ok my bad. i wrapped up too many references together

Wayne,

Quick question. If you didn’t know if there were firearms in a house you were attending to, such as a domestic....Were you trained to assume there were? (Clearly, yes) So how does a list of recent sales / registrations help you when you know there is non-compliance and no need to register guns you already own?

C-71 is full of holes. And does not even mention the word ‘gang’ or ‘criminal’ once. It only targets the law-abiding, not their precious guns and gangs.

Furthermore, they just instituted a new bill to LESSEN sentences for criminals, and destroy the jury process. (C-75) They are after the wrong people. They so far have just made the lives of people who didn’t vote for them more onerous.

Wayne,

Quick question. If you didn’t know if there were firearms in a house you were attending to, such as a domestic....Were you trained to assume there were? (Clearly, yes) So how does a list of recent sales / registrations help you when you know there is non-compliance and no need to register guns you already own?

C-71 is full of holes. And does not even mention the word ‘gang’ or ‘criminal’ once. It only targets the law-abiding, not their precious guns and gangs.

Furthermore, they just instituted a new bill to LESSEN sentences for criminals, and destroy the jury process. (C-75) They are after the wrong people. They so far have just made the lives of people who didn’t vote for them more onerous.

I mentioned that I liked the previous registry for the purposes described. Any process of gun registration (now and in the future) will add to an ever growing database and will provide the police with a better idea of what they're facing. It will also help investigators follow those registered weapons used in crimes because they'll be able to better understand their origin.

A police officer has to keep in-mind situational awareness at all times. There's a difference in assuming that there may be a danger and knowing that a danger exists. In a similar way, there's a difference between being sent to a residence where a person is believed to be armed and another where shots have been fired. How the home is approached is dependent upon the circumstances. In police work, any reliable intelligence is better than no intelligence at all.

I'm of the opinion that the Bills you mention are not in the best interests of the Canadian public or the Police. Given the current government, I can't say that I'm not surprized. I can take little solace in the fact that those who voted the current government into power get the government they deserve. Unfortunately, those of us that didn't support their election, have to suffer along with the others...

It is the job of the police to enforce the law. The makers of it are elected by the people of Canada. Perhaps they will be overjoyed with their tokes and will be too stoned not to care about how the country is being run... 🙂

It is the job of the police to enforce the law. The makers of it are elected by the people of Canada. Perhaps they will be overjoyed with their tokes and will be too stoned not to care about how the country is being run...

Good point . now to get the point of why are the RCMP and their ilk involved in the firearms regulation and classification niche.

Good point . now to get the point of why are the RCMP and their ilk involved in the firearms regulation and classification niche.

The RCMP is Canada's only Federal police service. Traditionally, they've been assigned to undertake the federal government's crime related tasks. This includes the national index of criminal identification including: mug shots, fingerprint/DNA archive and the Canadian Police Information System, to name a few. They were also responsible for the previous firearm registration archive.

There are many administrative functions which the RCMP take on, where the government doesn't want to establish a separate organization to be responsible. One such task was the collecting, analysing, reporting and disseminating intelligence on threats to Canada's national security before the establishment of CSIS. The RCMP also are responsible for the security of Canadian Embassies worldwide in the same way as the U.S. Marines do for the U.S.

Wayne,

Quick question. If you didn’t know if there were firearms in a house you were attending to, such as a domestic....Were you trained to assume there were? (Clearly, yes) So how does a list of recent sales / registrations help you when you know there is non-compliance and no need to register guns you already own?

C-71 is full of holes. And does not even mention the word ‘gang’ or ‘criminal’ once. It only targets the law-abiding, not their precious guns and gangs.

Furthermore, they just instituted a new bill to LESSEN sentences for criminals, and destroy the jury process. (C-75) They are after the wrong people. They so far have just made the lives of people who didn’t vote for them more onerous.

I mentioned that I liked the previous registry for the purposes described. Any process of gun registration (now and in the future) will add to an ever growing database and will provide the police with a better idea of what they're facing. It will also help investigators follow those registered weapons used in crimes because they'll be able to better understand their origin.

A police officer has to keep in-mind situational awareness at all times. There's a difference in assuming that there may be a danger and knowing that a danger exists. In a similar way, there's a difference between being sent to a residence where a person is believed to be armed and another where shots have been fired. How the home is approached is dependent upon the circumstances. In police work, any reliable intelligence is better than no intelligence at all.

I'm of the opinion that the Bills you mention are not in the best interests of the Canadian public or the Police. Given the current government, I can't say that I'm not surprized. I can take little solace in the fact that those who voted the current government into power get the government they deserve. Unfortunately, those of us that didn't support their election, have to suffer along with the others...

It is the job of the police to enforce the law. The makers of it are elected by the people of Canada. Perhaps they will be overjoyed with their tokes and will be too stoned not to care about how the country is being run... 🙂

Its interesting to get the perspective of LE. I've heard from as many on both sides that have different reasons being fore and against it.

One of the reasons it was scrapped...is that in the billions spent, no real benefit was found in having it. Thats not really up for debate anymore, and hence why it was never re introduced when government changed hands again from the Conservatives to the Liberals. The only province which has tried to cling onto it is Quebec..which is more a culture's hate on guns...not really for any practical purpose. And after the tragedy at EcolePolytechnique..its not hard to see why people would be emotionally pulled in that direction.

