Good for you man. I don't see too many families, but I take care of the schizos on my corner as best i can, soup, coffee, bagels, cigarettes.

The reason some people are poor is because they had uneducated parents and you didn't. You should thank god every day for that. You should also thank god you aren't schizophrenic, or drastically mentally ill or physically or mentally disabled, or rather GAVE BIRTH to a mentally or physically handicapped, or mentally ill child. You should also thank god you live in Canada, and weren't born in the middle east or some other terrible place. I knew a dude who was playing soccer when he was eight, saw his friends back explode out of his chest from a sniper, try living a successful life growing up like that.

And another thing. As a christian, I get seriously offended when people mention "church" and then complain about poor people IN THE SAME SENTENCE. HYPOCRITES! Jesus was a socialist by philosophy, whether you care to admit that or not. He also taught not to hate the tax-man. YOU REMEMBER THAT? WHERE HE GOT PETER AND MATHEW TO SIT DOWN TO EAT TOGETHER? Yeah taxes, ain't so bad... PAY UP. It's what made this country as great as it is. The rest was unions.

Always bothered me how 'strong' people(mentally,educationally, financially, physically) can feel jealous over social handouts, as if theirs something the welfare recipient has that they're missing out on.

EDIT- Did anybody ever notice, every major religious figure that was close to God in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and a multitude of others was always broke and homeless? If the son of God ever returned to earth, do you think he would be broke or rich, and WOULD you listen to him if he was broke?

Singlecell,

If you are "thanking your god" for your parents education, your place of birth, your mental prowess, etc, what must your god think of those less fortunate than yourself? Your god must just hate the aboriginal people of this and other countries! Your god's adherents certainly have demonstrated a similar attitude. If you have done well because of the love of your metaphysical sky god, those that have not done well must certainly blame the hate from that same god (believers or not). You see, you can't have it both ways.

Singlecell,

I respect the assistance you offer to the needy in your area but disagree with some of your comments. Being born of uneducated parent doesn't make one poor and neither does coming from the Middle East. At the same time, being born from respectful families doesn't make one successful.

Also, there is a significant leap in changes between the taxes levied during Jesus' days and our modern times. Effectively, the Church is no longer the main source of support for the poor, sick and orphans. Sadly, we are now in a situation where everyone contribute to 'forced charity' through taxes to support government-based social programs. I would much rather keep (lower) taxes for government and infrastructure and give generously to charity through my Church than be forced to give a healthy amount of my incomes to social programs administered by a myriad of well paid public servants. Maybe this makes me an hypocrite, but I don't see myself as such. As for being 'strong' I'm really not jealous of those recipients of social programs though I'm really annoyed some people chose to make a lifestyle out of living off the government (I personally know more than a few). I'm not hinting this was the case in Fenwolf's example.

From a religious perspective (always touchy in public forum, but I'm approaching this from an historical point of view...), not every one close to God were poor. Starting in Genesis : Joseph, son of Jacob, ruled over Egypt as Pharaoh's second in command (wealthy). Moses was part of the Pharaoh's family (very wealthy). Fast forward a bit, King Salomon surely wasn't broke nor homeless. The Apostles were fishermen, tax collectors, etc and not poor (at least until they became preachers). Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was a merchant until 43 before he started his ministry. Just some trivia.

I'm not sure where to begin. You must understand everything you say about taxes make sense until you bring the poor into it.

"Being born of uneducated parent doesn't make one poor and neither does coming from the Middle East. At the same time, being born from respectful families doesn't make one successful."

See, the taxes part makes sense till you bring in the poor. "Forced charity" I'm trying to approach that in a way that gives you credit, but... What are you talking about??? Roads, infrastructure, hospitals, schools, police, military, jails, facilities and programs for getting people back to work, getting people to away from poor and criminal lifestyles.

Charities are great. I actually work around several foundations and charities. They are full of great, wonderful people of tremendous spirit, and the capacity for good. In particular they are helping Afgan vets and giving them business training. This is surely admirable, but they cannot provide for all the services I previously mentioned, let alone the poor.

You may not see yourself as strong, but you are. You just don't know it, and unfortunately you don't know that those people are weak. They are "poor in spirit", you know? They can't be strong for their family, for the public, and not even for themselves. Is it that hard for you to believe that, deep down, no one wants to live like that?

I would rather pay extra for services that would see them on medication, healthy, and employed(however minimally, if you're not contributing your taking, right?)and functioning socially, then to have them fall back on welfare.

You have to be ill to feel content on government assistance and you have to be confused to think that these people know what they're doing. They don't. They're missing out on whats good in life. You're not.

Anyways it's such a symptom of a bigger issue, as someone else mentioned. The Niagara area(St. Kitts) was given highest unemployment in the country 2012-2013, it's also gutted of all it's manufacturing. Why not start asking questions about everything you own, like your appliances, clothes, vehicles, materials in your house... etc. It was all made by slaves, pretty much. Money being leaked out of our economy and held tight by the Ultra Rich. We used to have these jobs. Why was it made there and not here? People will say environmental damage, regulation, well why do we manufacture stuff that is so toxic? Why don't we pursue other alternative to manufacturing and consumerism? You people need to ask more questions before coming to your own personal conclusion. I do too.

