leaving may be the only logical answer. You can think about staying in as much as you as want however, circumstances beyond your control may force you to bug out - regardless of where you live. Theses points were already outlined previously in this thread. Placing focus on bugging out and exploring the idea in every respect is a smart thing that all preppers should be entertaining.

Your right. In fact all the prepping in the world can't predict the future and one day all your preps might be destroyed so it's not a matter of not reading the whole thing. It's only what was commented on. Also to emphasize that anywhere I'm Toronto will not survive if the new Madrid fault goes. Toronto will be washed into the Gulf of Mexico.

One thing I read a while ago that I think rings true for anyone "bugging in", particularly in an urban or suburban environment. The author(s) stated that you should be prepared to remain in isolation for the first week. That means no venturing outside, no starting up the gennie outside, no wood stoves, nothing that will draw attention to your presence. This self imposed quarantine will help you avoid detection during the initial period of panic.
Perhaps this tactic will help provide a non-confrontational answer to other thread on this forum about what to do when friends come calling on you. Stay locked down, don't answer the door. If they don't go away and attempt to break in, then they probably weren't friends anyway. If there are people who you truly want to include in your inner isolation circle then provide them with a means of contact (two way radio, code word at the door, special knock, whatever).
So, this post is longer than I wanted it to be, but you get the idea. Ask yourself if you have the means to live quietly and totally in place for a week.

I still think the theme of this thread is for those that have no choice but to stay bugged-in in Toronto.
While not ideal, some may have no choice. So they need ideas of what to do and how to plan, etc.

Underprepared makes some good points in that post to remain in hidden isolation for the first week.

Some great points have been put forward.

Just my 2 cents to add to think about: you may not be able to leave or stay depending on what happens - look at ice storms, Siege of Sarajevo, the Shanghai ghetto, FEMA with Hurricane Katrina, forest fire.

I think a person needs to be flexible just in case. Often if you wait too long you have no choice if you ever had a choice at all. I have read stories of people from FEMA coming in and removing people that where prepared. I have spoken to someone about what it was like living in Sarajevo during the Siege. I know (knew may she rest in peace) that lived in the Shanghai ghetto. The 2 people from the siege and the ghetto seemed to do better (okay better might not be the right word) then others as they are flexible to their situations. Sorry I am not sure I am coming across the way I mean to.