..."God forbid the day we have to live under "nothing to hid, nothing to fear."

Please explain.

... But electing not to assist, and keeping one's own privacy is a right. Your an innocent citizen and choosing not to give the police anything they ask for is not an admission of any guilt

Yes. In-life you always have the option to only care about yourself and ignore the welfare of everyone else. Your life, your property, your rights.

There is a victim to every crime. They have rights to safety and security and if these rights are violated, it doesn't affect your right not to care. I cannot help but wonder about the humanity of the Society that I live in...

On one side you have a police officer who risks his life and his family's welfare to come to the aid of someone in need and the witness to a brutal assault to a child who chooses to say nothing (as is their right). Where is their moral compass pointing...?

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

..."God forbid the day we have to live under "nothing to hid, nothing to fear."

Please explain.

... But electing not to assist, and keeping one's own privacy is a right. Your an innocent citizen and choosing not to give the police anything they ask for is not an admission of any guilt

Yes. In-life you always have the option to only care about yourself and ignore the welfare of everyone else. Your life, your property, your rights.

There is a victim to every crime. They have rights to safety and security and if these rights are violated, it doesn't affect your right not to care. I cannot help but wonder about the humanity of the Society that I live in...

On one side you have a police officer who risks his life and his family's welfare to come to the aid of someone in need and the witness to a brutal assault to a child who chooses to say nothing (as is their right). Where is their moral compass pointing...?

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

I'm sure if you were LE as you state you were, you received training in the legislation and regulations governing your profession including the Charter. Living under the ideology "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" could be an argument to leverage a person's right to privacy. Its a scary and slippery slope. Not simply because we would be relinquishing rights to the Crown. But because we would then sanction the Crown to intrude and govern virtually every part of our existence. This isn't democracy.

As for your second statement that protecting one's own privacy and rights is at the expense of others. I think your creating a false dichotomy, though your intentions may be noble. I'm not doubting that at all. But in my opinion, and the law of the land sides with me, you can't profess to be a defender of someone if you do this at the expense of someone else. The pursuit of justice doesn't trump the rights of another citizen. The intentions may be noble..ie solving a crime. We can see examples historically and in other countries where the Crown (or state) are given free hand and not subject to the rights of the individual. Its open for abuse, and undermines the balance where the citizens are in control of a democracy.

Most reasonable people are happy to assist and help where they can. I don't share the pessimistic view that people would not help in most circumstances. Being cajoled or guilt tripped or bribed/tempted into giving up privacy isn't illegal either. LE have a vast array of tecniques at their disposal. But the minute we take away the individual rights of a citizen, we undermine the very democracy we all wish to live in.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. It's mainly a matter of perspective. I'm not advocating the loss of people's rights. What I was emphasising was because someone has the right not to give police pertinent information doesn't mean that they shouldn't. I believe in Edmund Burke's statement.

As a member of society we should behave in a way which is good for all and which is helpful in promoting the welfare of society. Society calls upon the individual to follow certain norms. These are obligations or duties.

Rights and duties are related to each other. They are the two sides of the same coin. The rights of one are the duties of the other and vice versa. In the absence of duties rights become insignificant and duties are fruitless in the absence of rights. If we have rights, we have duties to perform as well.

There is much talk about individual rights, but little about duties. I believe that our duties are both legal and moral. The legal duties are obvious, as set down by law.. How about the moral ones?

Moral duties are those obligations which we should observe but aren't legally bound to observe them. Few would disagree that these include: looking after one's family, helping the poor and those injured or in need, contributing by working to earn money by fair means and serving our village, province and nation. I believe that the individual's moral obligation in the maintenance of a lawful society includes reporting crimes and criminal observations to police.

If we want clean streets, we don't litter. If we want safe streets, we do our part to keep them safe. People get the government and the crime rate they deserve.

