Since this particular thread is about guns, I thought that it would be appropriate to mention that last night 3 people were shot to death at the University of Alberta. This is bad enough in itself. For me it hits close to home. One of the dead was a friend and co-worker. His wife and mine are also friends and co-workers. My friend worked part time security at the UofA. He is survived by a wife and two young sons. He will be missed.

I was very saddened by the news. And even more to find out it was a coworker going out with them that did this. Heartless.

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Hey Gravelore,laws are for the living. Lawyers and criminals alike. Those victims in Alberta have nothing. We need laws that recognize the impossible task of preventing violent crimes.

I say we ban bad guys.
Or make them fear good guys. You know what bad guys with guns are afraid of? Good guys with guns.

I don't remember the town in Arizona or Texas but the local ordinance requires all healthy adults to carry a gun. There is virtually no violent crime there. Can you imagine someone going into the local 7eleven to pull an armed robbery and all the shoppers pulling out their guns. 😯 😮 😆 😆

Taz - I'm so sorry for your loss. Sending hugs for you.

How are those Gun laws working out for us. Scrape all gun registries like the PAL (someone who gets this may go bat shit crazy in a year after anyhow) and make it so we can carry. If someone wants to kill they will do it anyway. Our laws are only good for lawyers.

If I understand what happened, they were ARMED security guards doing a cash drop for ATMs. They were carrying handguns and were trained in their basic use. Concealed carry would not have helped one iota, nor would abolishing a registry. Go back to my earlier comments on this very thread. Attackers will always have the benefit of initiative. You will, in 99.99% of situations have to react to an agressor's move. They naturally have the advantage.

Think about this. 4 trained and armed individuals got killed/incapacitated, and not one bad guy got hit (that we know of). Makes you rethink your defensive expectations.

http://www.amazon.ca/Principles-Personal-Defense-Jeff-Cooper/dp/0873644972 <-read this if you want to better understand. It is short and simple.

An aside to your comment Mr. Momo.... you are correct when you say that the aggressor will always have the upper hand as they know what they are going to do and when. The average prepper though will or should have an elevated level of situational awareness that may at least telegraph anothers intentions. That said in the example you gave there was no reason for any of the Officers to have any inkling that something was amiss or that there was any kind of threat. He was one of them.. on their side. He could have been behind them with all their backs to him.. slipped out his gun and shot them all within seconds never knowing what hit them. To quote you..."Think about this. 4 trained and armed individuals got killed/incapacitated, and not one bad guy got hit (that we know of). Makes you rethink your defensive expectations." In any given situation I am aware of my surroundings, who is in them, I have sized up what I will term risk based on body language etc and act accordingly. No concealed carry wouldn't have helped them at all since the threat was their own guy. IF the general population had a different mindset and DID have concealed carry then perhaps in a similar situation a civilian could have intervened during or even after the event. You have beed trained by society to let someone else take care of you... Good luck with that.

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I completely agree with JAB. Most criminals are opportunists, most criminals are not suicidal. If they know they have a good chance of getting away with it they will take that chance. If they think their life is in peril they will not take that chance. The police are a reactive force and hardly ever be in a position to prevent a crime unless they happen to be in the right place at the right time. The chances of that are slim at best.

Indeed that's why alot more places are contracting security companies to protect their businesses and products so that they can have someone on scene who is responsible and liable for their actions as well as a representative for their business, a security guard fails to protect a businesses interests, then the guard or company can be held liable, if their actions were not justifiable. which businesses like as it gives them a sense of security (no pun intended), where as if a business was robbed and they didn't have security, they would have to wait for the police to arrive on scene who would then instruct the business owner that they would do their best to find and apprehend the culprits, which they would, but sadly a far percentage do end up getting away. Mind you i am not in anyway putting down police officers as they do us all a great service and my hat goes off to them, its just like ICRCC said the police are a reactive force and it takes them time to arrive at any kind of scene. And although 95% of criminals are opportunists its the other 5% who are just pure crazy evil that you have to watch out for. that is why i can't stress enough for people to know their rights and what they can legally do to protect themselves, others and their property. I think i will get a list of the laws that would help along those lines and compile them into a thread for all to view and read!

I'd like to throw a wrench in here that if the SHTF, it might be someone in authority who may be the problem.
I think we all agree that we would have to defend ourselves against a group of lawless crazies, but what do you do when the threat comes from someone wearing a uniform? Maybe this is being the devils advocate, but it's a thought.

I'd like to throw a wrench in here that if the SHTF, it might be someone in authority who may be the problem.
I think we all agree that we would have to defend ourselves against a group of lawless crazies, but what do you do when the threat comes from someone wearing a uniform? Maybe this is being the devils advocate, but it's a thought.

Above i was referring to pre shtf but no Greenguy your right even today in this day and age service people are crooked. when shtf the only law is to survive and protect those you love, whether its from roving gangs or renegade cops is of no importance, because when society collapses power reverts back to the people, and the only power police will have will be the .40 on their waste, again this is also just a thought.

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Unless you personally know the police officer, and I mean REALLY KNOW the person, this first-class advice. Thanks Gravlore.