I would figure this is my worst nightmare! A band of killers is something a group of intelligent people could hunt and stop. The true culprit to our dilemma is always controlling the game from the the bleachers. They are in places on high, looking down and out of reach for us to be able to focus on. They cover their backtrail well and all we can do is suspect them of their roll and notice all these coincidences which occur from the direction of their throne. No one talks as they too are profiting enough to keep quiet.

Even Alex Jones waves enough truth to give us pause, but he wraps it all in so many other conspiracies that his "Real evidence" is then viewed as "hearsay" instead(as mentioned in other threads, these are two catagories used in a courtroom). Today, evidence is no longer something folks try to hide. Instead, they redirect the trail of crumbs to another and point a finger...what always seems to be missing though is reason of intent. That is because the crime doesn't suit the suspect and the trail is often far from realistic either. Consider the bombing of the Twin Towers and crumbs leading into Iraq.....or even the marathon bombing followed immediately by the Via Rail scare in Canada... Now consider the cause & effect! What was the outcome? New bills were passed immediately thru both parliaments removing even more of our freedoms!

Let's try to get this back on track a bit...
the story in the OP came out a few years ago, and is as much a fictional writing as Jack and the Bean Stalk.
The original writer, whomever that was, has put this in a context that WROL, TEOTWAKI, and possibly the second coming, have already occured, which we know not to be true as I doubt very much that anyone has spotted Lord Humungus pillaging the countryside.
However, there is no doubt in my mind that there are people out there that have this very plan...to simply take by force that which they are too lazy to have prepared themselves.
Just take a look at that overweight idiot that appeared on Doomsday Preppers somehow thinking that playing with a doll was actually realistic training to deliver babies post apocalypse.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can count on all the marauder types being as inept as him.
So how do we guard against these types?
First, having a good security plan in place is essential. 24 hour patrols of your property is a start, but as with so much else in life, the key is communication.
Being able to stay up to date with what is going on in your region can give you a big heads up that someone like this may be close.
Whether you plan to bug in with a small group of preppers, organize a prepper community, or whatever, I think that keeping in touch as a community, coast to coast is key.
Now we may not all agree on the best way to organize our different groups, but we should be able to work together to defend against this type of threat.

Heya Garlowin,

Sounds like you have given this a LOT of thought. The list can go on and on, I'm sure.

Preppersaurus

I somehow conclude that if you are in a situation that requires 24 hour patrols, that you are also then surrounded to the point that even showing your head is somewhat dangerous. Therefore you are not gardening or any hunter/gather routine and supplies are dwindling. Then you are likely waiting to see who lasts the longest...yuk! Too many people and too many possible outcomes! The further one gets away from high density population, the greater your chances are accordingly. I owned 2 houses over 23 years in the city and never once considered it the place I wanted to grow old in. My city neighbours were shallow folk who smiled as a means of polite gesture only but closed to anything beyond. At least country folks would commit to community participation over chaos. Trust is not something large communities could learn in bad times.

Those who wish to truly protect their families have to seriously face this reality. One cannot live on a daily basis of "red alert" status for very long. It is too demanding and too draining. I know that many cannot see this as an option due to finances, but it is amazing what we accomplish when we have a mind to. And as you adjust to the slower paced lifestyle of country living, you'll find that you have more time to better prepare for more realistic set of circumstances.

Knuckle,

Dwindling supplies may not be the case for 24 hour patrols. It could be that you are the ONLY game in town. The only garden, the only fuel, the only ammunition, the only food, the only medicine. For that, vigilance is in order. If some one living off of rabbits, has a sick family member, they may resort to raids in desperation. I think this was the theme of this thread from the get go. (possible tactics of raiders). You can't protect your stores all alone, and you have to sleep sometime. The bigger the group, the more resources needed, as well as more supplies. This is why we have pooled our money to buy supplies. HUGE savings can be had if you bulk purchase. We are also finding that more and more wholesalers are allowing group purchases, rather than only selling wholesale to registered companies. When someone goes into a supplier and asks for a price on 2 tons of grain, they take notice.

