Preppersaurse you just *ping* something. Not so much a security thing but ...... Once a community is established and you have experts covering certain areas of expertise medical, blacksmith security etc. You will want each person to have a shadow helper. Someone to learn as much as the most qualified person knows in case the expert dies for whatever reason. You will have someone there to step up and take his place. Say the doctor falls ill or dies from something and you have no one to take his place then you will have to wait to take in someone or someone is going to have to book train. Both are not safe for the community. It's even better to have to shadows but ....but..... a person should only have one skill to learn. Beside the basic combat survival skills necessary for all. To much and the person will not be able to absorb everything and will end up lacking. A medic blacksmith will have double learning and be slower to learn and my not grasp all the details necessary to do his duty to the fullest extent. Again I am a lone wolf and for reasons not many would understand I will be bugging out wayyyyyyyy before most. But in a community everyone has to play a role. O.K. I am ranting now ... not so much about security. Just the importance to setting up your community to function.

The word is cross-training!

Goldie,
You don't want to buy them at the beginning of the season either. That might be last year's crop that never got sold.

I recently bought mine because I ran out. I only just got onto these naked oats last fall, and have been experimenting
with different suppliers.

I could have just bought 6 x 1kg bags to get me through, however it was about the same price as 12kg

By the way, these naked oats can also be home grown and since they don't require dehulling, someone might like to try growing them ?
and report in on the findings.

They can also be used for sprouting ( unless they are steamed at the factory )

http://canadiannakedoats.com/products.htm

This one is at BulkBarn
http://mysmartfoods.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=89&Itemid=159

Info on growing:
http://www.westonaprice.org/farm-a-ranch/naked-oats
http://www.thestar.com/life/food_wine/2010/11/10/farmer_grows_rice_of_the_prairies.html

Garlowin,

Re: Shadow Helpers: We have been calling them Apprentices. Almost everyone has some sort of trade, certificate, etc etc. If you have ever been an apprentice, you know you get all the sh*t jobs. As you can imagine, when the SHTF there are lots of jokes about which apprentice will be the one cleaning that fan. HAHA. Eventually, everyone is going to know how to do the others' jobs, at least enough to function. I have a manufacturing design, engineering moulding background, but for the last year or so I have been learning all I can about other fields that may be needed. Right now I'm doing Aquaponics, Reloading, Comms, and a few other minor things, while working with guys who know, or taking courses. Everyone has been working up on their security skills. Getting into shape is high on our list of priorities as well. Hope I can make it without potato chips. HAHA My wife will have me eating kale chips when the next crop gets harvested. Here comes the green things in my teeth.

Preppersaurus

One of my fears for this area I live in is that during a SHTF scenario, the young (white) pups would all run to the forest and drop every creature in sight without even a thought to over hunting the region or even food storage (as much would spoil before they get around to preserving it). I hope they listen to their elders as they would be immediately attracted to their first thoughts of no game wardens to arrest them for hunting out of season....and who wants to chop firewood instead! The natives already have this pretty much under control. They already can already hunt year round and were taught to take only what they need and share it with the community from youth. Even in this electronic age, they have retained more of the old ways than any other North American society.

I found this article and agree with most of what is said. Especially for those planning to be on the move when the SHTF.

http://graywolfsurvival.com/3382/bug-bag-ammo-cache/

Also for those who think it is a kumebaya fantasy to bug out to the bush and survive for extended periods of time, well I agree that it isn't something that just anyone can do, but you can't say it is impossible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2AYafET68

Oops, one further note. I realize the mother of the family ended up starving to death to let her children live in the Siberian wilderness. I am not saying it is easy. But one person starved, 5 other lived undisturbed for 40 years. One of which is still living out there 70 years later. 4 children we given birth to out there. Not easy for sure, but not impossible either.

Interesting story.

DELETED

Absolutely the biggest concern should be of preppers stealing and raiding other preppers. Would make sense would it not? Perdy simple!! Why challenge a nobody when you can challenge a prepper and get more out of it? But all those should also beware that a prepper is waiting for you. Thats what we do. The good ones anyway. The post is good to raise awareness but otherwise leaves you open somewhat and I won't even go there. Why should I say the problems with this plan when what I say helps you to better it?

Be cautious whom you take on as allies as they will be the ones holding the gun in your mouth when you least expect it. Or you will have to hold yours in theirs.

On the street its an eye for an eye and would I dare say the risks have increased at the time the SHTF? Im perdy sure!

And this is the point that I always saw as a dilemma. Many want the toughest on their side when SHTF, but the more dangerous those are you surround yourself with, are then also likely to be less moral when things don't go your way. Better to be with those you trust even though they are less apt than those you can't completely turn your back on without your "spidey" senses going off.

The more obvious scenario I think might be your greatest concern is that while your are out foraging/ hunting, another group would take over your location and now you'd have nothing. To prevent this, you would therefore have to set traps and alternate access to regain access in event such may occur. This then opens possibilities to members being injured due to forgetfulness increases further risk of injury. One could get a headache planning so many alternate options....

Knuckle,

You are absolutely right about trust. If you can't trust the people you're with, you will have to have eyes in the back of your head. As for raids, that can be a problem if there are only a few to protect the site, as well has go hunting and foraging. That is why it is important to find those you can trust BEFORE the SHTF. Because when it does, people will tell you any lie to get close to you and your preps.

