I am personally all for rural land, but it's something that has to have a lot of thought behind it. You will want to make sure that you can use the land for agriculture. That being said, you will also want to figure out how much land you will need. Considerations like type of livestock and crops to grow all factor in on this. It's a great idea, but it's not something you want to jump into!

I like the eco village Idea...you definitely have to find the right people and location...but if you do I think there is real strength in numbers. http://thelandproject.com/offgrid/

All considering, you need to look at acreage required to provide enough grain, and vegetables per person. For live stock, every different type needs are different, but still require a lot of area for grazing and even more for winter feed. Also you will need a reliable water source, and possible channeling to irrigate your farmland (high pressure irrigation might not be feasible in the future).
Farmers, please give advice here, since mine is limited to what I have read and seen on PBS.

mountainmomma,

I would suggest looking back in the Alberta Forum for posts made by Mountaineer. He was seeking persons to help start an eco-village. There is also a thread that is similar on the BC Forum, sorry I don't recall who started that one.

Best of luck,

Mountainman.

Agricultural land is one of the only investments these days that is going up regularly and predictably. As the old timers say, they aren't making any more land. People will always have to eat.

In the past 5 years or so, agricultural land prices have been increasing at a rate of around 4-6% (most recently 6%), and with the returns on rental from productive farmlands, which are right now about 4% of the capital cost of land, you have a return on your investment of about 10% a year, which is unheard of these days in the markets.

But for goodness sake, forget the eco-village dream. If you want land, go buy it. If you cannot afford it, buy less. Or buy lots of land, and subdivide to people you know or who are like-minded. But don't you dare let some group co-op collective condominium board take over and tell you what you can and can't do on your own land. That is where all of these prepper eco-village dreams fall apart. When people go spend that kind of money, they darn well want to own what they buy without some eco-idealist telling them they can't raise chickens because the poop smells.

1. Buy quarter section of farmland.
2. Sub-divide into 20 acre parcels (eight parcels). Some quarters have limits on how many subdivisions you can do. Usually 4 to 8.
3. Sell parcels to whoever wants it, keep one for yourself.
4. Use subdivided proceeds to pay for your parcel.
5. Rent out your parcel to local rancher or farmer.
6. Live debt-free.

I am also looking for land close to water and also well treed . I think something to be careful of is if you rmeebr the communist's when they took power in russia they went after the kulaks ..the farmers and stole thier land by murder ...remeber that so yes rural is much safer against chaos ..but ifi t is govonrment organised chaos becarful you will have afight on your hands.

Anyway i am looking to meet people and maybe even join or start a group of people that share ideas and meet regualrly . If interested letm e know

SUPERCAT34

Water conservation authorities are busy raining on many farmer's parades. They can rezone you without recourse or compensation for loss of land use and they are busy little bees these days, so keep that in mind. Don't count on raising lots of grain/hay unless you either buy some very expensive machinery or have someone with the time and inclination to cut/combine it for you in return for 50% of it or ?$ per acre. The land must also be accessible by large combines or it is useless for renting out to a cash cropper or for getting your grain cut. That works against many prepper ideas.

Also, banks don't give mortgages on farms very readily so you need to have some cash in the bank up front. Don't plan on quitting your day job and making a living off a farm. It can be done in some cases, but most farm income reported by the government includes off farm income. Rural is good but it is also regulated to death; especially small farm enterprises. Many smaller properties have city type neighbors that don't want farmers stinkin up the place. Isolation and a profitable farm are not compatible. True isolation means you better have your ducks in line. Reasearch carefully. Know what your goals are; not just your dreams.

Salix- I think you are understating what is involved in buying farmland and subdividing it. To start with, from my and others experience banks do not carry morgages on land that does not have a livable home and well. And when it comes to subdividing -(there are counties that aren't allowing it anymore), there is the cost of professional surveying,and lawyers fees. Depending on the rules where you are-you may have to build roads into each parcel (who wants to buy a parcel of land that they can't drive onto). And even if there is a road right there you may have to make a "driveway" with culvert across the ditch. As a "developer" you may also have to run power lines or gas into the parcels and don't forget the lawyers fees each time you sell a parcel. And when your land changes from farmland to subdivision the land taxes go through the roof. So if you are thinking of doing this look into it with your eyes wide open.

