Well there isn't much snow yet and it's not too cold as yet either. I don't envy you trying to find an arrow on the prairies as you can't have a backstop tree as I do. Yet these crossbows shoot 150 lbs so I doubt the shaft would be great after a tree strike either. Aluminum might survive another day with some folding at the insert but carbon fibers would be scarey to shoot a second time after a tree strike at that poundage as they can blow apart in your face. I got enough damaged shafts with 65-75 lb. Judo's were my choice for shooting in grass regions for small game other than the rubber blunts on the wood.

I'm betting that you won't feel much difference with crossbows as you use leverage to even draw them. Maybe you'll find it easier to draw but that is about it as the pulley system won't give you much of a sense of feel.. As you draw a bow, especially a recurve, in the winter, you feel like the bow has lost it's will to kill after about 20 below. I used to snowshoe alot and after a cold spell of 40 below, 20 seems nice. We don't have the winds like the prairies do unless your out on the lakes. It usually only snows when it's warm so hunting when show is falling often means your just out getting exercise.

Let me know how you find the limbs act as I am curious but not enough to throw the wife's arrows away! 😆

And as for the pellet gun, I never knew it could fill the gap somewhat as it does. I find that a quality pellet rifle is quite the killing machine and spend lots of time now comparing pellets and noting how loose ones fly versus the tight ones, etc. Once I changed to a decent scope, I can make consistent 25 yard head shots on any game bird as the grouping is usually toonie sized overall.

The cost isn't worth even the mention as it is so little. The likelihood that this would become everyone's primary weapon is a given for small game. And you can practice your shooting form daily in your own back yard. This form consists of getting steady, breathing squeezing all the way after the shot , you know the drill... So this too can be a way of perfecting those skills for your larger rifles without having to run to the gun range as often to make them 2nd nature. The swinging target is a must so you don't have to wonder if the short was worthy. And even the old guys like myself with failing eyes can get in on this action still with a decent scope attached.

I have a friend who is my age went out and bought a $300 Gamo to join me in some shootouts. His stock scope is crap also and he now sees that it must go too. I have still only killed what wanders into my yard but the count for this rifle is already somewhere over 20 varmints(tree killing birds and squirrels mostly) and 2 partridge. Not a single skunk this year and that too is strange....Country living at least has some options better TV anyways!

Were not going up near you it will be mainly 5-6 hours North of Toronto. My crossbow is a 180 pounds and in the years I have used it I have not broken any bolts on trees, wood backstop etc. I have damaged several but I have all the tools to repair those and that's part of my hobby too. As for using the bows I am not so sure. Hunting in -20 doesn't seem like a good idea to me and as the Hunting seasons falls we don't experience those hunting temperatures that often down here. Maybe up near you it does and I do remember it being very cold when I lived in Thunder Bay during the Hunting season. All my bow hunting has been done in nice easily enjoyable temperatures. But of course we are talking about shtf and potentially hunting when there is no seasons or regulations to follow so one may be in a situation where it is necessary even in -20 degree weather :).

I will keep you updated though on how the crossbow performs in cold weather. But I had no issues with shot placements all last year so I am not expecting any major variance this year.

It is presently -27 C outside as I type. Yet we have maybe only a foot of snow blanketing everything which is somewhat low for this time of year here. The ice roads are still unopened but should start for light vehicle at least. This means those isolated reserves up here (one with a population of 3,500) that are only float plane access to live a somewhat more normal lifestyle as trucks become useful for awhile. A few times when bow hunting I'd come across a native friend out rifle hunting and always they'd joke by saying such as "the tables have turned now white man, for I have the rifle". 😆 I'd then remind them as kids it was the natives who often played the cowboys and the whites who played the Indians! 😯

The bush is very thick around here and even a small twig getting caught in a pulley on a compound with often damage the pulley if fired. Maybe this is why I never see anyone out hunting with crossbow here...I dunno! I always chose short compounds just because they are easier to handle in such terrain. My recurve was a Canadian made Chekmate takedown. It was 29" draw 65 lb and the woodwork was beautiful to look upon. I ruined my instincts for bare bow hunting as I used sights on my Jennings Buckmaster compound and found that I could only be a master of one bow at a time.

