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question about Power in Ontario

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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

I have been hearing on the radio lots of complaining from those in Ontario about their power bill. I always like to see things first hand, could one of you post a picture of your power bill from last month, cross out your name of course...im just trying to get a understanding of what a typical bill is?
What kind of charges are on it? I have heard people on the radio saying they have to choose between paying the power or paying the mortgage. I would like to see a bill.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@nagol)
Trusted Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 92
 

The electricity charges are VERY dependent on location here.
I can give you my charges, keep in mind I have a quite modest home, 2 adults and 1 child. I heat with wood and have hot water tank, stove and well pump on 220v, all lights are led, 1 tv and no computer. Very low consumption in general.

Average daily consumption
Nov-dec On peak. Mid peak. Off peak
10kwh. 7kwh. 20kwh. $462.11
We are charged a variable delivery charge, regulatory charge, debt retirement charges(currently exempt) and hst

My last bill was quite small 139$ in electricity used, 134$ in additional charges.

I fear opening my bill as I never know what it's going to be. Could be 250$ or 650$. I never know and have no idea why it swings so much as my consumption is pretty stable.


   
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(@farmgal)
Member Moderator
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2852
 

I am sorry, I am not putting a copy of my bill for you, but I will give you a basic answer..

I run a small farm, we are per the power companies chart, in the best 10% savers for my area, my rural rating etc

I have farm power needs in terms of other buildings besides the house, I run outside water trough heaters, and I run meat freezers, and veggies freezers, and I have heat lamps and or heated hard plastic beds for lambs, goat kids and fowl babies, and I run lights and heat lamps for the adult laying birds. Now add in all my starting my seedlings lighting and I will have my incubators running steady for the next four months.

On top of that, I run a full size house with all the extra things that come with a true homestead, that means that I can a lot, I run the food dryers for weeks and months at a time, I do most of my laundry in cold or cool but not all, some has to be hot.. I do a lot of line drying but not all of it can be done that way. I do house laundry, farm laundry (I can do a load or more per birthing in towels alone, times that by 30 plus) and of course work laundry for hubby. I make all our meals at home pretty much so all cooking and baking an so forth.

We run a average bill of 300 in the summer months, with it easily moving up to 400 per month if I am canning darn near daily, and in the winter, we run 500 plus per month.. and I do my dead level best to use time of use savings whenever we can to reduce that cost.

We also replaced all our extra's not that many years ago.. we replaced fridge, stove, freezers, washer and dryer and did all the extra's to wrap pipes, hot water tanks and such to keep the use down.. We use fans, to move the air and cool things down in the summer, no AC

So this year, with all the things we have done, we have moved the hardest parts of winter months, Dec, Jan and Feb from our highest points of around 800 a month to 500ish per month. We are working on bring it down still but it is a big bill coming in monthly!

There are a number of things planned to continue to reduce our costs in this regards.

http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/


   
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(@farmgal)
Member Moderator
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2852
 

Hubby asked that I come back and make I tell you that for power use itself that we only use and pay for between 50 to 150 spring, summer and fall and that it might run up to 150-180 in winter and that the rest of the bill is all the extra's.. They say that we "rural" and "farm" are the hardest hit, because on average, we can pay as much or more just for our delivery fee along as we would for the power used...

http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/


   
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(@scrounger)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 608
 

Here is a quick look at my Dec 2016 and Feb 2017 bills. 2 adults smaller home. Gas heat and water.

303.38 kwh $64.39 Dec 2016
215.3000 kWh Off Peak
at $.08700
TX
18.73
41.6000 kWh Mid Peak
at $.13200
TX
5.49
46.4800 kWh On Peak
at $.18000
TX
8.37
Delivery
TX
22.12
Regulatory Charges
TX
2.13

457.97 kwh $83.89 Feb 2017
341.9700 kWh Off Peak at $.08700
TX 29.75
54.0000 kWh Mid Peak at $.13200
TX 7.13
62.0000 kWh On Peak at $.18000
TX 11.16
Delivery
TX 26.55
Regulatory Charges
TX 3.37


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

I haven't played the you show me yours and I will show you mine game in a while, everybody is so shy. Well I cant show you mine cause I don't have one but I do have electric bills left here from others who have stopped by to ask me questions about billing. Here is a typical one from last winter, a typical home, big size fridge, big full size upright freezer, electric stove used heavily TV, all the usual stuff, normal home.This is just the Electicity, gas is separate.

It looks to me from what you all have said...we have roughly comparable type charges...the amounts used are reasonable but the made up charges are a thousand little cuts, something like half to 2/3rds of the bill....This bill is from last year I haven't seen a new bill from anyone for this year but I have seen a new gas bill from someone and there is a new carbon charge of 10.00 on it, so I expect the above bill would likely be 10.00 or more dollars higher now.

We don't have the on/off peak game going on here....yet....it looks like that's a significant cost on your bills....I expect it to come here soon.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

We run a average bill of 300 in the summer months, with it easily moving up to 400 per month if I am canning darn near daily, and in the winter, we run 500 plus per month.. and I do my dead level best to use time of use savings whenever we can to reduce that cost.

That is a killer....at best maybe 5000.00 or more per year 😮 , I would never stop swearing if I had such a bill...never I would be called that guy with touretts ....but then again....you do recover some of that in food production.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@scrounger)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 608
 

We are getting the prov sales tax 8% removed from our hydro bill. But the lord giveth and the lord taketh away.

Although the government has warned homeowners to expect an extra $5 on natural gas bills, Enbridge, for example, says its carbon fee will be in the range of $6 to $7 a month, or $80 a year for the typical customer using 2,400 cubic metres of natural gas annually.

