I hate the false sense of protection people get when thinking of a farradays cage. Farraday's cage was an experiment that current electricity like lightning will travel along the metal components instead of striking anything inside the cage. The cage would protect the monkey in a cage from electrocution. If you are in your car and it gets hit by lightning you would be unharmed in the vehicle because the electric current would travel through the metal parts. Even in a convertible, it the top is up, the metal bars would act as conductors and safely conduct current around a person in that vehicle.
farradays cages do not protect from an EMP, only from lightning! that is a widely accepted old wives tale. Even completely wrapping a pice of electronics in aluminum foil will not shield it from magnetism which an EMP is, it has to be a ferrous steel box as magnetism passes right through aluminum, stainless steel and lead. My farradays cage / EMP protected box is a fire safe: 2 layers of thick steel, and even that is not perfect

If you want to see if something is EMP proof, put a portable radio in the box and turn the volume to full, a walkie-talkie or cell phone; if radio waves get through so will magnetism, if you can hear anything it's no good.

Take it from me, I'm an electrical engineering technician, 15 years electrical work in the field

I understand the basics of the feriday cage
Here is my question about larger cages
If I park a vehicle inside a steel shed well insulated do I have to do the floor in metal as well or would a dirt or wooden floor work.
I am thinking about a quad or motorcycle sized vehicle
Hope there is some one out there that has worked this idea before
Thanks Mule

Mr. Skinner, to answer your question simply - yes. You do need a complete enclosure. A more ideal solution, where vehicles are concerned would be to entertain a vehicle that does not have electronics in my opinion. This is because they will not be impacted. There is no such list available, however, something I've pondered to create in the future. Another alternative, although perhaps not as practical, would be to obtain a backup of all electronics relating to your vehicle. I've gone through several Jeep Cherokee's. The last one I stripped dry of every single electronic device. Furthermore, if you're entertaining a pre-electronic vehicle you may want to consider a diesel engine for the following reasons:

1. Any existing diesel fuel will be around much longer that standard gasoline
2. It can be converted to run off of vegetable oil
3. You can create bio-diesel in which no major conversion is needed to your existing engine

Feel free to contact me if you require details on anything with respect to the above information.

farradays cages do not protect from an EMP

This is not true. There are three main factors that determine the effectiveness of a Faraday cage:

1. The material type and thickness in of which the cage is made of
2. The insulation type and thickness
3. The magnitude and nature (nuclear/solar) of the electro-magnetic pulse

Source: Jerry Emanuelson, B.S.E.E. of http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html (I've spoken with him personally in regards to this).

With that said your statement is quite generic. Can you be more specific as to why you don't think Faraday cages work? I can go into other factors such as nesting Faraday cages and grounding if you would like which also play a role in terms of effectiveness. Faraday cages 'do work', however, as you can see there are many factors surrounding it's effectiveness.

If an oven mitt works against burns when removing something hot from an oven it is not proof positive tha it will work against a volcanic eruption. Reason I say the average faradays cage will not work is because we have no idea how strong a global EMP could be... We have not had one in recent years (since computers are mainstream) to see what we need to protect them. The other thing is material construction; an aluminum box will act like a farradays cage and protect against lightning but not against magnetism. If we have a global EMP even, would a steel box be enough? No way to find out, but think of it this way; a vehicle is a perfect farradays cage, and the ECU is protected again in its own enclosure yet it's not emp proof. Watch after 5:00

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvu08Y9XJ0U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFvu08Y9XJ0U

If an oven mitt works against burns when removing something hot from an oven it is not proof positive tha it will work against a volcanic eruption. Reason I say the average faradays cage will not work is because we have no idea how strong a global EMP could be... We have not had one in recent years (since computers are mainstream) to see what we need to protect them. The other thing is material construction; an aluminum box will act like a farradays cage and protect against lightning but not against magnetism. If we have a global EMP even, would a steel box be enough? No way to find out, but think of it this way; a vehicle is a perfect farradays cage, and the ECU is protected again in its own enclosure yet it's not emp proof. Watch after 5:00

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvu08Y9XJ0U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DFvu08Y9XJ0U

Yes, I've seen that. There is very little information on EMP's and while a dramatized television program does provide some insight and valid information where this specific area of study is concerned I prefer to confirm my information through multiple, credible sources - namely educational institutions and scientists. Thank you for sharing.

the average faradays cage will not work is because we have no idea how strong a global EMP could be...