Knuckle,

Dwindling supplies may not be the case for 24 hour patrols. It could be that you are the ONLY game in town. The only garden, the only fuel, the only ammunition, the only food, the only medicine. For that, vigilance is in order. If some one living off of rabbits, has a sick family member, they may resort to raids in desperation. I think this was the theme of this thread from the get go. (possible tactics of raiders). You can't protect your stores all alone, and you have to sleep sometime. The bigger the group, the more resources needed, as well as more supplies. This is why we have pooled our money to buy supplies. HUGE savings can be had if you bulk purchase. We are also finding that more and more wholesalers are allowing group purchases, rather than only selling wholesale to registered companies. When someone goes into a supplier and asks for a price on 2 tons of grain, they take notice.

I definitely don't go for the lone wolf mentality. The human psyche doesn't fair well in that. My point is that your chances increase being in a location with less population. Many won't make it as far out to my location, so I can therefore focus more on doing what's required such as hunter/gather. Most who do will have to deal with a community as a whole as we know each other and likely would work better together than larger communities. Nature can provide food and water where I live but survival without power would still reduce our numbers by those who were unprepared during the first winter. It's just that we wouldn't have to deal with many of the mass exodus of city dwellers. Lots of folks talk of survival knowledge, it's limits would be tested quickly.

These same skills and a lot more luck would be required to endure in a larger population. Add on top of that, those who stand with you are likely less trusting because you know each other less. Not only do we know our country neighbour, we likely know his sister, brother, parents and kids. We went to school together and dated his cousin. We may not be great friends but we still are likely to trust them far more than you could trust anyone you know in the city. Life would not be simple in bad times, but likely far better than those even near a city. And the only way that you could join and be part of a community like this is to join before something big occurred. At least they wouldn't kick you out then!

There is bush for hundreds of miles in all directions where I live. Yet hunted animals soon become wise during hunting season. Only the dumb animals die early when hunting season first opens. Then you have to know the tricks. Without fuel to travel the roads, man would have harder times going further out to hunt wild game as that in close was taken early. Those who knew the tricks would have to work hard...those who didn't would not fair so well. But no matter, we would still be better off than any in the cities.

Knuckle

You are right about trust. You can't build trust without eye contact, and actual verbal conversation. That is the frustrating thing about preppers, in general. First you have to convince them, that they need to prepare. Then you have to convince them you aren't some sort of whack job. For those who actually start prepping, they soon realize there is safety in numbers but won't participate. Everyone wants to hook up, but few want to make the effort, to do just that. Over and over there are people setting up meetings, yet few attend. You can't build up a relationship with some one by chatting on the internet, then, when an emergency happens, show up at their front door with your starving brood expecting to be taken care of. When they do show up, they will say anything to get what they want.

People will be in for a shock when the lights do go out and those 'friends' they chatted with, and quoted all the Google Search info,tell them 'I told you so', and then turn their back on them. More than feelings will be hurt when reality sets in. No one will trust ANYONE outside their group, then.

Ok, first I don't live in the city , I live outside the city in a rural area on country road with neighbors. Not way out in the bush though.
The cities are spreading out and getting closer, which is bothersome.
The idea of raiders looking for supplies to steal, raid, and take by any means , is yes , one of our worst nightmares.

If we could concentrate on prepping and not have to think of raiders ( and hence location, defence, security, and other tactics ) would be a bonus.
But simply not realistic in bad situations.
While some preppers worry about looters at their homes, some preppers have no option but to live in the city , and may live in apartment buildings,
not a house, and have no gardens and only have indoor sprouts. There are many types of preppers and each may be limited by many individual factors.

I am wondering how the bush and countryside would be if everyone left their homes to bug out. In car or on foot.
In car until their gas runs out. That means it could be city folk, or people living outside the city, bugging out . Just where is
the huge numbers of people bugging out to ? and avoid the others in the bush ? Some may be preppers with a planned location. Others are not preppers.

Some that are saying they plan to bug out, I wonder are you bugging out to that secret cabin or community, or just bugging out to the open bush ?
Because the worst nightmare will also be in the bush.

If everyone (preppers and non preppers) bugged out to the woods, soon, it would not take long before the woods became a very dangerous
place to be and stay hidden, with not much for shelter, heat, and supplies etc. Imagine that in the winter. At least in a house even with no
heat or electricity, you have shelter.

If on the other hand everyone it is bugging out of the city or area because of some localized disaster, chemical spill, war, or an evacuation,
then everyone is bugging out and following the big exodus.

