Now that I was getting a feel for it...and seeing that this would make a fine, improvised Zombie Defence wall, lol, I started figuring the new meandering path the fence would take, using the best trees and the least posts. This mainly started because one of my jobs for the year was to find a bunch of the Service Berry trees (totally unusable for feeding anyone but the birds) and cut them down so the would coppice back into a more human pickable size. So I sort of started building the fence Bass Akwards. I started putting the extra material along where The fence would be with the intension of putting posts in afterwards once the ground was soft enough....and then I just kept cutting...and cutting...

At this point, I am starting to do it the correct way buy putting in posts in the open areas. I tried just ponding some into the wet ground between freeze, thaw cycles but it just wasn't working because I was putting the fatter ends onto the ground. I now use the post hole digger. It is my hope that a few of these posts will continue to grow, sending out roots and shoots, so they become live fence posts. Only time will tell. This is how many of the great hedges in Europe started. Many of them started as defensive walls put in by the romans, (Hawthorn) and they just kept growing. Im using my hawthorn sparingly to fill in light areas, on top to make it hard to climb over, and eventually sticking cuttings into the ground with the hopes that a few will take. Maybe some black berry as well. I put the post in during the hibernating phase so hopefully they will draw moisture up as soon as the wet warmth arrives.

More pictures to come. I hope to give it the pig test within the month.

I think My decision to get serious about this fencing came from watching Tudor Farm. Watling from coppice starts at about the 9 minute mark. Dead hedge at the 13 minute mark.(I want a much thicker and higher one. At least 3 ft wide) . I'll also do some major hacking of one area this year for future coppice material. I already did a bit for the posts. It didn't take long for the cut scrub to make it hard to move and work in. I'll drag that scrub out and toss it on the dead hedge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ERDYjsHBg

Most of my gardening this year will be done with a chainsaw.lol

I see why you said sore and needed stretching, great photos and overview! I will watch for further photos as it processes.. nice job!

The conversation on this is alittle more lively over at Permies but I thought I should cut an paste one persons thoughts on it that some here may find useful. Pay attention to the last paragraph

"DB wrote
Your "dead hedge" concept, though, I can work with. I already have brush piles! Seems to me you're just talking about arranging them strategically. 😉

Ross Raven wrote: I see that you have caught my fever. You may be cursing my name later. Its quite labour intensive. It will break down and need to be added to every few years as far as I can tell.

DB wrote
Yeah. I've done enough brush cutting that I have a notion. (I say this while nursing a right hand full of thorn holes, from spending two hours today cutting a whole thicket of Osage Orange saplings away from around a newly-discovered feral fruit tree that I discovered when it bloomed this week.)

I think if I do do this thing, I'm going to back it up by planting a living hedge in and adjacent to it. We've got a bunch of thorny stuff that wants to grow here; the only reason I haven't done living hedges 'ere now is the long lead time before they are functional. But planting osage orange and honey locust and willow and mulberry and hackberry along a dead hedge seems like a reasonable way to get to a permanent living and fodder-producing fence, especially if some of the trees supporting the dead hedge continue to grow and produce coppice (well, more like pollard actually) material for refreshing it. Adding to the dead hedge doesn't seem like much of a burden when I am actively growing and clearing and maintaining the land in its vicinity; there will always be brush that needs to go somewhere. But I like the idea that by the time I get to that certain age when I'm not going to be cutting brush, I might have a living hedgerow that won't need as much attention.

Ross Raven wrote:But you see that there is a dualcooperative thing taking place here. By not having enough coppice material, you build a dead hedge...which creates new areas that will produce coppice.

DB wrote
All my Googling today has reinforced the notion that dead hedges weren't so widely used historically because they were regarded as ruinously expensive, especially in labor. The best modern examples I can find on the web all seem to have been created by non-profits using lots of volunteers. So I don't see them as a permanent solution to anything. But as a pioneer fence during our initial attempts to reclaim land that's been let grow wild, it seems to have a lot to offer. Much of the labor "cost" is labor that would happen during land-clearing anyway, and the resulting fence can be used to establish animal systems long before they could be financed in any conventional way. Plus, the cold truth is that I need the exercise; I'm coming to this whole "growing stuff" enterprise deep into middle age after a ludicrously sedentary life to date"

The real important part for preppers were these words " used to establish animal systems long before they could be financed in any conventional way"

A live fence would work better.

A live fence would work better.

Nice to see you back NP.

Perhaps I am not communicating it right. There is a symbiotic relationship going on here. In the same way that not having enough coppice leads to making a dead hedge that helps to produce more coppice.....Sure, a live fence is the way to go but a live fence takes several years to be animal proof. If you build a proper dead hedge it keeps the animals in while providing for and supporting a living fence. The live fence should be taking hold as the dead hedge breaks down

Just approaching 2000 view over here and great responses
http://www.permies.com/t/53469/Fencing/Grateful-Dead-Hedge

I don't know what to say c5, since I lack subtlety I will just say the following straight out, and know I am on beta blockers so this isn't a adrenaline driven response I am so calm I don't even swear and give the finger in traffic anymore so with that said........I wont take the bait and click the link to give that prancing pretender a page view to help sell to his advertisers his site.
He is a well know quantity....I have boxed with that pretender on many sites where he does a drive by now and again to drop links to the endless vids he sells. He usually(or his sock puppets) craters the threads and gets them taken down when they don't go his way.