Your original statement presupposed that Faraday cages would not work at all:

farradays cages do not protect from an EMP, only from lightning!

I clearly pointed out the major factors around this - as per my original response. Your statement, being generic and to use your metaphor with oven mitts, would be like me saying "oven mitts don't work". This statement isn't true just as your original statement about Faraday cages isn't true because it's based on a series of unknowns and as such cannot be answered in certainty. These 'unknowns' are (specifically):

1. The material type and thickness in of which the cage is made of
2. The insulation type and thickness
3. The magnitude and nature (nuclear/solar) of the electro-magnetic pulse

My position is that we understand the concept of Faraday cages and they have been proven to be effective against high doses of electromagnetic energy. With that said, and in consideration of the above factors, the proposition of protecting electronics within a protective shield such as a Faraday cage would be a smart consideration rather then simply accepting that it won't work at all - even though we have no idea of what the particulars may be.

I do agree and recognize that it's possible the magnitude of a large solar flare could supersede any electronic from being protected by any means. However, my logic is in a place where wearing a bullet proof vest is smarter then not wearing one because I will have some degree of 'proven' protection compared to everyone else in a future event in which I cannot predict the type of bullets that could be heading towards of all us.

I suppose more explanation would have been in order, i have seen a lot of DIY "farradays cage" instructions on the web where the author explains to wrap a box in aluminum foul as good enough. But the rest of the paragraph explained it I thought;

farradays cages do not protect from an EMP, only from lightning! that is a widely accepted old wives tale. Even completely wrapping a pice of electronics in aluminum foil will not shield it from magnetism which an EMP is, it has to be a ferrous steel box as magnetism passes right through aluminum, stainless steel and lead. My farradays cage / EMP protected box is a fire safe: 2 layers of thick steel, and even that is not perfect

I said not perfect as it does not have a perfect contact area around the door, while electrically it's isolated magnetically a small gap is a gap, plus the painted areas. It would be better as bare steel lid bolted closed.

I understand the basics of the feriday cage
Here is my question about larger cages
If I park a vehicle inside a steel shed well insulated do I have to do the floor in metal as well or would a dirt or wooden floor work.
I am thinking about a quad or motorcycle sized vehicle
Hope there is some one out there that has worked this idea before
Thanks Mule

Mr. Skinner, to answer your question simply - yes. You do need a complete enclosure. A more ideal solution, where vehicles are concerned would be to entertain a vehicle that does not have electronics in my opinion. This is because they will not be impacted. There is no such list available, however, something I've pondered to create in the future. Another alternative, although perhaps not as practical, would be to obtain a backup of all electronics relating to your vehicle. I've gone through several Jeep Cherokee's. The last one I stripped dry of every single electronic device. Furthermore, if you're entertaining a pre-electronic vehicle you may want to consider a diesel engine for the following reasons:

1. Any existing diesel fuel will be around much longer that standard gasoline
2. It can be converted to run off of vegetable oil
3. You can create bio-diesel in which no major conversion is needed to your existing engine

Feel free to contact me if you require details on anything with respect to the above information.

farradays cages do not protect from an EMP

This is not true. There are three main factors that determine the effectiveness of a Faraday cage:

1. The material type and thickness in of which the cage is made of
2. The insulation type and thickness
3. The magnitude and nature (nuclear/solar) of the electro-magnetic pulse

Source: Jerry Emanuelson, B.S.E.E. of http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html (I've spoken with him personally in regards to this).

With that said your statement is quite generic. Can you be more specific as to why you don't think Faraday cages work? I can go into other factors such as nesting Faraday cages and grounding if you would like which also play a role in terms of effectiveness. Faraday cages 'do work', however, as you can see there are many factors surrounding it's effectiveness.

I totally agree with Che, diesel will last atleast 10 years if in a full container. and you can add stabilzer and cetane treatment to it to make it last even longer. gasoline is 2 years. Kerosene I believe is the longest something like 12 or something. If you use B100 then you need to convert the vehicle a bit to prevbent gelling. usually means insulating the fuel lines and putting in a pre-heater to the fuel. B20 requires nothing really and same for B5. NOTE: The fastest Diesel on record ran on B20