EDIT- If you want to go after corrupt corporations and government officials by all means. When it comes to wasting half a billion dollars for votes, I am sure I would find myself on your side.

Good for you man. I don't see too many families, but I take care of the schizos on my corner as best i can, soup, coffee, bagels, cigarettes.

The reason some people are poor is because they had uneducated parents and you didn't. You should thank god every day for that. You should also thank god you aren't schizophrenic, or drastically mentally ill or physically or mentally disabled, or rather GAVE BIRTH to a mentally or physically handicapped, or mentally ill child. You should also thank god you live in Canada, and weren't born in the middle east or some other terrible place. I knew a dude who was playing soccer when he was eight, saw his friends back explode out of his chest from a sniper, try living a successful life growing up like that.

And another thing. As a christian, I get seriously offended when people mention "church" and then complain about poor people IN THE SAME SENTENCE. HYPOCRITES! Jesus was a socialist by philosophy, whether you care to admit that or not. He also taught not to hate the tax-man. YOU REMEMBER THAT? WHERE HE GOT PETER AND MATHEW TO SIT DOWN TO EAT TOGETHER? Yeah taxes, ain't so bad... PAY UP. It's what made this country as great as it is. The rest was unions.

Always bothered me how 'strong' people(mentally,educationally, financially, physically) can feel jealous over social handouts, as if theirs something the welfare recipient has that they're missing out on.

EDIT- Did anybody ever notice, every major religious figure that was close to God in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and a multitude of others was always broke and homeless? If the son of God ever returned to earth, do you think he would be broke or rich, and WOULD you listen to him if he was broke?

Singlecell,

If you are "thanking your god" for your parents education, your place of birth, your mental prowess, etc, what must your god think of those less fortunate than yourself? Your god must just hate the aboriginal people of this and other countries! Your god's adherents certainly have demonstrated a similar attitude. If you have done well because of the love of your metaphysical sky god, those that have not done well must certainly blame the hate from that same god (believers or not). You see, you can't have it both ways.

Yes, it's a good question. The "Thanking god" part is more of a figure of speech, if these people find themselves in such a elevated state compared to those who they would criticize, they SHOULD be thankful, for WHATEVER reason. But it is human nature to react to those less fortunate with anger instead of compassion. It is supremely evident, because it is easy.

You need to assume that I'm not a typical Christian, believing in a sky god, first off. The most religious person I know used to get shot at on the way to the park as a child, and was born into a territory militarily occupied by "God's Chosen People" if you can believe that. I will say little else of the atrocities he has witnessed. Yet at the same time, he is the most optimistic person i know. There is not one photograph in which he doesn't have a smile on his face. Would you ask him the same question, that you asked me? He would tell you that when you suffer, it means God loves you.

I don't know about that. I don't know too much, except what I've seen in front of me.

I used to think he was crazy, now I know better. He knows what is important in life. Family, friends, and the capacity for love and compassion and forgiveness. Since he has that, I am assuming that is why he smiles.

I was simply making allusions to the fact that in the past, charities (and Churches) looked after the poor and sick while taxes went to run the government - the military, jails, roads....

Now the government - and associated expensive bureaucracy - is looking after EI, welfare payment, etc etc. all those social services account for a fair portion of my pay check taken away. This is what I meant as 'forced charity'. If I didn't have to give that money to the government (to be administered by large amount of public servants), I could then be free to chose to whom I want to give my "charitable money", may it be buying new appliances to that family that lost everything in a fire, or buying a week of grocery for that single mom, the utility bill for that man that just lost his job, etc.

I was simply making allusions to the fact that in the past, charities (and Churches) looked after the poor and sick while taxes went to run the government - the military, jails, roads....

Now the government - and associated expensive bureaucracy - is looking after EI, welfare payment, etc etc. all those social services account for a fair portion of my pay check taken away. This is what I meant as 'forced charity'. If I didn't have to give that money to the government (to be administered by large amount of public servants), I could then be free to chose to whom I want to give my "charitable money", may it be buying new appliances to that family that lost everything in a fire, or buying a week of grocery for that single mom, the utility bill for that man that just lost his job, etc.

That makes sense. There can be no doubt that you mean well. I just want to say that because I don't want anybody getting the impression that I think people who would rather voluntarily contribute are some how shirking social responsibility.

The welfare recipient numbers for Ontario alone have exceeded by a lot since 2003 apparently. There could be several reasons for this, one is the bounce back from the far right Harris years, making way for increased spending from a Centrist Liberal Government. Two, is the loss of jobs, in particular manufacturing(or so I would guess) in Ontario. Keep in mind St. Catharine's just got hit with the highest unemployment in Canada(Though it's been bumped to fourth place as of November 2013). Seeing as how the Niagara region is one of the most populated areas of Canada, let along Ontario, this would do well to explain the rise in welfare in Ontario.

