This topic could also be called "Saving on Rent While Trying Out a BOV"...
I can't take credit for this post, having taken ideas elsewhere, but it seems fitting here, especially with the economy situation looking less than ideal.
In hard times, one of the best ways to cut expenses quickly and for as long as you need relief, is to stop paying rent. Once you find yourself living beyond your income, you are really living on borrowed time. It is at this point that you have to make lifestyle changes before bill collectors take all you still possess. This requires you to sell all that is possible to eliminate your debt. You also have to reduce your remaining valuables down to only that which you can fit into your new home anyways. And determining the size of this new home depends on the size of your wallet when all else is sold.
Below is a list of possible homes on wheels, and the goods and bads of each option. A bonus is that There are many variables to consider before you buy. Thus your final choice depends on such factors as:
• monthly expenses/debts that need to be met once this change is started
• regions bylaws and restrictions as to where you'll park at night
• potential cost for fines and alternative parking to reduce further fines
• amount of daily travel required for work, washrooms, laundry, etc with these costs factored in
• when you eventually resell it, you may even get the major part of your money back.
• can you make agreements with friends for continual parking?
Prearranged Parking
• Do you have other friends/relatives property for parking as fallback?
• monthly/yearly costs for parking at nearby campgrounds as fallback plan
• Walmart and similar parking Lots
Free Overnight Parking Options
• Truck Stops and any other places you see big rigs parked
• Roadside rest stops that specify not for overnight stays
• Casinos and RV Sales outlets(where you look like a waiting customer)
OPTION #1 - Older Luxury Cars ($500-$2,500)
The luxury models will attract less attention and provide a better night's sleep. Good for single person during short period(not in winter), and mainly to get back on one's feet. Sleeping in automobiles during cool nights becomes obvious to passersby due to condensation buildup formed on windows.
The Goods:
• usually low mileage and reliable as seniors owned them
• purchase well below book value as most folks don't want them
• insurance is cheaper
• park in residential areas or anywhere at night (=no fees)
• Comfy reclining seats and lots of leg room
• Tinted Windows limit view into vehicle
• maybe add a roof rack with locking pod
• luxury car also attracts less police attention
• great for towing trailers
The Bads:
• pigs on gas, around 20-25 MPG
• it's usually obvious your living in it to every passerby
• must travel for food, bathroom, etc.
• hard not to have that overall appearance like your roughing it
OPTION #2 - The Modified Van aka Camper Van ($2500-$10,000)
A van is an obvious step up from sleeping in a car. Still tough for more than one person to live in but tolerable for a short term. You will still have to make further purchases to be set up for living in it.
The Goods:
• Use a van with tinted windows and add curtains. When left parked , keep all curtains open and interior clean and organized, so folks will see there is nothing to steal.
• Mount a retractable awning for shade and cover from wind and rain.
• add a full roof rack for added storage and cooler interior from the added shade
• install water holding tank and pump for basic running water
• add a port-a-potti for washroom facilities
• get a comfortable bed for a good sleep
The Bads:
• still limited to public facilities or sponge baths
• hard to cook outside and go unnoticed unless in a campground
• vans with extended roofs tends to draw greater attention in residential areas
• the older the model, the more attention it draws from local authorities
OPTION #3 - Converted Cargo Trailer($1500-$9000)
This is another option when trying to remain unnoticed. A cargo trailer is presumed for cargo and so likely ignored by the public. It provides more living space and frees up tow vehicle for daily routine. For someone a bit handy, it is relatively easy to build a very comfortable interior.
The Goods:
• enclosed single axle trailers only can be parked in residential areas
• Wedged nose over hitch can make small washroom
• easily insulated and wired for camping
• add roof rack for more storage
• add tinted sliding windows for privacy and ventilation
• can even be left unhitched for short periods of time without much notice.
• can be used just for hauling or storing things in otherwise
The Bads:
• the bigger the trailer, the more obvious attention it draws
• Mounted retractable awning suggests trailers actual purpose
• can be easily stolen when detached(wheel chock blocks suggested)
• poor ventilation
• tandem axle trailers have greater restrictions in residential areas
OPTION #4 - Tent Trailer ($500-$3000)
This is really just a tent on wheels. Great for camping, but overall, not so great for living out of in an urban environment or on the road.