Now he writes code you understand...its his site!.........Now I am sure he is much more skillful and practiced at his craft than he was 5-6 or so years ago when I last visited. at that time the site was crude enough that the manipulations were clear to spot, he used to refresh his membership base to show that most everyone checked in, this would show that all 5000 or so members were on line or some such thing, I suspect to appeal to advertisers . Any questioning, or asking for real data on a subject would get a member banned, and at that time it was well known in internet land that most his claimed members were long since banned. It was pretty much a joke web site, I don't believe for a moment it has changed, other than his better ability to manipulate its appearance.
The only time that guy has gotten dirt under his finger nails is if he tripped and fell down, the only thing he uses a shovel for, is to pose when a camera is around, and if he has calasis's on his hands its NOT from work and likely they would only be on his right hand.
So I will pass on links to that site.....my time is better spent doing anything else, Nose picking comes to mind.2000 views can be him hitting the refresh key or his bobble heads ( and he does have some loyal servants) doing the same. again I am sure he has become much more sophisticated now than he was then, so I fully understand why you or others may not see what I believe is clear. I want to call it a zekered site,....... a guy endlessly introduceing new topics (thus Zekering) but he is much more, it is a zekered site but also a pauled site (I am just making these terms up as I go along) , and that means he answeres himself back.

Ofcource c5, As I always say.....if I am wrong, I will apoligise profusely, you just come back and say no he doesn't endlessly self promote, he isn't selling vids and or e books, doesnt try to get youtube views (that was his favorite), he doesn't drop links on his site or others to you tube vids to generate add revenue, doesn't spend his time encouraging others to drop links on his behalf, Tell me you have confidence his membership numbers are true,valid and active!, though do be aware I just may be able to prove the opposite (of his membership claims)
The internet...so much BS , so little time to shoot it down. He is a marketer, a image salesman, you can do that on the internet and make a living if your good....content doesn't matter you just pump up the volume enough to get attention. He might not be so youtube focused these days as I have been told they don't pay as well as they used to. The only thing that guy does is sit on his ass day after day in front of his computer repackaging any content he thinks he can flog to generate a revenue stream.

As for the hedge, it looks great, too labour intensive for me, way to labour intensive....I would start looking at eating the animals that I needed the fence for, but if you have nothing, that will build a fence. You must have a lot of energy....

C5, You caught me in a cranky mood with your post, I had been binging on George Carlin youtube shows, nothing good ever comes from that... I must learn moderation... Im fine now...its out of my system

That's OK. Mrs C5 is PMSy as well. Maybe your cycles have synced. 😮 😀

Can you think of some other overrated, self promoting person on this site. That's right. The Warrior of the waistland. The ayatollah of Rock and Rolla. that cantankerous, foul mouthed, self important, hard drinking, rantingest, boastingus, fantastically stupedice prepper of preppers. You got it. the Magnificent, one and only.....C5.... in all his glory. And the crowd goes wild.

Can you think of some other overrated, self promoting person on this site. That's right. The Warrior of the waistland. The ayatollah of Rock and Rolla. that cantankerous, foul mouthed, self important, hard drinking, rantingest, boastingus, fantastically stupedice prepper of preppers. You got it. the Magnificent, one and only.....C5.... in all his glory. And the crowd goes wild.

Oh no, not even close, I have no problem with that so long as the info you provide can be examined, cross examined , and tested objectively.
I will pm you a private message as to his manipulative shenanigans, just so you can be better aware of them...but time is so short....peppers and tomatos planted, more this weekend. How you have the energy to build that hedge is beyond me.....did you run out of mix? I get more done when out of mix

True story of the day. We are doing this in northern Nova Scotia. Like any farming community in the middle of BF nowhere, its a deeply religious area. Somehow, that is Buddhism. LOL

Soooo. The former director of the local Buddhist community was at our place today to chat with Mrs C5 about the feasibility of a local food hub. (Good luck with that). For context, I have to point out....German Buddhist. I told him to check out my dead hedge when he was leaving.

He rolled buy to where I was working. Appon seeing it, he replied, Oh. This is just like how they do t in Europe.

LOL. I told him about the multiple feedback loops I was learning while doing it. Opening up the area saves the dying trees. Cutting new arias produces future coppice for future wattle...and hand cuttable firewood once chainsaws are done. Once I bring in the pigs, they will deep till the shit out of the place, while getting in last minute protein for pregnant porkers from worms and the like. Once it is ubber tilled buy the pigs, I can yank out the roots from softened dirt of trees I dont want...and they will eventually eat every single apple that hits the ground, keeping any apple worms from being able to hibernate back into the soil, producing longer lasting apples to feed the pigs longer into the winter. Anything they eat will get pooped out into better fertiliser...and they will clear out the undergrowth so we pick fruit easier. More sun gets to the coppice fore faster growth. Better health for the trees because it dissuades woodpeckers feeding on dying trees. Two years from now, I hayseed so the topsoil doesn't wash away and the pigs only visit for apples but not to till. The hedge is a medium for new growing plants to become a living hedge for once I am old or dead.

Buddhist dude was impressed. I wanted to ask him...If I trip in the forest and land on my face cursing a blue streak...but there is no one around to notice...do I make a sound

Im a bit too beat to write anything charming....But, TA-DA! Today was the first day the pigs could be brought in...while supervised and I continued to add material.

I'll ad an aftershot of a previous photo. Then I will give a shot of the nightmare area that is about to become my new coppice farm once I clear it out