It's interesting that some people only start to understand when they're the victim and witnesses to the crime exercise their right to say nothing. I don't want to get involved. One day, the roles may be reversed (one can only hope)...

Clarence,

...
Code words, secret rendezvous locations …it quacks like a duck, it likely a duck... Acting like you've got something to hide, usually means you do and that can certainly bring attention to you.

Wayne:
Sounds like we have worked with some of the same folks! In fact, I had some over to the house recently. Agree with your walking the street, bank codes etc. And yes, bad guys use the things I mentioned and it certainly can draw unwanted attention. Heck, as many of them served in the army etc, they likely picked up the tactics while serving!

I certainly do not wish to disparage the police and other folks we appear to have worked with, but there are numerous and well documented cases of corruption etc. I was once told a story that while they were traveling back home after a day at work and helping keep the nation secure, the person was still wired. When he was pulled over for doing the speed limit, he turned the device back on. The good and trusted officer who should the SHTF one day ever occur and who would have extensive power and cause any number of people great grief, proceeded to try and shake the nice I.O down for a bribe. This guy permitted the fine and upstanding police officer to prattle on and then flashed his ID!. Copy of the tape was turned over to the duty sergeant the next morning and that was the end of that. I was personally shook down by a fat QPP officer for doing 80 going uphill in my jeep. IF, after leaving the light, I was maybe doing 40 MPH, that would have been about it. I once pushed the jeep to 85 on a flat stretch before I gave up out of fear the thing would shake apart. I didn’t tell him to F off because I knew I would have had my white Anglo Saxon head slammed over the hood and likely arrested for assault, obstruction of justice, resisting arrest or whatever fake charge the fat SOB would have conjured up. No cell cams or go pros in these days and the witness I was with and couldn’t figure out why we were getting pulled over would not have been believed either! NOT, say all police are like this, but there sure as hell are some and its just matter of whether you ever need to avoid their thug tactics.

There can be now and in the future, certain circumstances that one would wish to go dark. We have discussed in open form on this group, the possibility of stealing a vehicle if dire circumstances were deemed necessary. Trapping or use of snares is unless illegal unless you have a permit, why anyone would need a thermal or night scope on a rifle when discharge of a firearm 30 minutes before or after sunset would be legally permitted beats me. Surely to heaven, no one would ever consider poping an intruder meaning harm to our family, why that’s illegal. Heck, if it were to occur and it happened to be the cousin of the fat QPP officer above, I am sure one would get a fair treatment on the way to the sally port!. Storing fuel underground, while a great idea is again, not legal unless permits are in place. So in short, people may wish to or need to watch what they say. There are folks and I mean private citizens with cell scanners who may be interested in your convo on the cell (and yes today’s phones, like old analogue phones can be picked up) or on a cordless phone, baby monitor, that cam you have on the porch while you chat in private with your fellow preppers, then we have hackers from across the street or down the road that may be on peoples wifi networks or who can read what’s on your computer screen ( tempest technology). So comsec and opsec is or can be vital to ones health and freedoms.

Lets say it’s a pre, during or post SHTF situation and you are in a group of good and honest people, but you need to let your friend know that they should quickly meet. Going and huddling in a corner may draw attention, so a little prearranged code would be wise to have! / not talking shipments of cocaine here but good to know above average tradecraft for good honest people to stay safe.

When and God forbid there was a shtf event, is there any chance that a government in crisis or just a plain over zealous police rookie, gung ho or totally corrupt SOB type as mentioned above, ever decide to pull up a file and say, hey there’s this guy bob who I really don’t like, he looked at my wife last year and I see here, he mentioned thermal scopes! Maybe we should go pay him a visit! My cousin Floyd says he puchased a pile of traps as well. Remember, people do funny things when in power and there is no recourse to courts. War measures act is a pretty serious little tool and history has told us time and time again that power can be intoxicating. Possible, you decide. I have my opinions and they are based on what I have seen and know from history etc. Did the average citizen in a democratic and very culturally advanced 1927 Germany ever envision a Nazi party holding power with less then 40% of vote, banning and seizing firearms and doing snatch and grabs in the middle of the night, less then five years later? Nope but it happened didn’t it!!! Where were all the good police, military soldiers, officers, judges…? Oh they were there alright, but silent from fear, from needing to feed and protect their families, shot or in a camp!. Of course there was resistance and many helped. As part of a group who was singled out, I know of the threats and and some of the assistance and methods used to help. BUT. For over ten years, evil reigned supreme, LEGAL and gov sanctioned evil. Not some coke dealer but government authorised and executed evil!