The Goods:
• They are can be pulled easily by those with only a small car
• no other insurance required
• roof rack mounts extras such as bicycles, pod, tarps, etc.
• Mount a retractable awning for shade and cover from wind and rain.
• great for storing your emergency preps (and camping too)
• provides family emergency shelter away from home
The Bads:
• longer setups as leveling required, than assembly
• in rain, they get soggy like any other tent does
• difficult to heat in cold weather and easy to catch on fire
• lots of outside noise comes thru when trying to sleep
• not safe from dangers such as bears or bandits
• limited to camp grounds as setup elsewhere draws attention
• costly to buy in good condition and costly to maintain
You can buy a tent trailer with wroughted canvas for a song ($200 is great). Build 1/4" plywood walls and add 1" blue SM foam(7.5R value), you can have a small hardwall insulated trailer for under $300 worth of materials. Use the original top as your roof, and maybe design foldout walls for bedrooms still.
OPTION #5 - Travel Trailer($3500-$30,000)
Covers a variety of possible sizes from 12 to 30 feet long. The bigger the trailer, the more expensive and the bigger the tow vehicle required to pull it.
The Goods:
• requires no additional insurance
• roll out awning doubles sq.ft. space for outdoor cooking, provides shade, blocks wind and rain, yet stores away quickly
• furnished, full bathroom features, power and sewer hookups
• best option for long term plan if you have pre-arranged parking
The Bads:
• older and less expensive trailers weigh more and yet cost more than many RVs of equivalent age.
• takes longer to setup as they often need jacking and leveling
• draws more attention other than overnight stays at parks
• not tolerated at urban sites like streets or parking lots
• the older less expensive units are far heavier and poorer quality
OPTION #6 - Converted Buses ($3500-$10,000)
This really cover everything from 10-48 seating capacity. The overall viewpoint of the common public sees converted buses as something only gypsy / hippy type folks would opt for. This means they are then seen as something not wanted. An added bonus however is that Cernunnos5 might turn up to give you some pointers! 😉
The Goods:
• built to last and tough as nails on any roads
• modifiable to meet your specific needs
• add strong roof racks, bumpers, hitches, winches
• roll out awning doubles sq.ft. space for outdoor cooking, provides shade, blocks wind and rain, yet stores away quickly
• rarely leaks and never wroughts out as RVs do
The Bads:
• too many windows to heat or cool properly, unless all covered or replace during modification
• expensive to convert properly
• expensive to insure
• may require air endorsement if it has airbrakes
• heat score when parking overnight anywhere but campgrounds
OPTION 7 - Motorhomes($5000-$50,000)
A motorhome can solve many issues of your basic comforts for an extended period of time. They don't draw unwanted attention as much as a converted bus does as they make one appear more as a holidayer and less a transient.
The Goods:
• Cheap to buy as many dump their expensive toys (a 20-30 year old costs $5,000 - $10,000)
• insurance is tolerable as viewed as secondary transportation only.
• most have low mileage (under 100,000) and so are still reliable
• all comforts of home - hot & cold water, AC and heaters, power inverters, generator, bathroom, beds, minimalist storage
• allows for quick and simple setup and relocation if the need arises
• roll out awning doubles sq.ft. space for outdoor cooking, provides shade, blocks wind and rain, yet stores away quickly
• avoid campground fees by staying in parking lots and truckstops
• roof rack for more secure out of sight storage
• add hitch to tow either vehicle or a trailer
The Bads:
• expensive to travel distance with (most 20+ft average 8 MPG on gas)
• the longer they are, the harder they are to drive, especially in heavy traffic
• The greater the overhang behind rear wheels, the less clearance for entrances with incline to such as gas stops, campgrounds, parking lots.
Considerations When Choosing:
• Aluminum siding eventually oxidizes and allows in moisture whereas fiberglass lasts forever. Important issue on salted roads or vehicles over 20 years old
• many roofs leak and wood wrought ensues. Walk on the roof before you buy and check for soft spots
• wheelbase is often the same on 27 footer vs 34 footer. The overhang creates many bad handling issues when towing and such.
• many folks focus mainly on floorplan instead of chassis, drivetrain, engine and construction. Drive it before you buy it!
• try to score a diesel over a gas driven motor. This is because they are more powerful and economical, plus diesel fuel remains stable for 5 years vs 6 months on today's gas.