Gasoline companies can also charge motorists 4.3 cents per litre in carbon fees — just over $2 per tank — which will help fund programs aimed at reducing greenhouse gas emissions that cause climate change.


   
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(@farmgal)
Member Moderator
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2852
 

Let see if I was able to get it small enough to post.. otherwise, I give.. so this is normally our worst month in cost over the year and I did a lot of canning and we had bad weather so everything hit the dryer.

Ah, I got it this for you.. so yes, we did swear a blue streak on it, and we are always working on ways to lower it.. having said that, yes, its for the whole farm, not just a house.. and yet, they swear that we are in the 10 percent of savers in my area.. so what in heavens name are they paying!

http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

The electricity charges are VERY dependent on location here.
I can give you my charges, keep in mind I have a quite modest home, 2 adults and 1 child. I heat with wood and have hot water tank, stove and well pump on 220v, all lights are led, 1 tv and no computer. Very low consumption in general.

Average daily consumption
Nov-dec On peak. Mid peak. Off peak
10kwh. 7kwh. 20kwh. $462.11
We are charged a variable delivery charge, regulatory charge, debt retirement charges(currently exempt) and hst

My last bill was quite small 139$ in electricity used, 134$ in additional charges.

I fear opening my bill as I never know what it's going to be. Could be 250$ or 650$. I never know and have no idea why it swings so much as my consumption is pretty stable.

Do I understand you correct? 37kwh a day? Thats high imho. If that tanks electric, and its heating for 3 people...showers every day, and laundry....I suspect that's near 7 to 9kwhs a day right there (a wag), a electric stove doing 3 meals a day, maybe some baking another 4 to maybe as much as 9kwhs a day if baking (another wag).....your bill at 462.11 would scare me

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

WHAT! 18 cents a kwh? Are they firing the boilers with magic unicorns?
So I am trying to understand your usage....if I am reading everything correct you are using about 83 kwh a day...now that is very high but as you say, and I can see it, you have heating needs for animals, and other farm function requiring power, but wow...and the prognosis is for ever higher bills..... You are going to need to get medieval on that bill......or on those charging such prices.... I don't know what would be easier, but I know what one would be more fun.
Don't always assume there meters are correct, just last December a friend called me up. The bill was 3 or maybe 4 times what it should have been and it was not a estimate, the meter had been read. They couldn't figure out what happened. I came over just to see if maybe he left his block heater ( or 8 of them) plugged in or something stupid, called up the company to dispute the bill, had to send them a picture of the meter reading and got them agree that a mistake was made, they sent someone out to do something ( I wasn't there) and a new revised bill was sent out...its likely rare that there is a meter problem,but it can happen.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@farmgal)
Member Moderator
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2852
 

Yes, and wait for it peppercorn, they say that those prices will be rising every single year for the next five years! EVERY Single year.. Do you know what they signed for the payout for our solar and wind.. they are paying them 80 cents per KWH...

Do you know what they sell our "extra" power for to the states.. 1.5 cents per KWH..

But the Bleep-Bleep buggers sold out X amount of our system for "profit" and that means they sighed contracts that said, NO matter how much we lower our use.. they get to adjust the fun little line so they get to make their "proven signed by contact profits"

So in a nut shell.. the screaming you are hearing from this province, its real.. As a friend of mine said to me.. She is currently paying more for her power on her farm (in winter) then she is for her Mortgage montly.. insane.. and she heats with wood..

http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

wow....I would normally say you need to be looking at disconnecting and going solar, but with your consumption.....there is no way, 83 kwh is just a bridge to far....I think you are in serious trouble......everyone in the province...... I am going to go find another bill to post, its likely fading from the collective memory of Albertans... but someone might remember the days when we owned our own utility companies...as opposed to them now owning us.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@farmgal)
Member Moderator
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2852
 

Its will be a combo Peppercorn, we are moving the stove to propane, we are moving one area to small winter only pellet stove with solar lighting for that building. we are building a bigger different greenhouse with more passive solar heating for winter. We get good winds and so we will most likely do a small wind power.. and of course wood heat

But all said and done, we are looking to reduce the use, possible replace some of the outbuildings to solar or other ways.. take more canning to propane would help as well.. having said that, we agree with you.. we don't think we can go off grid with the way things are set up..

However as you said, these cost do not just run my house.. and there are returns that we get only because we put that out as required.

http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
Topic starter  

You know I have not seen a 80+kwh a day bill here in Alberta I suspect it would be nearing the 400 dollar amount, if you look at that bill I posted the actual electric charges were 25 dollars and the bill total was 93.00 Same thing going on in Alberta, just not quite as bad as we havnt yet got the peak/off peak variable pricing gouging going on yet (but its coming) and few heat their hot water tank with electricity in Alberta as most homes have natural gas available so that part of the bill is moved to a lower cost fuel. What I am saying is we have smacked ourselves up side the head in Alberta as well. Here is how it used to be, this bill is from 98, I seen the writing on the wall regarding utilities around 99 and began planning then to move off grid, though it was a long slow process to get there.
This is how good we had it when we owned all the utilities, The bill used to come out every 3 months in the country. So that total 101.00 is for 3 months of power. Roughly 34 dollars a month. Im not making this up, that's the actual bill. So I paid roughly 400 dollars a year, and I had a electric stove back then. I knew back then just how good we had it, I think it was 2002 when it changed for me.

The Alberta government passed legislation to privatize in late 96 if I remember right, but it wasn't complete until somewhere around 2002 and the bill just when up from there. I was already working on reducing my bill back then note I had it down to 11.8 kwhrs per day , had only compact florescent lights back then.
When I try to tell people how good it was, people don't believe me now!

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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