That's kind of a akward site to use, there is likely better.

That's kind of a akward site to use, there is likely better.

Giving it a whirl. Thanks for the link and if anyone else knows of some good links that work well for canada, fire away.
Thanks in advance

So since I have installed some new type of batteries I have been paying closer attention to my system, We have also had a very overcast spring and summer, in fact so dark out right now there is no shadow anywhere, and you cant tell where the sun is. Just now I confirm again that under poor light conditions my 12 volt panels are putting out absolutely 0 amps, Absolutely nothing. My 30 volt panels on the other hand are putting out enough to run everything in the house and still charge the batteries. Just a observation that I didn't think would be so but is. I am suspecting that I am gaining in low light from 30 volt panels and charging at 12 volts, and the 12 volt panels in low light just cant generate the voltage to climb over 13 volts and charge.

peppercorn, if 30v panels are so much more efficient, why are 12v panels purchased?

peppercorn, if 30v panels are so much more efficient, why are 12v panels purchased?

I was not clear, both the same efficiency. I suspect if I was charging 24 volt batteries with 30 volt panels I would have had 0 output in the same overcast conditions. I think I was getting some amperage output do my 12 volt batteries needing less voltage to begin charging, and the 30 volt panels able to put out enough voltage to charge, although still way less than the 30 volts they were designed to put out.

It would seem however that 12-volt panels are useless for 12-volt batteries and 36-volt panels would charge a 12 volt or 24-volt system nicely. Pardon my ignorance, but if this is the case, why not set the system up with the higher voltage panels. Especially when the panel can be expected to produce less than its stated voltage on overcast days. What am I missing?

It would seem however that 12-volt panels are useless for 12-volt batteries and 36-volt panels would charge a 12 volt or 24-volt system nicely. Pardon my ignorance, but if this is the case, why not set the system up with the higher voltage panels. Especially when the panel can be expected to produce less than its stated voltage on overcast days. What am I missing?

If I could add to that question.
Why use 24 if it appears 30 panels do a decent job with 12 volt? Wouldn’t it be better to configure system with or for most available 12 volt but with bigger panels?

Like Wayne, I must be missing some performance factor with 24
Thx

Ok, I have not been clear. 12 volt panels are fine, 30 volt panels are fine, other voltage panels are fine. I was only making a observation, since I happen to have both kinds, and my observation is only valid for this unusually overcast summer we are having. My 12 volt panels if I would have hooked them in series for higher voltage, basicly turning them into 30 plus volt panels then they too would have been giving me some power like my 30 volt ones were.
To answer this question From Clarence....As best I understand it.
Why use 24 if it appears 30 panels do a decent job with 12 volt? Wouldn’t it be better to configure system with or for most available 12 volt but with bigger panels?
A good argument can be made for using 30 volt panels with a 12 volt system. Up until just recently 30 volt, often called grid tie panels where cheaper than the cost for 12 volt panels. using them does appear to gain better performance in low light conditions (from what I have seen) but the best reason is if you wish to have your panels a great distance from your home, just size your wire for current capacity and don't worry about voltage drop, as you could lose 15 volts in line loss and still have a well running system.
But this is all kind of a mute point because no one now days would likely set up a house size system to run off 12 volts, 24 volts for house size systems is what I recommend.

Thx peppercorn, apologize for my perhaps scattered question. I have a non linear brain at times. Sometimes it’s effective and other times not so much 😆

Everyone have a good weekend

Here are the new batteries sitting in the old battery box. When I have the bank built up to 6 of these I will cut the battery box in half as I will never need a big battery box again. So far even in these overcast summer days these 2 batteries are running my whole house just fine, though its kind of easy to get by on few batteries in summertime Alberta. Likely this fall a third battery will be added and I will see how that goes through the winter. I expect to pick up a fourth next year some time, then my last 2 the year after. I kind of want to have a couple batteries older than others just so the older ones will give me a heads up if over time performance starts dropping.
Your looking at just shy of 2400.00 dollars. Forget gold as a precious metal, clearly its lithium. As I tell myself it will be worth it, as once I have my 6 batteries I am done buying batteries for life. I could stop at 4 batteries and I would be good, but I want a little more headroom. Even with just these two batteries the performance difference from lead acid is amazing.

