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What Do You Put In Your Faraday Cage?

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(@thecrownsown)
Prominent Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 858
Topic starter  

I'm wondering what equipment you put in your faraday cage? Sure, I've put in an emergency wind up radio and wind up flashlights. But what else do you put in them?

Is putting an old smart phone loaded with books/manuals a good idea? or tablet? Or is it wishful thinking with limited battery life? Do you need to put batteries in a faraday cage or will they weather an emp?

What are some of the most import things to put in one? What are some things I should be adding? I have that true and tried "metal garbage can" model. So space is limited, but willing to build bigger if necessity requires.

https://www.internationalpreppersnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=7738


   
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Wayne
(@wayne)
Honorable Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 687
 

I find this topic very confusing. It seems that there are multiple positions taken: the Faraday cage is the answer; to EMP is such a remote possibility that the threat doesn't need to be addressed; to just turn off your equipment and have a circuit breaker; to unless you're targeted specifically (military installation) don't worry about it.

Several things I've read have mentioned that short wired electronics are at low risk (unplugged computers) and that Cell phones have even less to worry about. Again much information/misinformation is available. In a nutshell, I haven't been able to establish that this is enough of a sustainable threat for it to take preference over other preparations (time, storage space, investment) that it warrants procurement.

Obviously you do, so I'll ask you for your opinion. Any guidance is appreciated. What is the real risk?

None you improvise, one (or more) is luxury.


   
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(@helicopilot)
Member Moderator
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1487
 

Question for those with more experience on the topic...

I have a large metallic fireproof gun vault. I’ve been keeping some back up electronics in there, mostly out of convenient sto rage, but also because it has dehumidifiers that keeps things climate controlled. Would this setup work for an EMP? I’ve tried the whole cellphone in it and see if it rings, but living in the country side, I’m already lucky if I get reception standing by the kitchen window... so putting a cell in a metal box in the basement pretty much invalidates any tests I can do.

As for storing, I have an emergency multi band radio, my FRS radios and a few Baofeng radios. I also have a solar battery charger.


   
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(@denob)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2752
 

I have absolutely nothing in a faraday cage...at this time.
This is due to research that appears to oppose the common belief that "everything" will be fried combined with my belief in the likelyhood of an emp attack.
That being said, it would appear that solar panels that are NOT connected would survive an emp. Some sources claim no effect at all while others claim no more than a 5% reduction in performance. Either way, I am going to trust that disconnected solar panels will be OK.
I would also point out that all though emp is low on my priority list, it IS still on the list. I'm starting to look at emp bags for a few items that would include:
1 - solar charge controller
2 - a couple baofeng radios
3 - a backup HF ham radio
4 - a tablet loaded with whatever I have not had the chance to print out
5 - various usb keys with personal info and documents as well as various other information
6 - a small laptop that I mostly use for ham radio stuff, but is capable of other applications

This is by no means a finalized list...I may add other items as I think of them.
If you follow the 2 is 1 and 1 is none rule, then you probably already have backup items that could be put in a faraday cage, or at least be looking at getting them. In the end, the investment in a faraday cage seems reasonable, so what could it hurt?


   
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(@thecrownsown)
Prominent Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 858
Topic starter  

Question for those with more experience on the topic...

I have a large metallic fireproof gun vault. I’ve been keeping some back up electronics in there, mostly out of convenient sto rage, but also because it has dehumidifiers that keeps things climate controlled. Would this setup work for an EMP? I’ve tried the whole cellphone in it and see if it rings, but living in the country side, I’m already lucky if I get reception standing by the kitchen window... so putting a cell in a metal box in the basement pretty much invalidates any tests I can do.

As for storing, I have an emergency multi band radio, my FRS radios and a few Baofeng radios. I also have a solar battery charger.

My limited experience:
-My cell phone will not accept calls, but will accept data in a metal "garbage can" style farady cage.
-My cell phone will not accept calls, or data and is pretty much intert when I keep it in my gun locker. The locker is thick metal, and insulated with carpet on the inside....