I would have to agree with SALIX stay away from the eco-village types, can't see them being preppers. If you can afford it go it alone. Its not as bad as one would think if you spend a lot of time looking. We have an old house (but very livable) on 6.5 acres with a old barn. Mortgage is $300 a month taxes $400 A YEAR. We try to spend week-ends there in the good weather. Winterize in late fall and thats its. When (now if) the kids leave we will move permanently.
Our goal is to take it off grid, add solar domestic hot water and live like kings and queens.
Seriously though we can accommodate 20 people as is if we had to. The family had a one acre vegetable garden that they added a load of manure to every year for the last 30 years. Wood heat, root seller whats not to love!
Guess my bottom line is I don't want (or need) 20 other people deciding what we garden, raise for livestock or do in our spare time. Your milage may vary!!
I am not aware of 1 case where 3-4 families went in on a property and it worked. Most failed because they didn't fully discuss what the plans were for the property well enough PRIOR to purchase. Then discuss what happens if the plans change.

Salix- I think you are understating what is involved in buying farmland and subdividing it.

Well, yes, there is obviously more to it than a single paragraph can tell on an online forum. But it is not impossible or hard. There are costs, and yes you have to have a causeway/road access for each subdivided parcel. You need to adhere to all county rules, and some counties are stickier than others, but all counties I have heard of allow at least 4 subdivisions per quarter. In some cases you will need to have a hearing where neighbours can complain about it if they want to, and address their concerns. So far, the biggest cost I have seen is a hardline phone access, which Telus wants $18,000 for, and will finish it in the next year or so. Seems like htey are getting out of the landline business, and focusing on cell towers. You get what you call a farm loan instead of a mortgage, but you can convert it to a traditional mortgage after you biuld a house (on your farm loan) and you use the house as collateral to transfer to a mortgage. You can get local excavation companies to dump their leftover clay (which they otherwise have to pay to dispose of) to provide roadways on to subdivided land (with culvert of course). Costs so far, minus phone line, range around 30,000 per subdivision.

You do not have to be a developer. You are not selling lots, you are selling land. 80 acres is the minimun size for farm credits on your taxes, which are a savings of about 20%, and to be able to buy and burn farm gas (purple gas) in your trucks (19 cents less than pump prices). If you have 80 acres, you can be a farmer. Anything less is an acreage.

I repeat, you do not have to be a developer. Farmers across the province subdivide before they retire, keeping their homestead house and buildings on a little 5-10 acre parcel and sell the remaining 150 acres for retirement money. They do it, and so can you. But just following my instructions won't get you there. But it can be done, and if you are serious it can pay all or a good chunk of your capital land costs. But do your own homework. Lazy people don't prosper. Not trying to start to be contradictory, but it can be done.

But my main point is, don't try to create an eco-village that is governed by a condo style ownership arrangement. It would be much better to buy the land and parcel it out, than try to share ownership between multiple parties. Buy it, split, sell it. Much easier legally, and when disposing of assets (land) there is no question of who gets what. And you make your own rules on your own land. If you want to dry your underwear outside, you can.

I understand what you mean by doing it that way and owning your land outright as opposed to "condo" style. I just think there are a lot of financial risks before you are homefree with your land paid for. I think people of modest means would be better to find an ideal bug-out spot for them and their families and build it up gradually as they can afford it. Unless you have a number of like-minded friends that are ready to buy-then the other would be a good way to build a community for safety and sharing and you could still hang out your "delicates". Also you seem to be talking about farmable land, and personally I am glad that I have lots of trees to burn and make platforms in and hills to dig hiding burrows into. I can clear what I want for garden area and it won't be seen from the roads. And deer and moose wander through all the time.

While I don't disagree with you, Joy, the original post was asking about thoughts on an eco-village, which I think I have made my own personal opinions about pretty darn clear. Any attempt will ultimately meet with failure unless you can address the problem that all communal systems of living share: some people work hard, some don't. If you have friends who are serious about an eco-village, subdivide instead of being ruled by the collective agreement of an eco-village.
Build an honest to goodness permaculture hamlet. But don't live on someone else's eco-land at their mercy of being evicted if you disagree with how far apart the beans should be planted or whatever other controversy comes along. Having like-minded self-sufficient and resilient communities beats a "commune" any day. Just my 2 cents.

I do agree with-I can't even imagine how a community would run if each family didn't have some autonomy and power of ownership. Sure it'd be nice if you could all do things like work together to build a security fence or something that could require many hands, but even then some would want to do it one way and some another. And others would want to sit and drink beer.

My family and I are thinking that it might be a good idea to get some rural land where we can homestead. What are your thoughts on this and on eco-villages or co-op living?

hi I have had a little thoughts on this as well best bet is mountian track area dig into mountian use streams in arear for propulision ie grinding grian rocks powering small elements with ditributers live under ground store your gear lot off lead gather many mirrors to diflect light into our under ground safe zone top soil stores and i can go on gig list short time