One of my friends here has made custom paddles for canoeing and we'd often discuss making our own bows from scratch. He is now 71 and I am no longer shooting bows so we definitely procrastinated on that one. Here is a sight though for you wood workers to ponder on in this regard http://www.stickbow.com/features/index.cfm?feature=bowbuilding . Wood was never my forte anyways in building! This would be a great winter project for those who are good with wood though! 😯

In an SHTF situation you can use the bolt / arrows as sharpies to stab for close combat when you can't reload or aim or the threat is approaching rapidly. My concern is that the bow or crossbow itself makes your two hand busy or takes too much efforts to carry. You can shoulder a rifle, you can also shoulder a bow/crossbow. But you also have to carry the bolt/arrows that take some space and loads.

If its for hunting rabbits or squirrels I would prefer a roundball pellet gun. More ammo to carry. While to replace the space that previously taken by the bolt/arrows, my choice is a machete or a kukri.

Haven't touch a bow for more than 15 years though.

I always look back at the cost that I incurred in archery and know that it was an expensive hobby. yet when you do something consistently for years, I guess that I somehow accepted the costs as an entertainment expense as I don't throw money away at too many other things any how. (well maybe bikes too) 😆 I mention this as I can't see archery being a replenishable resource as arrows have to be specifically cut the your draw length and the stiffness of the shaft has to be equivalent to the poundage and length of shaft. In other words, just cause you find some arrows doesn't mean your going to make use of them.....

Thus in answer to the title of the thread...no, I don't see archery as a priority in s SHTF situation, but can be a secondary backup option in certain situations. And as I mentioned above, I think the pellet rifle would become a primary weapon for daily small game hunting, especially as it too has the quiet aspect covered. And I don't mean one of these cheap 500 FPS pieces of crap either. I mean a rifle that requires an FAC to purchase and shoots the expensive pellets at 1200 FPS.

Some Interesting Stats:
A .22 Cal Long Rifle 40 Grain Hollow Point has a velocity of 1065 FPS. ($0.05 per bullet)
A pellet rifle shoots the cheap .177 Cal 7.4 Grain Hollow Point pellet at 1000 FPS. (under $0.02 per pellet)

I used to consistently shoot 6 arrows a day for many years to stay in shooting form and I found it a decent way to relax and perform a sort of daily ritual as many do in other things. I then bought arrow straighteners and fletching jigs and created another time consuming hobby to repair as many shafts as I could. This too became a ritual but yet I could practice daily in my back yard in the middle of Calgary!

When I moved back to the country, I was to busy and soon broke this ritual as work demanded it. The bow sat and the skills faded somewhat as archery is a demanding sport in maintaining form to be consistent. And when I go to get back into it seriously years later, I soon discover circulation in my finger tips is a primary issue. If you like these new releases, your fine. Seems I didn't seem to want to master them!

And now I just rediscovered the pellet rifle after many years of forgetting about their existence. From just wanting to kill a few varmints that were invading my attic to a few others killing some nice trees, I found something that somewhat revives this ritual that I once had and plinking is a pleasant task that I can do daily now. I only take a few shots a day but know that it perfects my shooting form even though it is just a pellet rifle. All the actions I would do with any rifle involve the aiming, steadying, breathing and squeezing just as this air rifle does and thus I suggest many try this routine before condemning this suggestion as being a silly one. Then see if you agree with creating such routines into your daily life too! I now see it as equivalent to the .22 Cal rifle as your first weapon to own or maybe even above as it's silence allows much more purpose overall.

I always look back at the cost that I incurred in archery and know that it was an expensive hobby.

Which is all relative to the individual person. I showed how cheap it can be done and how cheap I did it successfully.

Thus in answer to the title of the thread...no, I don't see archery as a priority in s SHTF situation, but can be a secondary backup option in certain situations. .

That's probably good as you got the title wrong too. Does it have a place in a shtf situation versus archery as a priority in a shtf situation. Nowhere near the same thing. I argued that if one has the time to practice, are able to make a small investment and like me think it will be useful for hunting in a shtf situation then it does have a place. Yes I did advice practicing hunting now and not learn it post shtf. So in my conclusion it does.

I was curious if other people felt the same or disagreed on the defensive points etc.

Knuckle don't hijack the thread with more of your air rifle ramblings or more rambling posts and pictures from your backyard. Contribute if you have some comments relating to what I wanted to talk about. Don't just be a prolific poster commenting on every topic repeatedly here on this forum. Feel free to start more topics to invite conversations yourself if you have more to share with us.