-I was making a small EMP machine...but have just collected some of the components. The fact it is literally a tazer before you modify it into something that will provide a significant EMP is....problematic. Will keep ya posted.

https://www.internationalpreppersnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=7738


   
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(@hopeimready)
Reputable Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 445
 

I have a small fireproof safe which I am pretty sure will act as a faraday cage (I've kinda tested it) - in it I have backup USB sticks with critical docs, my baofeng UV5R, my solar charger for USB and a solar lantern. They do not take up much space, and lots of room for my other paper documents, passport, etc. Even if it does not work as a faraday cage it will protect against fire 😉

HopeImReady
"The thing about smart mother f*ckers, is that they sometimes sound like crazy mother f*ckers to dumb mother f*ckers." -Abraham .”


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
 

I have nothing in a faraday cage, nothing. No plans to get one. I have added protection to my inverter and panels but not because I fear emp or solar flares rather lightening, so I hardened them as they would be the most likely to fail with the greatest consequences do to such a strike. Back in roughly 2000-2005 I must have lost 4 dialup modem boards due to lightening. After about 2006 They started building the boards better and I never lost one after that.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@tazweiss)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 616
 

That being said, it would appear that solar panels that are NOT connected would survive an emp. Some sources claim no effect at all while others claim no more than a 5% reduction in performance. Either way, I am going to trust that disconnected solar panels will be OK.

Research Starfish Prime. In July 1962, the U.S. conducted high altitude nuclear tests. The resulting EMP caused catastrophic failure to several satellites. The major portion of the damage was to the solar panels on the satellites.

Those who are unwilling to defend freedom, will become unfree.


   
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(@denob)
Member Admin
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 2752
 

yes...but the point to remember is that those solar panels were connected and being used at the time. I was refering to unconnected panels.


   
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(@kootenay-prepper)
Active Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 15
 

A metal gun case is said to work as a faraday cage as long as the metal is tight fitting where the door is or the RF energy radio waves will go through the cracks and damage the electronics. Double metal layer improves chances of them working and having a insulation layer between the metal and the electronics such as rubber is needed. People sometimes wrap the electronics in tin foil for the extra protection in the faraday cage.

Doesn’t have to be a man made emp as strong solar flares are said to cause a emp burst.

Might be a time when I make a faraday cage but at this time I put my energy towards learning useful skills as technology can be to unreliable with or without a emp occuring.


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
 

Research Starfish Prime. In July 1962, the U.S. conducted high altitude nuclear tests. The resulting EMP caused catastrophic failure to several satellites. The major portion of the damage was to the solar panels on the satellites.

Yes research and think about the validity of what you read. First point "The resulting EMP caused catastrophic Failure to satellities" No it did not , it may have (likely) contributed to a earlier failure of a couple satelites, satelites that were destined to early failure anyway. The EMP was long since done but the charge it left behind added to the Vanhalen belt charge, that satelites passed through.
As the engineers had no real understanding of the effects of radiation on transistors, they did not even include basic shielding on semiconductors. Now days there is a entirly different internal construction used in semiconductors that are subjected to space travel or radiation heavy enviroments. They had just discovered the Van halen belts, but had yet to understand the effects and damage that these charged areas could do.

Where did they launch Telstar 1, Right into the Van Halen Belt, and by the way it was launched a day after the Starfish test. Telstar1 lasted less than a year, Telstar 2, launched a year later did better, lasting 2 years in service.
They did launch Telstar 2 higher, so it spent less time in the Van halen belts during orbits, this likely gave it a longer life.

Even the one satelite most everyone argees was subjected to the greatest effect of starfish prime, Ariel 1 was not taken out by The emp blast but rather failed 4 days later, and I believe that was likely from repeatedly passing through the consentrated charged areas generated by the blast, and from memory these areas could have lasted as long as 5 months (I might be wrong on that).

Other Satelites are suspected of failing early as well, but the take away, is dont fly your satelites in the Vanhalen belts or through the ionised clouds left behind from EMP tests, or other high bursts.