But I also see people leaving their country home and heading for the city. Take for example neighbors. I find out they
only have enough supplies for 2 or 3 days, and their comment was, they'll just go to the city, they buy as they need. Alot of people seem to
think cities will have something setup to provide for everyone. Some folks think the stores will even be open , but that would
depend on the type of situation.

So there could be people that head to the city and others that leave the city. People that bug out to the bush may eventually
return to the city because they need equipment or supplies or even clothes. Or they will loot and raid along the pathway they travel, but with such huge
numbers out in the bush, rural homes on the path to the bush may have already been raided.

What I'm getting at is we need an understanding of where the average non prepper might think the place to go is, depends
on each different situation. If it is winter and the power goes out, such as for 2 months. I doubt many people would bug out from their home
to the great outdoors ? Also any city or government community setups would happen in the cities, not out in the rural countryside. Some people
may stay in the city because of that, and others may go to the city because of the community setups in cities.

So if we are in the rural area, are we on their pathway to the city ? Will other rural people passing by towards the city
raid and loot us ?
And are we on the pathway for city folk to pass by us to bug out to the country if that is the route everyone is taking ?

Another situation to think of is the remote bug out location or cabin in the woods , might have been taken over
by looters by the time you get there, or even if you are there, once discovered, your location might be an easy target.

Then there is the house in the countryside by itself, I can just see it being
a target with no neighbors or anyone around for 5 miles .

There may not be much hope for a truckload of looters traveling by trucks going door to door looting for supplies

I still think a method to hide supplies is needed, at each location you have , so that if your worst nightmare of looters happened, they did
not get all your supplies. All I can think of is some sort of underground root cellar hidden in the ground, filled with your buckets of
mylar long term supplies. Or building an underground tornado shelter where you actually store your supplies.

I still think country folks may have more to contend with than they think. In a grid-down scenario where food and water have trouble reaching the city, the logical thing for the govt or Red Cross or whatever to do is to set up relief camps near the food and water.

In most cases that means...you guessed it...the country. Imagine having 100,000 angry and bored tent-dwellers roaming your woods 😛

Goldie,

I agree with your need to cache supplies. All it would take is one angry neighbor you have said 'no' to, to toss a match on your house, and bye bye supplies. If you spread them out, one cache can be destroyed while the others remain in tact. We just bought mylar bags for 55 gallon drums, for just such a cache. And don't forget clothes. Value Village is an excellent place to go to stock up on clothes, for caching.

There are many factors which influence how people will react. During a flood, they head for higher ground, power outage, they sit tight and wait to see how long it is. The worst case scenario is usually the one best to plan for. That said, it is likely the EMP example as it is power out and all is down. Government intervention with food lines and assistance is what they expect. Yes, these services will be provided for near large cities and those without will flock to them quickly. This is great for the temporary event.

The flood in Calgary showed me that people started stocking up immediately and those who were caught unaware found only empty shelves within the first 2 hours. Cell service was immediately jammed for long distance but local was working. I got around still but used the bike alot for the heavy traffic trips as I ran the shoulder alot instead. No one went nuts but tempers were shorter.

High River was a prime example of how higher ups in the government saw ways to take advantage of such a situation. The RCMP wasted no time in testing public limits. They did some back peddling but came away with knowledge as to limits of the Canadian public regarding such actions. Every action also shows them who is sheeple and who is not! Imagine how far that tidbit could go if they were recording phone conversations at the time? Do you ask yourself why the RCMP stepped over the line so far? They had to have a goal in mind, so what was it? Chances are it was to test the limits of the public. They are still pushing with the bans of semi-automatic rifles and will continue until folks rally together and say enough. It is actions like these that should remind each of us that we should not put too much faith in our system, even here in Canada. Yet saying nothing only gives them strength, so protesting these actions is still a responsibility if you wish to slow their progress(just do it in numbers).

For those who wish to flee to the woods, they best do it is the summer. One has to put up enough firewood to survive the winter as you would store food. Fresh wood is wet wood and requires a whole summer to dry completely. Any fallback that urban folks prepare for has to be occupied immediately during a crisis or you might find squatters beat you there. Most areas even here where I live are someones trapline. These folks work it mostly in the winter but it is unlikely that many could deal with a pissed off trapper as he'd just start laying man-sets instead. The trapper might be only one against many, but he would likely be a fearsome enemy until killed. And the killing of one local would make you enemies in their eyes. Again, best to join these communities early than late! And without already living there, chopping wood and planting gardens, your chances are a lot lower.

