I already know what most will say about staying in the city in case of disasters, I have already seen your comments, no thanks 🙂

This made me guffaw.
Nice to see you're open to discussion.

Be interesting to see who else believes this approach is preferable.

For myself... there are many cities i'd consider bugging-in, in. However, Toronto (and any others of 1M+ people) definitely don't make the list.

I am open to discussing staying in the city, already discussed to death the benefits of leaving the city 🙂

I am open to discussing staying in the city, already discussed to death the benefits of leaving the city 🙂

Well, maybe you could start the thread off in that direction then... post what you believe are the benefits that staying in the city provides which are more important/desirable than those provided by leaving the city, and people could pick up from there if they have more to add.

I'm hoping to speak with those who currently live in Toronto and have plans to stay in their homes with their families.

I think there will be huge numbers of people that could not leave the city, so another idea
is to talk about things you will want / need to do to stay in TO, strategies, equipment, etc.

keeo in mind, i do live a half hour outside of the city, but most people leaving the city will be traveling past my home in search for their "ideal" location where they may feel safe.

for the most part, the wife and i are bugging in.
a pro.... our family will be able to rendevouz at our house. we then have strength in numbers and knowing our neighbourhood and surrounding areas, we could survive the initial onslaught of chaos.

canadas biggest challenge will/would be our climate. be it in the summer or winter, lots of challenges

i think bugging in or out would depend on the weather. two feet of snow and no road crews and i dont think many people will be going anywhere!!!!!

I live in the city, just a few minutes north of U of Toronto. And no, I won't be leaving the city. I will be hunkering down and laying low.

I've seen the snarling traffic during the weekend, and also during rush hour. No thanks, I'm not going to sit with 2.5 million sheep fleeing north (prepper or non-prepper) when SHTF. My condo is a fortress. I can't be reached from street level, and there are 2 other prepper families/tenants in my building. Our old 1960's doors are more than 80 lbs of hardwood. There are very few scenarios that will require us to leave, and if that were the case, then yes, we do have a bugout location with survival caches.

I am always on the lookout for networking with other local preppers.

I don't live in Toronto but I do live in a city 1million + . I too will be bugging in.... or at least stay put for as long as is possible. Where would we go that others haven't thought of? We do not have it in our budget to make a "bunker" in the hills. NOr is it feasable for us to "move to the country" Since our jobs require us to be in town...I want to still enjoy my life and that requires me to find a balance when I prep. So we prep to stay put and learn to defend ourselves. We prep for the possible shtf scenarios and not for TEOTWAWKI, Is it perfect? nope, but it's better than the average Joe/Jane and may give us an advantage to recover quicker.

I work in concord and live an hour NE of the the city. My wife and kids half to bug in till I get home. After that plan b or c. Ill be one of a million trying to get home fleeing the city. I work afternoons for a reason. Getting north of hwy 9 is my priority. Our current living situation wouldn't be safe after a few days if the grid was down. Good luck in the city. And yes were looking for a better location

I live just north of toronto in brampton. I am planing to bug in unless its real bad . I am working on plan b and c now
If you like pm and we can talk.

Unfortunately Toronto Urban Preppers meetup group is dead and other Ontario-based groups are all about leaving the city and their get-togethers are never in the city.

There are plently of pepper-related events in the city. In fact most events are held in the city. Check out Meet-up and search 'survival' or 'prepper' for any number of different groups. And I'm sure that after reading this post the idea of 'bugging-out' will seem more attractive to you.

I am open to discussing staying in the city, already discussed to death the benefits of leaving the city 🙂

There are three major factors that affect whether or not you should 'bug-in' or 'bug-out' which should be taken into account above everything else:

1. The nature of the disaster (EMP? Viral Pandemic? Financial Collapse?)
2. The stage of the disaster (1 day? 3 months?)
3. The severity of the disaster (Moderate Concern? Chaos?)

With all do respect - in reality people that automatically have a default position or stance of simply 'bugging in' are likely in one of the two following scenarios (in most cases both):

-> They have no place to go
-> They have all there stores/resources with them at their house

This doesn't apply to living in a rural location in a self-reliant manner (as much) as this is the best position a prepper can be in. If something occurs your concerns derive from your ability to secure your location, health (psychological and physical) and awareness of what's going on around you - I'll save these details for another post, however, in most cases bugging in would likely be the smartest move if you've already established a homestead far away from people.

For 'new' preppers and preppers that live in an urban environments the nature, stage and severity of the disaster will determine (for you) whether or not you should 'bug-in' or 'bug-out'.

For example:

On day 1 of an EMP that has disabled everything nationally with respect to electronics 'bugging-out' to a rural location where you can disappear for year is your best course of action.

On day 4 of a provincial blackout then 'buggin-in' and having a large BBQ on the street with all your neighbors freezer meats is practical.

A blackout would change your decision to stay depending on the stage. If it's a post-2-month blackout then leaving to a more secure location would likely be called for.

Other factors, such as your physical/mental state, your capacity to travel (vehicle/foot/bike), distance to travel in addition to the resources you have on hand also come into play. This also accounts for the people you intend on taking with you.

While this is a purely subjective decision we can apply some logic to the process. To say you're simply going to 'bug-in' is irrelevant as the nature and severity of the disaster will determine that decision for you.

I'd love to chat with others living in Toronto who plan on staying in their homes.