I only take a few shots a day but know that it perfects my shooting form even though it is just a pellet rifle. All the actions I would do with any rifle involve the aiming, steadying, breathing and squeezing just as this air rifle does and thus I suggest many try this routine before condemning this suggestion as being a silly one.

Not wanting to continue discussing your off the topic comments I have to comment on that comment. As a Firearms instructors on several weapons systems including rifles I would strongly advice this practice. No amount of dry practice and plinking with an air rifle can replace real practice on a shooting range. Practice dry shooting techniques with a snap cap (that what Long Range shooters or as you may call them Snipers do). Do NOT rely on an air rifle to replace real firearms practice. You cannot train on one rifle and then use another in a real hunt or shtf situation.

And I am not saying that plinking or indeed hunting with a 1200FPS air rifle is to be dismissed or is not relevant. You just cant practice on an air rifle and expect the same results hunting with a 30-06 or 270 hunting firearm not to mention using an AR. Practice with the tool you will be using.

Knowing you Knuckle you will have lots to say so why don't you open a topic about it and lets keep this topic to what the headline says. If I search the forum looking for air rifle information I would not guess that Knuckle would be talking about air rifles and posting reply's about air rifle in a topic about about archery.

Sorry man. And no intent as to hijack the thread.

You asked a question if archery has a place? I know that many would like to consider it does as they are unaware of the real costs involved in such a venture. Many presume that they just have to buy a bow and a dozen arrows and they are all set. But rookies tend to buy that which other "experts" suggest and soon discover that their present selections don't suit them properly as their own knowledge grows. Thus they now buy a 2nd bow, sights, berger buttons, peeps, string silencers, fletching jigs, vanes and other arrow components, arrow straighteners, bow vises, archery butts, and on and on.

Then the real expenses of start when you finally decide you are now going to hunt with it. So now you must buy the camo gear, super expensive broadheads, masking scents, tree stands, bush bow cases, hunting sights, hunting blind gear, no scent rain suits, bait gear, trail cams, tracking gear and more... yup, it turns out to be far more expensive then most might think when first staring out as many sports are.

But don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the company of bow & primitive weapons hunters far better than that of rifle hunters when guiding as most who traveled a thousand miles to hunt with such weapons were better hunters and not just weekend warriors. The Rifle hunters i guided usually drank and partied while this was more a vacation while primitive hunters often fished, prepared and practiced when not sitting on their baits. They quickly earned my respect and this professionalism led me to change camps to one strictly set up for bow hunters and other class primitive weapons.

I presume most folks here have a limited quantity of money to spend on weaponry. This therefore is the determining factor when purchasing for a SHTF scenario. On this premiss (not considering those who have already have invested such as a hobby anyways), would you suggest to all viewers that archery is a realistic alternative versus some other options?

And my point in shooting even a pellet rifle was that you will keep some senses sharper by such practice for those those not going to a gun range very often otherwise. An obvious way to prove this theory is just to consider how long it presently takes you before squeezing off a shot on the range. Consider all the time spent in preparation for each shot. Are animals going to stand there and wait patiently for you to get prepared during a hunt? So this area is where this ritual habit needs perfection to respond much quicker so one doesn't lose the shot.

There is irony in that I am now suggesting others to not invest in that which I have been defending for many years, especially to my wife. 😕 But it seems easier now to reflect honestly as time has eroded some of the addiction involved in this expensive habit. And your right again that I am taking this off topic somewhat when I mention of comparing archery to other weapons, and should maybe a separate thread on this aspect instead. I just figured cost to be a major consideration to honestly answering this threads overall question from a prepper's standpoint. ❓

Well, many things got a place in SHTF situation.

The problem is: Are there any other options than the bow/crossbows?
Until other options are still available, likely people will prefer other options.

Don't get me wrong, I respect people with archery skills. And it's very good skills.

The other problems is where do you live?
Near forest or deer hunting grounds that still relevant. Urban environment not likely practical.

Then there's an issue of durability.
Have you ever break your bow/crossbow?
An empty rifle can be used as club, fix a bayonet and you get a spear.
The practicality man.