One just need look at the childish hysteria going on about assault weapons, pistol grips.... I can easily see the day that many gun types are deemed to be illegal. Your 308 with heavy barrel, nice long range capable thermal scope and tactical turrets is not needed for deer hunting in the bush and 50 foot shot. Sorry sir, that gun looks like it could be used for other purposes and why did you camouflage it up when you are obliged by law to wear hunter orange vest and hat? snatched! Whats with the gillie suit? Do you wear your hunter orange over it? Shotgun with pistol grip, nope! Folding stock? Good lord sir, only bank robbers use those, snatched! Resist or give lip and your heads slammed onto a hood! New gun laws proposed hand over classifications to rcmp. Some great people but also many who are very political. Chiefs of police in most urban centres are very liberal and are appointed. Who do you think they will support when the chips are down and they have full and I mean full authority? Even if they are nice and honest folk, the next Hitler… will replace the nice old chief of police and replace with the slob jackboot who gave me a ticket for doing 80 when I was maybe doing 40 or who tried to shake down the wrong person to mess with in the middle of the night.

Democracy and freedoms are precious and fragile things. You, me and others have and continue to try and keep our fellow man and government infrastructure or systems safe and secure but history clearly provides many examples on how fast things can change. No conspiracy and tin foil hat people situation here, just history.

I trust very, very few people and while I love and help many in the gov, I do not trust any government to always take the side of the good citizen. By design or out of necessity, the term I am familiar with and you may be as well is “you err on the side of the crown”. That may not always mean you and me Wayne, that’s the crown. Who is wearing the crown or acting on its behalf when or after a shtf scenario occurs, may turn a great many law abiding citizens into criminals and at that point, one best be able to function as one because there will be no court system for you to petition too. You or even I may think we can say a few words and be fine, but as we are both honest individuals, we could be viewed as a threat!

You want to hang out in a military prison for five years while they get around to hearing your story and the judge and jury is comprised of little Hitler’s, Himmler’s, Goelbels,Hesses, etc , your welcome to it, not me. Again, to be clear for all reading this, no one is suggesting the breaking of the law or disrespecting a good police officer in the course of his or hers lawful duties. Just understand that not every police officer, soldier, judge and bureaucrat is honest and has your best interests at heart. And one fine day, you, I and others like us may need to use our experience to help keep us and others. Codes, safe houses etc do not always mean drug dealers or terrorists. They can mean freedom from thugs.

Hi Clarence,

I can't say I've ever met a crooked Cop. Well at least if he was crooked, it never came to my attention. I'm not saying that there isn't any, but none that I'm aware of. Police Officers are human. As such, they have all the failings that human being have. I believe that the vast majority are trustworthy, believe in what they're doing and sincerely want to do what's right.

I've been in a lot of dangerous situations and have never worried about my six. My brother has had it covered. I've seized hundreds of thousands of dollars of drugs and drug money and never worried if any of it would go astray. We had a job to do, were honorable and made the effort. That's not to say that I was always pleased with the result in the Courts, but I continued to play the game. Once it hit the Courts the disposition was out of my hands. Next....