Goldie,

I agree with your need to cache supplies. All it would take is one angry neighbor you have said 'no' to, to toss a match on your house, and bye bye supplies. If you spread them out, one cache can be destroyed while the others remain in tact. We just bought mylar bags for 55 gallon drums, for just such a cache. And don't forget clothes. Value Village is an excellent place to go to stock up on clothes, for caching.

Preppersaurus, are you suggesting to bury the 55 gallon drums ?
I think we should start a new thread for this idea of burying caches in the ground.

There is also the need to hide inside the house another cache of supplies, because if you are looted , and hopefully they don't find
the indoor hidden cache, it might be too dangerous to go outside, or dig up the buried cache because it is winter etc/

Goldie,

Caching doesn't necessarily mean burying. We plan on buying grain in bulk. This lasts much longer than processed flour from it. Got the indoor cache thingie covered.

Preppersaurus

Goldie,

Caching doesn't necessarily mean burying. We plan on buying grain in bulk. This lasts much longer than processed flour from it. Got the indoor cache thingie covered.

Preppersaurus

Nightmares can also be finding that your grains have gone rancid during storage or mice have chewed through the plastic pails .

Another nightmare would be a looter finding your oats and dumping them out as junk because they might be looking for
food in tins.

Speaking of processed grains, I have already been buying oat groats instead of rolled oats, recently bought 25lb of oat groats.
However, I am not using traditional oat groats, I am using the newer Canadian "naked" oat groats, where this type is not dehulled,
but I am not sure of their shelf life.
Which in my opinion should increase the shelf life over rolled oats, and also more wholesome than the oat groats that have been dehulled.

I've found a couple places online you can buy them in Canada, one being OakManorFarms
These oats were much cleaner than others.
http://www.oakmanorfarms.ca/
and another place in BC but you have to phone them as naked oats are not listed on their website
only the traditional oat groats. I bought from them first and there was alot of small rocks in the bag.
http://fieldstoneorganics.ca/
and Bulk Barn seems to carry Bulk CAVENA NUDA oat groats which is also the naked oats.

Both online sites said oat groat only have a short shelf life when I phoned. The site in BC said
just a few months, and buy small amounts only. The other site , oakmanorfarms, said if you keep them cool
they were good for at least a year or two. I have to wonder since naked oats are newer, if they are just
using the information from the storage they knew of from the dehulled oats , which should detiorate faster.

None of them were willing to go the mile for oat groats or rolled oats and say they would last a long time with
mylar and O2 proper storage. The same with wheat berries. I think the best time to buy and put into mylar
is when harvested not in off season, which means the product is already 6 - 8 months old with unknown storage.
If we buy it very fresh, and get it into mylar storage that should also increase the storage life.

I have a flaker and also a grain mill, and I will also not be storing processed flours. You can cook the oat groats like rice
or flake them or grind into flour. A whole oat groat would be better than steel cut oats as steel cut is just that .. cut in bits, with loss of nutrients
once cut , and flaked oats also lose nutrients once rolled.
Oat groats do take awhile to cook however. I find soaking them ahead really helps also. You have to watch them while cooking
because they do not contain any " stabilizers " like rolled oats do. The stabilizers help to keep the oats from boiling over.
However, do we want all those extra chemicals ? Or are we willing to watch and stir
I highly recommend naked oat groats and getting a flaker.

What I find interesting is that I find conflicting stated shelf life for rolled oats and oat groats.

Goldie,

Thanks, That is a lot of info. We are well aware about the possibility of bad grains, especially if you buy them off season. You don't want to buy them at the beginning of the season either. That might be last year's crop that never got sold. As for mice.... They would have to be RoboRAT to get through the metal drums. HAHA Geeee do you think they could mutate with the radiation from Fukushima? One of the men in the group is spear heading the bulk grains, He has experience with cryo-something or other for storage. Sorry, that isn't my department (Hey I like that, had it said to me enough in my lifetime). Will definitely check out the oat groat, and those two websites. Currently, we are looking locally and have had positive feedback for bulk buying.

Got the grain mill covered. Several actually. I sure don't want to be the one hammering it into flour should they break. Going to check out the flaker too. That is all new to me. My focus is on other things for the group. Stick to stuff you know, and pass the info on to those who do.

Thanks

Preppersaurus