• Tell insurance company it's only used for holidays and no, you don't plan on pulling anything...
I will try to keep this short. I have been thinking about this subject recently for three reasons. 1- Alberta refugees. 2- Minimum Wage/Service industry. 3- We got a Honda civic because the Corolla and Ford Ranger both tapped out. (how could I live in a Honda civic- A puzzle only C5 would think about)
Alberta Refugees. Self explanatory. I should trademark the term because I am sure than I am the first person to put those two words together. Advice. Move into your vehicle long before your money runs out. There are still a lot of costs involved in living in your vehicle.
Minimum wage. The only way for you to, A- pay off your student loans, or B- Save up money to buy cheap land in BF nowhere (or buy into my prepper farm) is to caveman up and move into your vehicle for a few years to save every penny.
The Honda civic. In the end, all you need is a place to sleep out of the elements. Removing the rear seats gives you direct access to the trunk. Room for a small bed. There is always removing the passenger seat if you are 6,4 like me. Hey. Its light years better than sleeping in the street, squats or a dome tent.
They key thing to remember- Its only where you sleep, not where you live. Life is happening outside.
Any size you think you need---go smaller. Small means mobility, lower profile and greater options.
If I had to do it all again I would chose a simple cargo van. No windows. Something that looks like a city utilities vehicle or contractors van. There is a reason people jokingly call those vans, serial killer vans. The are not noticed...and handy for hiding a body.lol..yours.
When you finally find your place of safety...It can be repurposed into Dry Storage
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
I will cut and paste this from the forum post I think helcopilot was thinking of-
"My first rolling home was simple to the max. A simple window van. A single bed. Fully curtained so it seemed like living in a tent. Storage under the bed. a wood box as a table to cook on with a wisperlight stove. I basically set myself adrift on a permanent camping trip. Good buy rent. Good buy room mates. I don't know when it hit me that it was also, Good buy society. I had just left the matrix. As I spent my first evening parking in public, the reality began to hit me like a wallop. The survival reality questions set in fast. OMG. What the hell did I just do? Where will I get water. Where can I take a sh!t? How will I wash? Where will I get rid of my garbage? Its the west coast but can I handle the winter? Where will I be safe? WHERE WILL I GET MAIL? How can I renew my insurance? Heck, even my ID and Drivers Licence. Is it even valid anymore because of the address. I don't have an address any more... and then it really set in. I AM ILLEGAL simply by being. Sleeping in this van means I am breaking the law. That was one wake up call. Do you notice how all of those questions I asked are the basic survival questions of prepping. What happens when society stops...and we have to suddenly figure this sh!t out on our own, independent of a functioning system. I thought I had some survival training before...But this was like going off to Survivalist University. I had a lot to learn. I was frightened and I was alone and the reality set in. It was like I had just gone through a break up or divorce. I'm sure you all know what that feeling is like. Only this time it was a divorce from most of the privileges and safety of society. Oh why didn't I just take the blue pill?'
I live completely different now but I try to continue teaching on this subject...because when I looked into my crystal ball...this subject was GOING to be a big part of life for anyone that doesn't have fully paid for land or relatives that are willing to take them in. The, GOING to be, part...is now arriving. I'm guessing this is why helicopilot is bring the subject back into peoples minds.
If the idea seems SCARY...or...insulting of your god given expectations of privilege....this should make you feel alittle more at ease-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kFqdWesW0o
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
Well, Glenn Fry died yesterday. I cant say I was a fan but like many things, he was part of the backdrop of life. Famous people of our lifes backdrop have been dropping off like flies this last year. Its the sound of the Baby Boomer Bubble Bursting. Bowie and Moterhead become the soundtrack to the deflation era.
I never thought of this song as a prepper song...but in the context of this post...it definitely is...with some good advice that sounds straight from the mouth of C5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI3F687SsoU
"Lighten up while you still can. Don't even try to understand. Just find a place to take your stand and take it easy....You may lose and you may win but we will never be here again so open up. I"m climbing in...and take it easy.