But let's take a look at the charity issue again. You say you wouldn't mind pitching in for a family whose home was burned down, helping out a single mom, or helping out a singular man that lost his job, but what about 700 people losing their jobs, like at the ketchup plant in Leamington Ontario?? That's seven hundred families. This is a taste of the job loss that has hit North America. Then theirs the agricultural business that suffers, having to look for another buyer. That's a LOT of people. They're either going to go on welfare, or they're gonna move to other parts of Canada, looking for jobs. Best of luck to them.

You speak of forced handouts, out of your wallet. To our neighbors in the South, the government funds Wal-mart and McDonald employees. Did you read that? The peoples tax money is being used to feed people because corporations don't want to pay a living wage. You can't even really say that "people working minimum wage are lazy" or some other thing, because the number's aren't on your side. This is in the states, but were not far behind, read this article... http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/12/04/making-low-wages-liveable/raise-the-minimum-wage-to-12-an-hour

"But if a minimum wage hike boosted their pay to at least $12 per hour, Walmart could cover the costs by a one-time price rise of just 1.1 percent, and the average Walmart shopper would only pay an extra $12.50 per year. Meanwhile, a $12 minimum wage would increase the incomes of America’s lower-wage work force by a total of over $150 billion each year, shifting those huge sums from the pockets of the sort of people who don’t shop at Walmart to those who do. A minimum wage of $12 per hour would be very good for Walmart’s business. "

Once again, this is in the states, but it's not too far off from Canada. The numbers don't lie. You can have low taxes, or you can have low wages. You can't have both. And in the end who would you rather support, those who work(a job's a job), or those on the welfare support system?

I'm all for the idea of a "living wage". As a business owner I have never paid anyone anything even close to the minimum wage. To be completely honest though, in Alberta and in the trades I would never even have the opportunity to take advantage of someone in this way. Common labourers in Alberta expect to make at a minimum $15/hr without so much as being able to read a tape measure! For someone worth their salt, I start them out at $20/hr and see where it goes from there. I also don't blame the big retailers such as Walmart and Target for paying what the market will bear. We the consumer are addicted to cheap products which can only be produced in the 3rd world for pennies when the same product would cost ten to fifteen times that price were it produced domestically. Before you decide to hang out the big retailers to dry, consider how your own shopping preferences encourage or discourage the market.

Antsy

I'm all for the idea of a "living wage". As a business owner I have never paid anyone anything even close to the minimum wage. To be completely honest though, in Alberta and in the trades I would never even have the opportunity to take advantage of someone in this way. Common labourers in Alberta expect to make at a minimum $15/hr without so much as being able to read a tape measure! For someone worth their salt, I start them out at $20/hr and see where it goes from there. I also don't blame the big retailers such as Walmart and Target for paying what the market will bear. We the consumer are addicted to cheap products which can only be produced in the 3rd world for pennies when the same product would cost ten to fifteen times that price were it produced domestically. Before you decide to hang out the big retailers to dry, consider how your own shopping preferences encourage or discourage the market.

Antsy

Congrats on you for paying a decent wage. It's smart, you're getting your money's worth, trust me. Plus your coworkers can afford to socialize, and leave the house and can probably afford a better living space because of it. This is a good thing. What kind of management wouldn't want his or her workers to not be able to afford to leave the house.

Yeah yeah, true, except that article states that the upgrade to $12 an hour without any additional financial burden on the company the price rise on the customer is 1.1 percent, which might sound like a a lot, but when you think about how much more walmart employees would spend AT walmart, as they are the class of people who shop at walmart, as well as a multitude of other factors, all of it adds up to contribute to overall economic growth, from the bottom up.

To return to the idea of taxation for welfare's sake, the more money that people can save at THE BOTTOM(minimum wage) of society the less of a safety blanket(welfare) they need.

To push the ethical question a little further. Do we as preppers have a greater social responsibility?

In Calgary, I would say that the active branch of preppers have decided that they do. They have held a number of meetings offering to share information with people new to the idea and will be holding their first Plan C seminar in a couple of weeks. We have met to discus the content and continue to support the effort. So, as a group, there has been a recognition that our social responsibility extends beyond our nuclear group. As individuals, some of us gently push family and friends towards uncomfortable ideas about preparedness. Others like Singlecell recognize the needs in our society for greater economic equity. Is that recognition enlightened by an interest in prepping culture? I don't know for sure, I see a diversity of perspective in the community.

It might be interesting to consider what our 'core social responsibilities to society' are. Then consider if that core commitment to society is enhanced or diminished by the beliefs embraced by prepping. I personally believe that the 'moral landscape' is better today than it has ever been. I remember the CBC interview where preppers were accused of being 'hoarders' and of generally 'hurting society'. Clearly I don't agree. I believe that it is smart to plan for calamity. Some of us will share; some of us will shut in - in either case the people responsible for helping those who did not prepare will have their burdens lightened for our efforts.