So for us, lets not take our panels up near the Vanhalen belts (at speed) or through charged (ionised clouds), and all should be fine,

PS, just was looking at the specs of Telstar 1 and 2, 2 is just a little heavier. So not only did they raise Telstar 2 higher (more out of the Vanhalen belt) than Telstar 1, I would suspect they added some shielding...so they were learning. Ofcourse when your submitting your insurance claim as to why your Satelite failed, its better to claim the damage was caused by something external, rather than admitting your engineers didn't understand the effects of radiation outside our atmosphere on semi conductors...

This from Scientific America....But the engineers could stave off the inevitable only so long: In February 1963 accumulating radiation damage finally caused Telstar 1's transistors to fail irreparably. Fortunately, the energized electrons had dissipated when NASA launched Telstar 2 a year later. By that time both the U.S. and Soviet Union had ceased high-altitude nuclear testing.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
 

Warning....I am off on a tangent....stand back..

I was reading more about that Starfish test, it looks to me like a lot of exaggeration is going on, from reporters looking to get views, to people looking to whip up fear, I seen it with the year 2000 and all the computers were going to crash BS.

Some street lights went out in Hawaii, likely only until the breakers were reset and some burglar alarms went off. I can set some burglar alarms off(and car alarms) just driving a straight pipe Harley (and it wont cost millions of dollars).....I yawn at the impotence of Mericas test.

Did cars stop working...nope
trains....nope
tv,s...nope
toasters....nope
stoves...nope
flashlights....nope
hairdriers...nope
Taps shut off...nope
blenders fail...nope
table saws blown up...nope
wheelbarrels....nope
Lost days of work?

Where where all the insurance claims about damage?....I cant find any?
Claims from shipping companies? there would have been many (ships)in the area, and you can be certain if any damage was done claims would have been made!
The test happened at one hour to midnight, So someone going to bed at that time would have gotten up in the morning and never known that they were subjected to a Emp. See why I am not impressed...….

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2117
 

Alrighty... I waisted a lot of time reading. So much BS out there..I read reports of all the street lights being blown out, to other equally absurd things. Nothing of the sort happened. A real report was done on the effects, by the guys who can work a slide rule, and were there at the time. The link below. Here is the synopsis, 30 strings of lights went out. That's it! 1% of the total street lighting in Hawaii, in other words next to none unless you are trying to make a big deal out of it.
Absolutely no damage was done to any of the street lighting (see page 6 last line second paragraph) Only, and I will put this in caps, JUST FUSES blew. 30 fuses did just what they are designed to do...blow and protect the circuit. NO BIG DEAL!! and it was estimated that 4 to 5 blow just during a normal storm. No transformers damaged, no switch gear burnt up, just a few blown fuses.

http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/SDAN/0031.pdf

In the report they use the word "damage" to circuits, but they mean blown fuses, blown lead fuses. When the circuit fuse blows that circuit is called damaged, until its repaired, in this case by replacing the fuse.

Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
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(@tazweiss)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 616
 

Starfish Prime took place in 1962. EMPs tend to fry computer chips and microcircuits. In 1962, I don't think there were a lot of cars that had microcircuits or computer chips. Ditto for televisions, radios, telephone lines, appliances, etc., etc. The nuclear tests conducted under Starfish Prime were not intended for EMP. The EMP recorded during the tests was an unintended side effect and not all that powerful. Nowadays, there are warheads that are designed to produce quite powerful EMPs.
Personally, I would err on the side of prudence if it came to a choice of faraday cage or no faraday cage.

Those who are unwilling to defend freedom, will become unfree.


   
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(@dougm)
Eminent Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 41
 

My problem with the risk assessment models is; think of the bang the bad guys get for their buck. One crappie missile fired straight up from coastal america with a big bang on the end and most of north america is back in the stone age. It wouldn't come with a return address so who pays. Lightning is like a fly fart in a wind storm compared to a EMP weapon and I have seen lightning fry a shiny Mustang and never leave a mark. Most things run on AC so I think an inverter in a rubber lined can is a good start. Solar panels might be damaged but they can be fixed, batteries survive I'm told. Then it is about what tech do you want or need to save.


   
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