I accept that police would like that information ahead of time. I've never heard LE ever say they want less information. Police could find a reason for wanting to know many things about people all in the name of public safety. However does that really transfer to the good of society...or does it just erode another small aspect of a persons privacy...and ultimately there personal freedom. Police could want to know about swords, perhaps knives, perhaps acid...maybe explosive things like propane tanks or butane.....

Think a slippery slope is sensationalistic and over reacting? 🙂 Hmmm.....

I believe UK for the most part banned guns for the good of society. Law abiding citizens rallied. And criminals moved onto Knives. The knife crime in UK is staggering.

And of course Acid...lets not forget the acid....because when knives are restricted. (And I believe length, and style are already controlled in UK) criminals intent on doing something wrong move to something else.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/07/surge-in-acid-attacks-in-england-leads-to-calls-to-restrict-sales

so whats next? Baseball bats? Cars? 2x4's.... Or perhaps its time to look at underlying issues instead of knee jerk reactions to issues.

...I accept that police would like that information ahead of time. I've never heard LE ever say they want less information. Police could find a reason for wanting to know many things about people all in the name of public safety. However does that really transfer to the good of society...or does it just erode another small aspect of a persons privacy...and ultimately there personal freedom. Police could want to know about swords, perhaps knives, perhaps acid...maybe explosive things like propane tanks or butane.....

Think a slippery slope is sensationalistic and over reacting? 🙂 Hmmm.....

I agree, perspective changes opinion. I've been raised to think the police are there to protect us. In LE, I've found this to be true. They operate in good faith. The force is largely composed of well-meaning people that try to do the right thing. That said, they are human and are fallible. Like in all parts of Society, a small percentage has criminal intent.

Personally, the police can have as much of my private information as they want. If it's abused, I have recourse. I have much more faith in the police than I do the judicial system or the Government, but that's a personal reflection.

Imo too much is made about personal privacy and people's rights. I'd like to change the topic to personal responsibilities. In my mind, rights and responsibilities are two sides of the same coin. It seems that all people talk about is one side, while the other is neglected.

As to the root cause, I agree with you. That is for criminologists and social scientists to determine (not the police department). Until then, we have to control the tools that are doing the most harm. Doesn't that sound like a reasonable thing to do?

SO you are ok with a single entity making the law, enforcing it and then offering their "interpretation " of it without any oversight. Yup shows where your thoughts lie, when someone shows you a dictatorial regime.
As to the root cause, I agree with you. That is for criminologists and social scientists to determine (not the police department). Until then, we have to control the tools that are doing the most harm. Doesn't that sound like a reasonable thing to do?
Why isnt alcohol autos and tobacco regulated this way? they kill way more then any firearm here in Canada

SO you are ok with a single entity making the law, enforcing it and then offering their "interpretation " of it without any oversight. Yup shows where your thoughts lie, when someone shows you a dictatorial regime...

Jimbo, I said nothing of the sort. Another misunderstanding?

Why isnt alcohol autos and tobacco regulated this way? they kill way more then any firearm here in Canada

I too own restricted and non-restricted weapons. There're restrictions and laws covering alcohol and tobacco. Tougher regulation is normally warranted if they involve a risk to others. Much of this is perception. As I've mentioned, I don't agree with the Government's position.

My issue is that a single entity making the law, enforcing it and then offering their "interpretation " of it without any oversight.Makes a FA prohib at a whim with no justifiable reason for it. Same with magazine limits. The previous LGR failed horribly and exceeded its budget many times over, and showed how flawed the RCMP /CFO system is. Same firearm different stock or barrel would take it fron NR to PROHIB. Having to keep who you sold a FA to for longer then a DR.has to keep patient records, like really. Then lets see how much an engraved barrel/receiver really cuts back on crime. No sad to say the LPC and Goodale are driving the ship (CFO) thats foundering on to the rocks.

The police are there to protect us. In LE, I've found this to be true. Sorry I no longer believe that. I believe that I really do much like this current and the past claim no (social covenant ) for the CAF. The LE community has lost its way, or they would be enforcing the law not making it . Its sad but true.

I understand, but the law is made by elected politicians which form the Government. Is administrated by the Police and the judicial system (government). Trial oversight by Judges (government) with participation of Jury (individuals) and appeals (government). The elected representatives which make-up the government have all the control. They create and modify the laws and how they're managed.

The police can only accomplish their responsibilities within the law. In other words, the government restricts how the police can operate. This is a check and balance within the system. The police are held responsible for their actions by government. The only responsibility the lawmakers have is at the polls, come election time. Otherwise they are uncontrolled.

If LE has lost it's way, it's the Government's job to take it to task. Government has the oversight. They're the one's ultimately responsible. You can't blame the police for that. I'm not saying not to lay blame on the Police when it's warranted. At the same time, insure that these mistakes aren't forgotten and law/policies are put in-place to insure it doesn't happen again. Again a responsibility of Government.

Clearly the citizens of Canada were either mistaken to vote in the current Government, are content with how things are going, or don't care one way or another. The Government is responsible for the current situation.

LE does not make the law. You seem to feel otherwise. Why is it that you hold this opinion? Please be specific.

As is openly known the CFO is a sub arm of the RCMP. They make the law that the RCMP enforce.

Wayne,

I think what Jimbo is trying to say is that the RCMP decides how guns are classified. In effect making the law on what is prohib, restricted and non rest. That can change as they want. See the Swiss Arms debacle. Conservatives took it out of their hands, Libs gave it back to them in 2016. Get informed, read the link.

https://thegunblog.ca/2018/03/20/new-gun-law-csaaa-chief-wes-winkel-comments-rcmp-responds/