I know what it's like to be on a watch list. As a police tactical officer, my training has been pretty specialized. It doesn't bother me to spend an extra 30 mins at the airport because I know that there will be questions to answer. It's reasonable to keep tabs on people who can make an explosive with what's in your kitchen. I get it. So when people got 'carded,' I knew that there's a reason for it. The process isn't founded on malice, any more than the questions I have to answer in Canadian Immigration.

Why am I being questioned and not those guys? It has nothing to do with MY rights and everything to do with the rights of OTHERS to be safe and secure. With my training, I have a duty. Like I said earlier rights and duty go hand-in-hand.

As far as firearms are concerned, I don't break the law. Everything I have is legal, stored properly and always available for inspection. The Boys can drop by any time and I'll put on the coffee... 🙂

The government knows my capabilities; they paid to train me. If I haven't proved myself as one of the good guys by now, I don't know what else I can do. Have a great day and thanks for the PM.

...Your 308 with heavy barrel, nice long range capable thermal scope and tactical turrets is not needed for deer hunting in the bush and 50 foot shot. Sorry sir, that gun looks like it could be used for other purposes and why did you camouflage it up when you are obliged by law to wear hunter orange vest and hat? snatched! Whats with the gillie suit? ...

I like to shoot targets at 1000 yards. Why else would I need a 30 power scope? I don't wear hunter orange (I don't hunt). The Gillie suit? Other than I like the color, I use it to hide from my wife. She's forever at me to cut the grass; I like it long. See ya, Oh I guess you wont, I'm wearing a Gillie suit... LOL

BTW, I have the right not to answer any of these questions I will because I've nothing to hide (other than myself)... Pardon the sniper humor. 🙂

Speaking of the ultimate sniper rifle... May I introduce the M1400 EMR. 338 Lapua Mag. 100% hit rate at 1400 yards $17,000 U.S. and $9.00 U.S. a round ($1800 for 200 rounds). I'm in love...

https://youtu.be/UqRTS9SrkXc

Wayne,

I can't say I've ever met a crooked Cop.

Funniest thing I've read in a long long long long time.

...Your 308 with heavy barrel, nice long range capable ...

Speaking of the ultimate sniper rifle... May I introduce the M1400 EMR. 338 Lapua Mag. 100% hit rate at 1400 yards $17,000 U.S. and $9.00 U.S. a round ($1800 for 200 rounds). I'm in love...
... Pardon the sniper humor. 🙂

Speaking of the ultimate sniper rifle... May I introduce the M1400 EMR. 338 Lapua Mag. 100% hit rate at 1400 yards $17,000 U.S. and $9.00 U.S. a round ($1800 for 200 rounds). I'm in love...

https://youtu.be/UqRTS9SrkXc

Why do you temp people with these things! Remember, that’s the rifle. Put an appropriate scope on it and you can add anothef ten K. There goes the grandkids inheritance

Hi Clarence,

I can't say I've ever met a crooked Cop. Well at least if he was crooked, it never came to my attention. I'm not saying that there isn't any, but none that I'm aware of. Police Officers are human. As such, they have all the failings that human being have. I believe that the vast majority are trustworthy, believe in what they're doing and sincerely want to do what's right.

I've been in a lot of dangerous situations and have never worried about my six. My brother has had it covered. I've seized hundreds of thousands of dollars of drugs and drug money and never worried if any of it would go astray. We had a job to do, were honorable and made the effort. That's not to say that I was always pleased with the result in the Courts, but I continued to play the game. Once it hit the Courts the disposition was out of my hands. Next....

I know what it's like to be on a watch list. As a police tactical officer, my training has been pretty specialized. It doesn't bother me to spend an extra 30 mins at the airport because I know that there will be questions to answer. It's reasonable to keep tabs on people who can make an explosive with what's in your kitchen. I get it. So when people got 'carded,' I knew that there's a reason for it. The process isn't founded on malice, any more than the questions I have to answer in Canadian Immigration.

Why am I being questioned and not those guys? It has nothing to do with MY rights and everything to do with the rights of OTHERS to be safe and secure. With my training, I have a duty. Like I said earlier rights and duty go hand-in-hand.