Just spent a week with our group, looking for property to build a BOL. Lots of discussion about trust, and what to do should that trust be violated. We agree on the risks, we agree on the 'penalties', should that trust be breached. Pre-SHTF bonding (in my opinion) is key. If you can't trust them now, you sure won't be able to trust them with your food and other supplies.

We are looking for long term sustainability, not just some 2 week camping trip, until our spam runs out. The goal is to be 100% self sufficient, and capable of defending ourselves if need be. So far, 1000's of dollars have been spent on training alone. Everyone is taking courses, or teaching the rest of the group skills they have, so when the time comes everyone is trained on every facet of the plan. If people are willing to take a course, rather than talk about it, or read about it on the net, I would be more apt to say "There is someone who I can depend on". TRUST.

So if someone doesn't have thousands of dollars to spend, that makes them undependable?What about the ones who openly talk about euthanizing their parents when SHTF? Have met a couple of those...

Aaronbouge,

I was pointing out how SERIOUS we are taking OUR prepping. We are not just talking about prepping. We are prepping as fast as we can to get to a point where we have numerous contingencies. I couldn't bare the thought of not doing something simple now, that could prevent major problems after an emergency. We will have a place to go, that is secure, and self sustaining for the long term. Let's call it a lifestyle change. We will have (actually already do) caches of supplies to get there, should we be caught away from our BOL.

You can prep anyway you want. People can run to the hills at the first sign of an emergency, and hope they don't get sick, or their kids, and need medical help, or even common meds that can't be found naturally in the winter. People talked about getting their Ham license a while back. Did you? WE did. Now we are looking into base stations for a radio, as well as hand helds. Other courses will be taken, and the information is shared so everyone will know. Some courses we won't have to worry about. We have a nurse, with great experience in Chinese, and herbal medicine, as well as several Instructors with Wilderness First Aid, CPR, O2 Provider, and AEDs (yup, got one of those), and they are expanding on their skills as well. Everyone in the group has been trained in most of this 'basic' knowledge. Don't want to have one person knowing this and having them get injured or killed, leaving the rest without medically trained help.

As for people talking openly about "euthanizing their parents" .... It SHOULD be something to be talked about. I couldn't see dragging my Mother (who, btw died of a miserable, death as cancer ate her alive, and NO she wasn't euthanized) through the woods to a debris hut, to die a painful lingering death, while other people watched. Hmmm maybe that should be another thread.

It is great to know 45 ways to light a fire without matches. Personally, I think I can do it about 10-12 ways myself. No one can take that skill way from me. But buy a bulk pack of lighters, and I don't have to worry about rubbing two sticks together for a long long long time. When I need to, I am sure I can remember how to do it.

If they don't have a place to go in an emergency, and staying put isn't an option, where do they go? Hide in the mountains? Find someone who has a farm and live off their generosity, since they bring nothing to the table but knowledge of how to light a fire? No cached supplies, and show up with a family, dogs, and cats, and a goldfish in tow? THAT is not what we want. Our plan is to BE the people with the farm, already in operation, where food won't be an issue, and supplies were stored BEFORE an emergency that can last us a long long time. With this also comes being prepared to protect your supplies, and friends.

Everyone talks about hooking up with like minded preppers. In reality, preppers have their own mind set, that varies from one to another, and are extremely wary of other preppers. We have been calling it Prepper Paranoia. Some will bug in, some will bug out, some will drag their families across the countryside in hopes of finding sanctuary, and still others will just give up when times get hard. While some practice sneaking into a camp. Others practice and train to prevent it.

The forum seems to be full of people wanting to join groups, but few want to take that first step to even go for a coffee to meet, to build trust. Getting people into group prepping, is like trying to get someone to buy into Amway, or some other multi level marketing deal. You invite them out for a coffee, then do a sales pitch on them with your prepping plan. Some may go for it, some won't. Some love the idea of bulk buying in a group. Personally, I find this to be the best way to make money go a long long way. Can't find something locally? One of the preppers in another town may find a killer deal on what others need. We are finding this bulk buying alone a huge draw for preppers who want to be in a group. When they see we are serious about stocking up, we get a list of things they can't find. Now there are multiple sets of eyes in various markets, looking for supplies. To me that is efficient use of valuable time. It is surprising at the caliber of prepper this alone attracts to our group. Preppers wanting to keep their prepping to themselves, seems to be less efficient, more self reliant plan, since many paranoid preppers are worried about the same people getting their supplies, knowing what they have stored.

As for your comment on undependable = not having money to invest. People can do and spend what they want, for preps. Dependability has nothing to do with dollars, but I think it is a safe bet that, no matter how friendly people are on the net, no one will want a family showing up on their doorstep, expecting to be taken care of, when they never made the effort to cache supplies, or even have met.

Prepersaurus said it all...good job!

I too see that many talk but have yet to take that first step. They make excuses that they can't afford to but cough up money for other things they consider "a must have" in the moment. You just start buying a little at a time until you note that it your now well on your way... and during that slow start you will later note that your now weighing what you need against that you just want. You will become more practical and less spontaneous when shopping. Your supply stockpile will grow over time and you will find you did it without even feeling the pinch... but you first have to start!

(and quit thinking about who you will have to put down...that's just depressing! The future holds many possibilities without over thinking such as that!)

DELETED