Hello,

As much as I think this is a great idea, im wondering if 20 people is too high a number. Assuming each member has a spouse and maybe a kid or two, lets use a lowball number of each member represents 2.5 people. That is 50 people, plus any friends/relatives/acquaintances that have been told and decide tag along/show up whether wanted or not.

I can only imagine how much food would need to be grown/stored to feed 50 people who are outside and physically working day in day out, gone are the 8 hour days sitting at a desk not burning calories. The sanitary/sewage requirements would be huge, how long would it take 50 people to fill an outhouse pit? Water better be in real close proximity. Can you imagine the wood requirements for 20 houses/cabins to cook and heat in the dead of winter?

I am of the opinion that a smaller group would be more likely to succeed. When disagreements occur (and they will) it would be much easier convincing/negotiating with 5 people let alone 18.

I am a huge supporter of this kind of idea as I cannot afford to purchase something on my own, I also realize that I alone (with fam) cannot do everything that would need to be done, a community is absolutely imperative, people get sick, people get injured.

Without really thinking hard about this I would think that the magic number would be 10 founding members max, at least to start for a total population of 25. Once the vital infrastructure had been created additional members could be added if required/wanted.

Maybe ive watched too much T.V. but I wonder things like does there need to be a leader of some sort? If a serious disagreement were to occur how could it be difused? People have very different ideas, if a few people had good ideas of doing things in different ways how would it be decided which way would be chosen, would it be put to a vote? I wonder things like if there were a "leader" chosen, this gives people a feeling of superiority, a feeling of power, as history has shown this can lead to problems. When I think of these things I imagine living in such a place long term, not for a week long camping trip where if things get ugly we can all go home in a few days.

I can agree with the idea that there would be alot of turnover once people see how much work is required so set this up. Sounds fun and exciting....but I bet it isnt 😉

I believe this idea can work, and in response to Spinkx79, also believe there needs to be an executive board.
The board would be a minimum of 5 members. I would suggest the first executive be appointed, but then elected at set intervals.
I think you would have to run it somewhat like a trailer park. You would offer lots in the park up for a price, and everyone would have to sign a code of conduct agreement, as well as be accepted by the existing board and membership before being allowed to take their spot. Transfer of spots would be allowed, provided the new entrants went through the same process (signed agreement, acceptance by the membership).
There would of course be yearly fees. The group would then have primary and secondary objectives for which those fees would be directed toward.
There may also (at the discretion of the membership) be a given number of lots available where the monetary fee would be waived in lieu of labor.
I would certainly be interested in this kind of group setting.

http://www.recreationland.net/recreation_land_for_sale/ontario/Hunting_Land_and_Large_Acreage_For_Sale/File_10_-____57.52_acre_haven_in_Bristol_Township/index.html

i can only assume you are looking at something like this.

I do recommend you look at the property first. Also get the elevation maps, check the area for underground rivers etc..
You can hire a city water engineer for pretty good price

Just remember that that location is within the boundary of the City of Timmins. In fact many such locations are within highly structured municipalities. As such you are subject to all city bylaws and provincial and city building codes. As go up the buildings so do the taxes. To save a lot of hassle and a whole lot of cash (taxes) why not look for property in an organized township. There are quite a few north of North Bay. Unorganized townships have land tax based on 1942 value which is very hard to beat.

and if shtf you are gonna worry about zoning?...no offence, but that is the last thing that they will be worrying about I am sure of that. As well, if you are worried about unsuitable land...the idea of raised gardens work great and are easy to build and produce alot more product than a conventional garden....something to look into...

I just made an assumption that there would be improvements to the land before any SHTF. I don't know if there is a point in buying a hunk of land just to sit on it and do nothing. If thats all you want to do, you might as well not buy anything and just wait. If the S ever does HTF, you can go into the woods and do whatever you want. I doubt there will be any recourse from the local officials if you squat on what was previously considered private property. But if i invest. I will want to build something and make some improvements to the area to maintain in the event of having to go there. Dependant on what is there and the geography, some sort of comfortable living space and other means of self sustaining. And to do anything over 100sq. ft., I will need a permit. And to get that there could be site plan approvals, drawings from someone who has a BCIN, could be a conservation authority has jurisdiction, Fire Prev. Dept., blah blah blah...and thats just a building for living in. You made a great recommendation about raised gardens, energy sources, etc. You can always take a chance to build illegally..but there are all kinds of storey's every year about people who do that....and to varying degrees they pay for it in the end....

There are a number of variables that need to be considered. To me, access, availability of water, road access, timer/trees, energy sources, security, etc.
Is there a Real Estate guy/gal or someone who may be in the know here?