Furthermore is what you got against you in an SHTF situation?
Squirrels? Rabbits? Deers?
Try upgrade to wolves or something that fights back.
One step further is if you have to deal with people or other intelligent opponent even worse if the threats were multiple in numbers or held a weaponary advantage. Once you missed the shot, they will overrun you.
Long range is important, however in reality you need to consider how much continuous shots you can have because it's a hard one to hit even a still target in real SHTF situation.
Thats why I always promote ready with the back up (machete/kukri/knife,etc)

Interesting question...

Firstly: It's a wild guess, as it never really happened (yet) - SHTF that is 😉

Secondly: If it nonetheless happen and you end up in posession of a set of bow/crossbow and arrows/bolts - it likely will [have place]. Unless You die, of course - then it will be eliminated 😉

Thirdly: pros and cons are important theoretical discussion points in the end, I imagine.

Pros for archery in general:
1. When SHTF properly and civilisation does collapse - how soon do you imagine and how easily will explosives and compound cartridge ammunition be produced? Propellent and, especially, primer - have relatively short lifespan: most of ammo will fall out of date before its even used I guess;
2. Repairing rifles/guns and making new ones - especially barrells will wear; how easily will new ones be procured/manufactured? As above - unlikely; Making new bows/crossbows and/or repairing parts - is much more likely;
3. Can you hunt big game with most commonly available firearms? No. Unless You have a relatively-large caliber, high-velocity rounds - your can't; taking down a moose/deer/buffalo/cow/pissed off bear with a handgun? Not likely... Shotgun? Nope. Need a rifle. (*Speaking practically - a dead-simple WWI, 7.92mm would be a very practical choice (for one, those pieces have survived use and horrible abuse during often two world wars and 20 tumultous years in between and now, over a century later are still operational; they are also dead simple and use one of the most common cartridges in the world - and can take out big targets.) Or a cheap, simple, good-old bow/crossbow with proper draw values;
4. Big, big, BIG factor: silence. SILENCE. All that speak of 'staying off the grid and blow the radar', just to start firing a gun and letting everything and everyone within a range of dozens of miles know, that you are there? Sounds super-dummy to me...; Hunting game or even eliminating unwanted visitors can usually be done do a lot better effect in a silent and clandestine way.
*I know that gun is almost essential in many scenarios of group assault, but again - if you didn't attract attention in the first play, chances are lesser of it happening; all you might need to do is to silently dispose of a scout. Again: SILENTLY. Or even if there's a bigger group - it is still a reasonable plan to at least try picking them out quietly one-by-one rather than starting gun-fight that will be heard on the other side of the Rockies...
5. 'Surprise' factor - poisons, that is. Arrows/bolts can be laced with a variety of different delicacies, starting from classic, super-strong neurotoxins, through common and easily-available 'unpleasant suprises', all the way down to nasty, infectious diseases/biogenic poisons - that greatly increase the usefullness;
6. To a limited degree, crossbows can be used for hunting in shallow water; guns - much less so (physics, really);

To sum it up - I'd always go for a good crossbow over even the fanciest bow (for reasons so obvious that there's no point to mention them all), and yes - I'd first buy a good crossbow, and firearms would come second; to answer your question: yes - I think archery has a very fine niche to fill, and as the years will pass from 'year zero', this niche will only keep growing larger for a looong time.

As far as alternatives, the Benjamin air bow is coming online in retail right now. Interesting concept!

Air guns are still quite loud, near silence will always be the strong point of archery. The downside is of course range and proficiency.
Crossbows remove much of the skillset traditionally required to be a good archer. They're deadly accurate out to 40 yards at least.
A quality recurve (Excalibur) needs no maintenance that you can't do at home and will last many years. The super high velocity ones are pretty highly stressed but lesser speeds (300fps vs 400) are the same bow with less stress = much less chance of malfunction. A couple of spare strings and you're good for thousands of shots.

If it comes right down to it how hard would it be to make a crossbow? If they made them 2000 years ago think how easy with modern materials like leaf springs and wire rope.

Plus 1 on the Excal crossbow. My Wolverine is closing in on 30 yrs old. Loonie sized groups at 30yrds if you want to risk a robin hood.

Plus 2 on the Excalibur crossbow. Mine has lasted 6 years now. Nothing has broken apart from bolts but for pocket money I do have a spare string on hand. Changed the scope last year and I am now accurate up till 60 yards with illuminated scope. Easy for beginners to master too :).

waving at Jensen

Silence. One can debate rifle cartridges, guns etc till cows come home but silence is going unnoticed. Just a little thunk 😯