I already know what most will say about staying in the city in case of disasters, I have already seen your comments, no thanks 🙂

Let me paint a few 'realistic' scenarios that may change your mind:

1. It's week 3 during a viral pandemic. When you look out your window you can see your neighbors blood shot eyes as he's hacking a way. It's obvious that the pandemic is in your immediate surroundings. He's heading towards your door in the hopes that you have some food because he 'needs' to feed his family.

2. It's just over 3 months after a blackout and all you head is gun shots, breaking glass and screaming throughout the night.

3. Scenario 'X' (financial collapse, emp, etc. - 3 months post - whatever). Large gangs of thugs with weapons go door to door looking for resources and assault and/or kill anyone that they come across. Eventually they will come to your door.

The last scenario of the 3 is inevitable. Inevitable meaning it will happen regardless of the disaster. While I commend you for your dedication in wanting to 'bug-in' regardless of the scenario my recommendation is to atleast have a plan for bugging-out. This is, of course, unless you have a militia with a lot weapons, ammunition, resources and a solid shelter.

Part of the problem of disasters isn't so much about the disaster as it is about the people around you that are un-prepared. The logic in some respects can be quite simple:

-> People will potentially become a large problem regardless of any disaster. This is to say that they will go to barbaric measures to forcibly take resources away from you. History has proven this over and over again. Physical assaults would be common.

-> Your proximity to people directly correlates with your ability to survive. This means that being in a major city surrounded by millions of people at a certain stage of a disaster greatly decreases your chances of survival.

One solution is to have the capacity to live off the land or at a safe location away from the masses. Hence 'Bugging out' - but again this is purely subjective and completely dependent on the nature, stage and severity of the disaster.

Che managed to express my concerns with a single-minded, exclusionary stance far more eloquently than i could.

Having more time to reflect on your position and taking time away from work I've decided to explore and elaborate on some thoughts I've had for some time now on 'Bugging-in'. If you (or anyone else) is that determined to bug in - in an urban setting I'll stick with my original comment that it's likely because you have no where to go and you have too many resources to take with you.

So, let's explore this further and let's assume we're in a scenario where we have thugs on the street breaking into houses for resource acquisition purposes. This also assumes you have some preps - namely food, water, the capacity to stay warm (shelter).

Ok, you're bugging-in regardless of what happens in your house/apartment/condo/whatever...let's start right there...

If you don't change anything to where you're bugging-in then you might as well dress up in a deer costume and run around a field during hunting season because you will be an obvious target. So, what are your options?

Play the Victim Card - Smash a few windows. Take your personal possessions and liter them on your lawn. Ransack the inside of your place to make it look like you've been victimized. Live, eat and breath while constantly hiding. If you're really creative then get some unofficial government of Canada bio-hazard stickers and place them on your door. I would also entertain the dead carcus of an animal at your entrance to ward people away.

The problem with playing the victim card:

You will need a place to hide
You will need a place to hide your resources
You will have to be quiet while you contend with 'criminals' that will entered your premises and allow them to look through your things.
Your day to day actions will have to be conducted in secrecy (For example: any food you cook will have to be done in a manner in which the smell/scent cannot be detected in your immediate surroundings.

Play the Security Card - Board up your windows. Have a 24/7 watch for criminals with access control points. Have your gun ready at all times.

The problem with playing the security card:

You will have to be on constant guard
Criminals will know that you have resources as a result of taking a defensive stance and will likely take extra measures to take over your location
You will attract unwanted attention
You may have to kill people

If criminals can't take over your location they may resort to simply lighting your place on fire. This means that all your resources (and possibly your life) will be 'done'. This might be a good time to mention that fires may very well be rampant throughout the cities anyways in which your location is also 'done'. If you don't have military people on your side then all it will take is more bullets and more people to take over your location.

Government Intervention Card - This isn't a card that you play. This is one that the government plays on you and you won't have a choice.

The problem with playing the government card:

Lose complete control of your well-being
Lose complete control of your security and safety
Reliant on entity for food, fire, water, shelter (life)
Human rights violations
Restricted freedoms (Incapacity to move freely or at will)

The government will cattle people up and place them all in one location whether it be a community center or stadium. Human violations will take place in this scenario of the most disgusting kind.

Realistically these are the only three options you have if you decide to 'bug-in' in the scenario I've outlined. I suppose you could play card #1 while card #3 is also being played only to resort to card #2 in due time (and any other combination thereof) although at the end of the day it is a game that you would be playing with a very slim chance of a positive outcome or 'winning' hand.

Nevertheless, let's explore the benefits as it seems to me that the benefits of 'bugging-in' is one of the things that you're focusing on with respect to this thread.

-> One benefit that I can think of would be the capacity or true understanding of knowing what's going on with respect to the disaster from a 'ground zero' perspective.

-> In the event that you're able to secure your location you will have secured your personal possessions, resources and the integrity of where your live.

-> The people and grounds around you will be familiar. You will already know (to some extent hopefully) some of your neighbors, stores (resources) and routes immediately around your property.

That's all I can think of although would be happy to entertain anything that comes to anyone's mind.

It's my opinion that the benefits of 'bugging-in' are dire at best compared to the negativity and preparation that you will more then likely have to contend with in an urban setting. The truth of the matter is that if a disaster gets bad enough then leaving your location will be an obvious choice and something that I'm hoping you'll entertain considering the clear and logical points I've outlined in this thread for you...

I live in Toronto, but I am opting to bug out. Major Doom said to me personally "You don't want to be in a big city when the stuff hits the fan."