A Canadian distributer is now bringing in a line of lithium batteries,(outside of the American distribution system). Not top shelf batteries, but in my judgement they are a solid performing C + in quality. The prices are a little less than 800Canadian, but still have the 100 amp usable capacity. I will be trying a couple of these, in October. If I am happy, a couple more in spring. This will bulk up my amphr capacity. The performance from just the two I now have is outstanding..not going back to lead acid again. This is the future.

So they claim 99% efficiency with these type of batteries. I just ordered in a meter (20 + dollars, cheap) that can track and record the amp hours put in VS whats taken out of the battery, So I will be able to confirm that claim soon. With the last brand I have found, 400 amp hrs would cost me 3192.00. I could live large on that, though I will have more, X2. No maintenance with these batteries no toping up distilled water, no corrosion on the terminals, they cant be killed by draining them all the way down, cant be overcharged (due to bms protection) no long absorption charge needed by charging in the winter...these batteries are looking to be the holly grail of batteries. With prices falling, I cant see anyone sticking with lead acid soon.

Adding: These batteries have no real measurable long "roll off" when getting charged, its just charging, charging...full, Just like that. I have been hitting these hard on purpose to see how they behave, draining them right down to nothing and then back up again, I wont keep doing that, but I want to test them hard so I know what to expect. last time I looked at these type ,6 years or more back they didn't have the composition where you could hammer them down to nothing and survive, you had to leave 20%-30% remaining or else you did permanent damage, so battery development has come a long way in a short time.
For funzies, I hit the batteries hard today, Ran the microwave on high while doing a load of laundry, the pressure pump kicking on/off while running all the other house stuff and the battery voltage stayed rock solid above 13 volts.

My meter for keeping track of this type of battery has arrived...and without programing instructions, so it may be a few days before I figure out how to set up this meter. I am at something like 12 weeks using these batteries and I can only say WOW. I am gob smacked at the performance. Lithium iron is the future for (household) stationary storage.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07B4CWKRJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There is no dreaming or wishing for the ideal battery for home power storage , its here now! If you have a RV you will want these, if you use a canoe with electric trolling motor you will want this type of battery. Nothing you can do to hurt it ( I have tried), and 100amphrs@12 volts only weighs 30 pounds!

Peppercorn. So what’s the make of the US battery that is superior to the C+ version?

Peppercorn. So what’s the make of the US battery that is superior to the C+ version?

In my opinion, from what I have read, top tier would go to https://relionbattery.com/ or https://battlebornbatteries.com/ both are highly regarded, I went with Battle Born because in my research I found engineering info regarding the features they were designing into their BMS that I thought gave them a edge. Both are in the same price range. $1200-1300 (Canadian) per 100amphr@12volt

The lower cost one (c +) is a Enerwatt brand lithium battery, 800 Canadian for the same 100amphrs@12 volts. Nothing wrong with the battery, much cheaper, nearly half the cost but it is non stackable, meaning you cant put them in series to make a 24 volt battery or a 48 volt battery. The BMS uses lower voltage/current rated components, thus the lower price. This is absolutely fine so long as 12 volts is all you need, they will work for me because I am going to stay at 12 volts, it works fine for my needs.

When I am done building up my bank I will have half my bank of top quality batteries, and half of the lower cost ones. Make sure you shop around, prices are all over the place.

I have already changed my plans a bit from what I thought I would do just a month ago, I will build my bank up to 4 top quality batteries, and 4 of the more economical ones. I will do this over 2 to 3 years so its not such a big hit in the wallet, but once done I will be siting pretty with nearly 11kwhrs of usable storage. (800x 13.3) I will only really be cycling them roughly a average of 1.3-1.7 kwhrs a day in summer/spring/fall rising to 2 to 3, maybe at worst 3.5 kwhrs a day in winter. I use 4+ kwhrs a day but you have to remember I have lots of solar panels so, during daylight hours my house runs off sunshine, not batteries. Not only runs off sunshine but surplus is available ( from the panels) to charge the batteries back up. One of the reasons I am a big advocate for having large solar arrays.