As far as firearms are concerned, I don't break the law. Everything I have is legal, stored properly and always available for inspection. The Boys can drop by any time and I'll put on the coffee... 🙂

The government knows my capabilities; they paid to train me. If I haven't proved myself as one of the good guys by now, I don't know what else I can do. Have a great day and thanks for the PM.

Wayne, happy to hear you never met any tainted officers. My overall note on what history can teach us is something that we all need to remember and maybe prepare for. Just like we lay in food, seeds etc, we need to keep democracy’s and freedoms alive, safe and nurtured

Why do you temp people with these things! Remember, that’s the rifle. Put an appropriate scope on it and you can add anothef ten K. There goes the grandkids inheritance

It comes with more than an appropriate scope; the trackingpoint system. It works similar to an IR targeting tag that is sometimes used in tactical missile strikes. You paint the target as to where you want the bullet to hit by pushing a button. Secondly you move the crosshair to the area and when the position is right, the reticle lights-up and bang. The target can move at speeds up to 20 mph, it doesn't matter! Almost a 100% chance to hit the target where you want at distances up to 1400 yards. Design tolerance guarantee the hit within 2 inches at 1000 yards. Pretty impressive.

A novice can outshoot an expert sniper. You may have heard of Chris Kyle of "American Sniper" fame. His wife Taya had never fired a rifle in her life. Trackingpoint developed a difficult competition that put her against the four time world champion long-distance shooter. If the expert won, he could collect a $1,000,000 prize. The score was something like 38/100 for him and 100/100 for Taya. With this system, it's difficult for the shooter to miss. The system factors almost everything into the equation. The only thing it can't is wind.

It's interesting to note that I and many Snipers don't usually factor wind into their shooting solution for long range shots. Although the wind may be at 270 degrees true at the rifle, at the target it can be 90 degrees true. You just can't reliably predict, especially at ranges over 800 yards.

What ticks me off a bit is that with this weapon, hundreds of thousands of training rounds and experience doesn't count for anything. It places the ability of deadly accuracy into anyone's hands who can buy the system.

Wayne,

I can't say I've ever met a crooked Cop.

Funniest thing I've read in a long long long long time.

How many crooked Cops have you met? How did you know they 'were crooked?' I fail to see the humor...

Why do you temp people with these things! Remember, that’s the rifle. Put an appropriate scope on it and you can add anothef ten K. There goes the grandkids inheritance

What ticks me off a bit is that with this weapon, hundreds of thousands of training rounds and experience doesn't count for anything. It places the ability of deadly accuracy into anyone's hands who can buy the system.

i am certainly no sniper but do you not look at the wind movement at the target area? or is it useless endeavor given the wind patterns and gusts that occurs along the route?

to be sure, technolgy can give an edge to the amateur, but the basics are always a must have

i am certainly no sniper but do you not look at the wind movement at the target area? or is it useless endeavor given the wind patterns and gusts that occurs along the route?

to be sure, technolgy can give an edge to the amateur, but the basics are always a must have

You can only make allowances for those forces that you can predetermine with a degree of accuracy. Interestingly enough, wind isn't usually one of them.

As far as just hitting the target is concerned, today the basics are how to load and maintain safety and fire discipline. The marksmanship skill isn't necessary with the right equipment. It's only the folks like me that don't have the technology available to them that need to know how to shoot. 🙂

Becoming a sniper however is quite different. When I went on selection, the focus was only on how well you could shoot in a combat situation. Perhaps this contributed to my misconception of what skills were actually required.

During my sniper training, only about 30% of my time was on the range. The majority was spent on navigation, stalking, observation, concealment, hazard assessment, atmospheric assessment, range estimation, ballistic trajectory calculations, bullet choice and secondary risk (where will the bullet go after it takes out the target). There was much more involved than I expected.