One thought that sits in my mind..mainly for us southern ontario folk....getting up north. Ever travel the 400 on a long weekend? I bet if SHTF, that road will be gridlock to Sudbury! 🙂 (I embelish it..but you get the point) Going home to Blind River is tough enough. We are talking even farther north. What if it is a solar flare? No cars...how do you get there? If it's something else...will that 400 be open to head north? Thats a lot of travel, and only one route. If that route is shut off, its all over. Its over before it even started. How far north do you go? Parry Sound? Sudbury? Timmins? Moosonee? 🙂 Highway access? Road access to the plot? Ever try pouring concrete by the bag? It sucks...I would hope for at least road access to get a concrete truck in to pour a foundation or something....I am rambling but just more thoughts on this. I like the idea! 🙂

Taliesin96, I want to know what do you want? I ask this because I looked at property with my best friend for a hunt camp. We drove for three hours to get there, talked alot in the car. We had many casual conversations prior to the drive kinda throwing the idea out getting our hunt party to all go in and slowly work on our camp.

Heres what I learned. His vision or his inital approache to the land and how to begin was very different than mine. He wanted to put up canvas tents and go from there. I wanted to buy a crap bus, rip out the seats and go from there. He wanted to start with 1k a person. I wanted 5K per person....

We agreed to disagree.

My suggestion. Decide what u want. Stay firm, othesr like u will come, others will not.

When you see or hear of communes or tribes working together (group of people) it is mostly because they were born into it. They learn to obey the "leader" no question ask from the day they are born.If you just want to form a group of in reality strangers it would be 50 people 50 different ideas.The only way it would work if you get together and week later big disaster happens so you will be forced by the disaster to stick together. Trust me I was raised in commune that was put together.
Henry

Most communities started with a trading post/General store. Somebody else decided it would be a good place for a hotel/saloon(bar). Well if you have a Trading post then you might need a stable, then a granary, a few houses that these people needed to live in. A traveling tailor comes by, to do work for the trading post as well as a leather worker and a furrier. Word goes out and a wheelwright and a cooper comes along and decides to set up a shop here. As a community grows, so do the necessities of the different trades. It is when a school and library is set up, is when you know that you have a sustainable community.

I'm turning a little skeptical about posting here however I'd like to make a few comments since you asked for input taliesin.

I've gone to see a couple of sites already and like mentioned you really need to go and scout out the property yourself. I've also found that the write-ups are really accurate and you can trust them. A couple of things to watch are whether the property has been logged in the recent past. The most important is if you are buying the mineral and forest rights to the property. Having a diamond drill crew move into your propety and set up is just about as dismal as a logging firm.

It's already been mentioned that this particular piece of land is within the limits of Timmins and their bilaws apply to any structures or waste disposal created. Most bilaws are crippling, even to the point of land use and the amount of people that can reside on a property. You'd be far better advised to stick to land that is in an "undeveloped" township area and you're free to do your own thing within the limits of the MNR.

Beautiful area over there and lots of resources. The harsh and short growing year is a challenge but there are lots of options that can circumvent that and still be able to produce viable crops. Having any type of livestock is also challenging with weather and predators but also manageable. One thing for sure - it's God's country up that way and a breath of fresh air compared to some other parts of the province but a long hike for some.

Pros: The price is right.
Cons: It is 13km from Timmins city centre and very close to the main highyway.

To all, if you see a property that close to a big town then keep looking. That is way too close to an urban area. You want to be an hour by car or more from any big towns like Timmins. I also recommend being a full gas tank or so away from major cities like Ottawa or Toronto. Also keep in mind that many northern properties do not have proper water on them and little good soil so always keep this in mind when looking. The good news is there are properties out there with both but it may take a bit more looking. Try and find something that is in an "unincorporated" or "unorganized" township if you really want a good property to bug out to. Extremely low property taxes and no local building codes so you can pretty much construct your cabin or whatever you want in total secrecy with zero meddling by local or other "officials". Property prices in unincorporated areas most often cost less too and are usually found in the more remote parts of the province which is ideal for a proper retreat. No power run to the property is ideal. People follow power lines and they are a dead giveaway so plan to be off grid which is what you should be doing anyways no matter where you live.

If you are building a cabin or building of any kind then buy any materials from a supplier far away from your property and recycle all your construction waste as dropping it off at the local dump will likely raise suspicions that you might be building something. Word travels fast in small towns and before you know it everyone knows about your survival cabin so keep quiet about what you are doing. And for gods sake do not buy a property with or build anything with a structure visible from the road. You would be just asking for all kinds of trouble. The goal is to have a property that appears to be just a large empty acreage from any road. Even the road in on your property should be allowed to grow in to make it look like nothing is on it. Also, avoid properties with railway tracks, maintained skidoo trails or power lines running through them. They are thoroughfares for trespassers of all kinds. Even major rivers can and will bring people to your property.

And last but not least, if you don't have a 4x4 then don't even bother getting a piece of raw land. Your car will get destroyed and most likely stuck badly in mud or snow or both which can ruin a nice visit to your land pretty quickly.