Economic Collapse- Your View

You can see the anti-Iran sentiment play out in the propaganda machine daily (ummm .... sorry I mean the news). The US has used false flags too many times to further their own agenda to discount it as some tin foil hat stuff.
The Obama re-election machine will want things to look rosy till the election so I wouldn't bet on anything happening till after the election but I think that Taz on the right track. By the end of the year I think it would be good to be in control of your own money and cash is good. Cash on hand is better than cash in the bank.

I'm not saying that they're starting to squeeze us, but. I went to the bank today to see about a small loan (under $10,000.00). I own 2 homes, the second of which I bought four years ago. To buy that one, they gave me $120,000.00 on my signature (it's paid off now). In 2007 I bought a new truck, again, on just my signature and I have two payments left. My credit cards are kept up to date and I only have monthly bills (groceries, insurance and utilities) which are always up to date.
Today I couldn't get the loan unless I showed proof of my income for the last 3 years. I guess it's true, they want to hang on to the money they have. I was asked what I want the money for. It's none of their f*****n business. I didn't say that, I just said it was personal. Needless to say, even though the loans manager confirmed that I have an excellent credit rating, I didn't get my small loan. I guess it's on to plan B, as soon as I figure out what that is.

You can see the anti-Iran sentiment play out in the propaganda machine daily (ummm .... sorry I mean the news). The US has used false flags too many times to further their own agenda to discount it as some tin foil hat stuff.
The Obama re-election machine will want things to look rosy till the election so I wouldn't bet on anything happening till after the election but I think that Taz on the right track. By the end of the year I think it would be good to be in control of your own money and cash is good. Cash on hand is better than cash in the bank.

Agreed, but to a point. The EU system is already starting to crumble, that will bring down the global house of cards even faster.

Mokonotora :
That the economic collapse can be proven by any Grade Six graduate with a calulator. As long as they are not a Finance Minister...

Almost spit out my coffee from laughing...

Tazweiss, I am reading the same things you are... I am also worried that the next US "stimulas" package will be war...While we in Canada weathered the economic crisis of 2008 a "little" better then most, this pending collapse promises to take all of the global players down. Let's not even mention things like Greece and that it might opt to default...

Celente has said for a couple of years now that when the finances are unfixable, they always take us to war.

@ paintergirl Thank you, it's a skill I value and practice.

So the solutions are to let the bankers blow things up. Educate everyone you can. They cannot force everyone to do anything they want.

Silver, physical silver is a solution. Since it was originally pegged at a 15:1 ration to gold, it is a steal as it's currently about 48:1 If gold is 1700 silver should be about $113 an ounce. Also when the pegging was arbitrarily done it was done BEFORE silver became an industrial metal. It's used and consumed in photos computers ect. The modern thinking is about 8/9:1 Or 188 an ounce. Get physical.
The other metal which is a solution is lead. Common Calibres.

I have to agree about the war talk; the powers to be down south sure are hell bent on justifying for some one to take a shot at Iran...
Nukes; no nukes , the consequences of a full-out war with Iran would be nothing short of cataclysm for the world economy and the regular working person of the world....
It will not be the same as the Iraqi invasion, those guys will use all means at there disposal....if the Big dogs are going to conqure them they will go down fighting...
Think what will happen. If Iran retaliates against Saudi Arabia...And they will, Iran knows it cant win against the U.S.in a full out head on war, but they do know attack, Saudi and the other oil producing countrys that supply the western Allied forces and they have struck a huge blow at collapsing what's left of there[ our economies]..The shee-ite Muslims in Power in Iran don't give a dam about the back lash and retaliation for using all resources[ chemical,bio, nukes] they believe in an end of times and they believe they are in it now..Keep that in mind....The soonie,s call them Devil's.India's seik's call them crazy..so if there is a war , if Israil takes a shot at Iran check your B.O.B.and gett ready to bug out, bug in,or what ever your plan maybe..

March is looking like it will be a rough ride in both the global economic and war arena. The heads of the global banks seem to be stepping down rapidly lately as well...

Did anyone here about this case? If I understand this correctly, 2 citizens are suing the bank of Canada. This is a snippet from their press release:

"Canadian constitutional lawyer, Rocco Galati, on behalf of Canadians William Krehm, and Ann Emmett,
and COMER (Committee for Monetary and Economic Reform) on December 12th, 2011 filed an action in
Federal Court, to restore the use of the Bank of Canada to its original purpose, by exercising its public
statutory duty and responsibility. That purpose includes making interest free loans to
municipal/provincial/federal governments for “human capital” expenditures (education, health, other
social services) and /or infrastructure expenditures."

Both the press release and court file are available at this link: http://comer.org/

Since 2008 and after reading a number of articles on the Oil Drum about the economic consequences of high energy costs I have changed my views somewhat. It would appear that we will be on a decades long decline as we go into recession-recovery-recession cycles downward with oil supply dropping preventing any net positive recovery.