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
O.K. Check this out. I am impressed. Its a bit "Too much" but well thought out. I love the bed. I love the cameras. My experience...those cameras would have made me feel so much more secure. Just found this today
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
O.K. Check this out. I am impressed. Its a bit "Too much" but well thought out. I love the bed. I love the cameras. My experience...those cameras would have made me feel so much more secure. Just found this today
Impressive indeed. Would need a bit more mods to make it big enough for a couple, but that is quite well done. Surviving with class! Too bad them damn zombies keep getting in the way of my XBoX game! Maybe it's the woofers or the flashing LED lights that keeps attracting them? 😛
This came in yesterday and I thought it should go here. Now, these two are far less competent...but so are most people. The part that is interesting...is how they changed over time. They got tougher. They got used to it with experience...and so can anyone else. Also, they started in a motorhome but eventually evolved to a...guess what...a cargo van. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HThxvhzR0g0
This brings up another subject- The two vehicle option. Costs twice as much but if you have two income earners, one plus one equals four. More room. One can stay stationary while the other one moves or both can convoy. One can be bigger and the other smaller when gas is at a premium.
Two is one and one is non. It was a big fear living in the vehicle. If it broke down...or burned...or was impounded... not only did I lose my home and place to sleep that night, I would lose all my gear as well. Two vehicles also means you can own more stuff...like tools to fix the broken down vehicle
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
Interesting idea - another way to save on rent is to fully own your house 🙂 lol
Interesting idea - another way to save on rent is to fully own your house 🙂 lol
Amen to that! The suggestion above though may appeal to someone who's starting out in life and would like to save enough money to buy a house. Perhaps start with a tiny house owned outright, keep saving, then upgrade as time goes.
I laugh so hard when I watch (errr, I mean Mrs HP watches) HGTV and you see a 22 year old couple, no kids, just had their first real job for a year, 10s of $1000 in school debt, telling the host they are looking for a 1,500+ sqft house, all upgraded, granit, double garage and a big yard. 😆 🙄
I'm experiencing a bit of "Nerd Luv" at the moment. I do a lot of killing time till the spring. Its always an endurance test. Mrs C5 and myself have been working our way through the X Files. If you happen to have Netflix, check out season 5, episode 11. I chucked a couple times to the mrs, "These are places you could expect to find me living". I supposed the shipping container thing started here. 3 places you could expect to play , Where is Waldo C5.
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
Now, this song is Far Far more appropriate to this post. The graphics are appropriate as well.
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
One again it seems I was just alittle ahead of the curve. This came in today. https://www.vice.com/read/living-out-of-your-car-is-the-new-american-dream
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
Very interesting reading guys!
Not to much comment on it, having lived for months at time in trailer when following my dad on the pipeline to camp jobs, I know that even a family can do so.. and for about five years I have a rule that if I could not pack it in the wagon, then I did not own it or it was got second hand and left or resold, I loved the freedom of being able to pack up and move in one car load..
but Its been a long while since I could do that.. the farm has certainly allowed me to expand the amount of stuff I have and in many ways its great and in some ways its not so great..
but I came here to be on point..
Thought you might find this news link interesting..
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/jingle-mail-alberta-housing-1.3430867
based on the comment about folks in alberta having issues.. so far my own family members are holding well but time will see how that goes..
http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/
Yes. I was wanting to give a warning about this as well. Nomadic living has a time limit. It ends when your money runs out or your vehicle breaks down. It is a short term solution.
Self sufficiency requires a lot of stuff. You grow a lot of stuff and have to store a lot of stuff.
The article farmgal brought up is poignant. For those whose Plan A is to Bug Out...Alberta is the only province that you can walk away from your mortgage....wich may change at any time...or worse, retroactive law change to protect the banks. Everywhere else...they will come after you until they get every penny they are owed. Even bank failure wont protect you because they will sell your debt to someone else. If they cant find you...they will put out a warrant.
This is why we got out of our mortgage early. Perhaps a few years too early...but what can I say. Im just a bit ahead of the curve. Think this is bad? Just wait till the retiring Boomers start trying to sell their assets
I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.
Very interesting reading guys!
Thought you might find this news link interesting..
It was interesting, I remember the time the article speaks of well....I shed no tears for the banks...ever.
Reading through the comments at the end of the article was a link to a fellow named Hans Rosling. I had never heard of him, The following is just a random youtube vid of his I found https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjVHvC9EeB4 should anyone wish to find him, he has many on you tube.. While I don't agree with all he says especially when he extrapolates data out to 2100 he presents data in a well thought out way, with first rate graphics. So you inadvertently provided a secondary news link of interest.
Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.