However, with the way things are unfolding in the EU and the state of the US debt, it is clear that the mountain of debt being accumulated in the West will never be paid back. For example, if you incured a huge debt you have two choices. Spend decades paying it off, unable to use money for other requirements, or you can go bankrupt and have the slate cleaned and you start over. Countries are no different. If countries like the US stop the deficits and attempt to pay off the debt, then it would take 30 to 40 years to pay off, assuming a growing economy. The interest payments on that debt squeeze out other program spending. I don't think that's what the US is planning to do.

I suspect they have essentually given up and deliberately heading to default and bankruptcy. This could be viewed as a way of redistributing wealth as the people who the money is owed to are the wealthy (the poor has no money to lend out). So the US is deliberately heading the economy into a forced collapse so they can wipe the slate clean for everyone who is in debt. Iceland has already started on that road. They have the highest debt forgiveness in all the Western world.

What the government doesn't know, as there is no way to know, is what the consequences of this are, or what will have to happen to get there. Greece is one such example. Rioting is wide spread. The big wild card in riot control is the cops. Soon as government cant pay the cops, or the cops see family members in the crowd, government will lose them as a weapon to curtail rioting. Worse case is cops and military personnel "defect" and join the rioters (this happened in Lybia and currently happening in Syria), or go home to protect family from rioters.

There is no way of knowing when this will crash, they don't either. Too many variables and too many incompetent people running the show. So that means there isn't much one can do to take advantage of the situation. However, some things are predictable. Those with the most debt will be hurt the most because they will be at the beginning of the crash. 2008 is a glimps of that. But imagine the first million highly indebted people losing their homes out on the street (and squatting in vacant homes). Those with moderated manageble debt will fair the best as when the banks they owe the money to collapses they will be debt free.

"For example, if you incured a huge debt you have two choices..."

I think theres one other choice JRwakfield, and thats too start a massive war, which i beleive is well under way up to this point.
The planet is restless, its like having too many cooks in the kitchen, someones gonna get wacked.
The middle east is getting wise to the USA petrodollar scheme, and they want something more stable than the us dollar at this point.

As for debt and debt repayment during a shtf scenario it brings up many interesting questions.
If the dollar goes belly up how do you continue to pay the bank? If the bank goes belly up do you still own your house?
If the shit really hits the fan will any of this matter? You might actually be better off having incurred tons of debt to this point as repayment will be impossible
if theres no dollar or no bank to take it to.
What if land titles records get destroyed, or all of your electronic banking info is deleted, if things ever got to this extreme it would be an unbeleivable mess.
Best advice Be Prepared cause piss poor planning and preperation equals piss poor performance.

Hi JRWakefield.
I have something to add to your post.
If you declare bankruptcy, they start seizing your assets. So that means that in a few years, if you want to spend a few days in Vegas, brush up on your chinese. 'cause those guys will own our southern neighbours. Woo hoo, all that cheap stuff we buy that's made with basically slave labour in China, will be made with slave labour in the U.S. and even cheaper.
The preceding was a sarcastic announcement brought to you by Tazweiss.
Actually, you can see it coming and it's pretty scary, if the U.S. defaults we're going to be in a world of hurt here too. When the time comes that they declare a bank holiday, I plan to reduce my bank account to a minimum. Fortunately, other than my last two truck payments, I have no other debt so I should manage not too badly. But, you're right, those who have a lot of debt will be screwed.
My wife and I no longer give gifts to each other. If we want something we go buy it. Instead of gifts we help the less fortunate. Now, a few people we know think that it's a good thing if we help out in their names instead of giving them a gift. One thing we did last Christmas caught on with friends and family to an extent that took us by surprise. They learned of our plan to just show up at a local Safeway parking lot with hot soup and buns for homeless people in the area and suddenly, they all wanted in. Remember, "You reap what you sow". If more people would help out, maybe things would be a tiny bit brighter.
A lot of people on this forum talk about helping out if TSHTF, why wait, help now. For many it's already hit the fan.
Wow, I went off on a tangent there, sorry folks.

Way to go! I personally believe that negative energy attracts negative energy,positive vibrations give off positive energy.Right now our planet is exuding so much negativity ,with what is going on around the planet.As you mention JR,it has already hit the fan,but it is never to late to start putting positivity out there by helping those less fortunate.It says to me that as a human race we are all connected (brothers & sisters) and should care about others.To some this could be a very foreign idea,and maybe, just maybe,the SHTF is the reality check we need .Just maybe we will come together as a human race and start looking at the REAL priorities we need in our lives instead of consumerism and greed.Maybe remove the pathic people from OUR government,and give power back to the people.As I type this I am thinking ,yeah right how do we do that?? I think that all or one the doomsday scenarios is going to do that for us.We cant turn back time so maybe it is best we start over, again.Maybe the way we have been programmed to think, needs to be changed,and this is the only way to create an even playing field for all humans,not just those whom hold the power.It has been written...many times...in many languages...and in many books.We are going to experience a whole new world.If we survive...For those of us that believe there is something around the corner,we seem to be doing what needs to be done....expressing ourselves..supporting each other (we are not crazy) and continuing to seek out like minded people.I think we will definitely need each other when all hell breaks loose.Just my thoughts.Thanks for reading. P

I still really dont understand how being out of debt will help if shtf...if the dollar becomes worthless they will have to institute another type of currency to replace it.
I guess if you lose your job and are indebted you could be screwed, but that seems to be the case regardless of any economic situation.
Im not sure rushing in to pay down your debt is the smartest thing to do, maybe take the money you were going to hand over to the bank and buy some stuff that might
help when food or goods become alot more expensive.
Things will get scary once the world stops using the petrodollar system,( trading oil in u.s currency), this is when investors will flee the u.s dollar and bonds thus collapsing the dollar.
And if things get really bad ie. no power, no banks, transportation etc. whos gonna come repo your stuff, so I wouldnt get to excited about paying back the bank.
Just my thoughts, I might be thinking along the wrong lines....maybe not.
IM curious as to whats happened with countries in the past that have completely fallen apart, how do you pay your mortgage when theres a worthless dollar in your hand and nothing to replace it.

"For example, if you incured a huge debt you have two choices..."

I think theres one other choice JRwakfield, and thats too start a massive war, which i beleive is well under way up to this point.

The US won't, can't start a war, it's bankrupt. If anyone is going to start a war it will be an emerging super power hungry for resourses -- China.

The planet is restless, its like having too many cooks in the kitchen, someones gonna get wacked.
The middle east is getting wise to the USA petrodollar scheme, and they want something more stable than the us dollar at this point.

Hence gold's increase. Other than that, what else? The Euro, right, another overvalued worthless currency.

As for debt and debt repayment during a shtf scenario it brings up many interesting questions.
If the dollar goes belly up how do you continue to pay the bank?

You don't. The first of the wave, like in 2008, will be thrown out of their homes. Those people will be the one's who's debt is unmanagable, loses their jobs, etc.

If the bank goes belly up do you still own your house?

Under the current scheme, who ever buys the bank's assets owns your mortgage. If no one can buy the assets you own the home.

If the shit really hits the fan will any of this matter? You might actually be better off having incurred tons of debt to this point as repayment will be impossible if theres no dollar or no bank to take it to.

Fine if you are down the poll, what you don't want to be is the first people to fall.

What if land titles records get destroyed, or all of your electronic banking info is deleted, if things ever got to this extreme it would be an unbeleivable mess.

Some argue this is the real dark ages. Soon as computers fail, all that knowledge, including this forum, remains unreadable magnetic charges on a bit of metal disk.

Best advice Be Prepared cause piss poor planning and preperation equals piss poor performance.

True, except for one problem. We are currently living in a managed chaotic system. Soon as the management of that chaos evaporates, we have unpredictable chaotic system. THis is why I do not predict the future, only hope the dart I threw is close to the one that makes us survive. All I can do is up my odds a bit.

Hi JRWakefield.
I have something to add to your post.
If you declare bankruptcy, they start seizing your assets. So that means that in a few years, if you want to spend a few days in Vegas, brush up on your chinese. 'cause those guys will own our southern neighbours. Woo hoo, all that cheap stuff we buy that's made with basically slave labour in China, will be made with slave labour in the U.S. and even cheaper.
The preceding was a sarcastic announcement brought to you by Tazweiss.
Actually, you can see it coming and it's pretty scary, if the U.S. defaults we're going to be in a world of hurt here too. When the time comes that they declare a bank holiday, I plan to reduce my bank account to a minimum. Fortunately, other than my last two truck payments, I have no other debt so I should manage not too badly. But, you're right, those who have a lot of debt will be screwed.
My wife and I no longer give gifts to each other. If we want something we go buy it. Instead of gifts we help the less fortunate. Now, a few people we know think that it's a good thing if we help out in their names instead of giving them a gift. One thing we did last Christmas caught on with friends and family to an extent that took us by surprise. They learned of our plan to just show up at a local Safeway parking lot with hot soup and buns for homeless people in the area and suddenly, they all wanted in. Remember, "You reap what you sow". If more people would help out, maybe things would be a tiny bit brighter.
A lot of people on this forum talk about helping out if TSHTF, why wait, help now. For many it's already hit the fan.
Wow, I went off on a tangent there, sorry folks.

If anyone hasn't seen it yet, I highly recommend the film "Too Big To Fail." Falure of the financial system means no food in the stores. It's that simple. Society is three meals away from anarchy. That's the reality. Being thrown on the street in the first wave of defaults is only the tip of the problem. They will be roaming for both a place to live and for food, hence massive rioting. That's why I moved out of the big city.

Anyone who understands evolutionary biology will be familiar with the term Punctuated Equilibrium. It means that the system continues as is as pressure mounts trying to change it. It can resist that change until it reaches the breaking point and a punctuation event occurs rapidly altering the ecosystem where it stays in another period of stability. The economy will suffer the same effect. Hence this equilibrium period since the punctuation event of 2008.