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Brainstorming and a question

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(@downeastrailfan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Topic starter  

I'm at the point where I've decided I need to relocate from the city to a rural area, hopefully within the next two years. My idea is a shipping container home, which not only reduces construction costs, but is stronger than conventional wood construction and better able to withstand storms. Perhaps utilize freecycling materials to keep costs down. My ideal neighbours would be hippies, preppers and/or Mennonites.

I was wondering if I could avoid the cost of a septic by going with a composting toilet and grey water system. Does anyone know if this is allowed for a permanent dwelling in NS? I believe the bylaws differ in each county.

Additionally, I want to keep the mortgage as low as possible. I've always rented and don't know much about financing. How much would I have to borrow to get a mortgage?



   
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(@lgsbrooks)
Honorable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 647
 

From what I have researched compost toilets can be put in any home/cabin/seacan...they are not hooked up to anythiing so don't need to follow any code...here in Alberta seacans are available for $2000-6000...used or you can purchase new ...there is a company in edmonton that will do electrical hookup in them as well as insulation...research your area, there may be some company there also



   
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(@perfesser)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 961
 

I think your biggest obstacle at first will be getting a mortgage on undeveloped property. Without a house on it you'll have trouble borrowing money for it.
I was able to do it but only because I already owned a house that was free and clear. Look into that first and then I think you'll be looking for a property with at least some kind of dwelling on it.



   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

Downeastrailfan the question is how much money do you have to get a mortgage? The answer is that it depends on the size of the mortgage. The larger the mortgage the bigger the down payment you will have to have. The minimum down payment in Canada is 5% but can be as much as 20%. Perfesser is right you will find it VERY difficult to get a mortgage on vacant land. If you are in a position to use a line a credit that would be the way to go. Also no institution will lend you funds unless they know exactly what they are for. Once you describe you plan I think they will be showing you the door. The resale value of such a dwelling would not be sufficient to secure their investment. Perhaps you should take it one step at a time. An older property on a suitable piece of land would be an excellent start. Probably the only way to start if you want to go the mortgage route. Otherwise save up and buy the land first then go step by step. That might take some considerable time.



   
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(@plainolme)
Estimable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 110
 

Many things to think about.....others have given you some..... id like to point out that although picking up and moving out of town is a better scenario you have to think about getting to and from work (if its based in the city) No one knows your situation better than you! Alot of thinking should be done before you get yourself into debt in this ever changing world! Just some thoughts for you hope this helps, im not trying to bring you down but rather make you aware of whats at stake.



   
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(@nsprepper)
New Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 4
 

Most youtube videos of shipping containers are from people in the united states, not Canada. Certainly not from Nova Scotia with our winters (compared to BC). I've done a lot of research and testing on this, read what others have done and tried a few things myself.

If you're burying the container, the metal of shipping containers are very thin gauge which doesn't support weight on the walls. The corners of the containers hold the weight when stacked. In order to shore up the sides, you will have to reinforce with something, people have used telephone poles across the top, with 1/4 steel sheets on top of the telephone poles (bad idea, rust). If you reinforce with metal, you need to spray the outside with a sealant. You can goggle "Ames Blue Max Liquid Rubber" or if buying locally, you can get the Blue Seal waterproofing membrane at Home Depot. This is really expensive to spray a full container properly with two coats.

If you're not burying the container, you're going to have problems with heating and condensation if done improperly. Most people will do 2" strips of wood glued + screwed to the inside of the walls, followed by 1 or 2" of foam bord, caulked and taped, then 1/2 to 3/4" plywood walls for insulation. Same goes for the roof and floor, but you should do 2x4 on the floor in case of water seepage. To do this properly, you're using marine grade plywood and blue-wood for mould / insect / water resist.

In either scenario, you'll want to have a solid base, for leveling and water run off. Renting a front excavator from a local rent store is a good idea (get one with a front blade attachment) and you'll have to put down a good 3-4" crushed gravel (1/4") as a solid base, and compact. The blade attachment does wonders for the leveling once you learn how to use it. A hand compactor gives you a headache after the first hour, and you'll be at it for 3-4 hours. If you want a permanent housing solution, you would put 3-4" of concrete on top of the gravel and have it bowed in the center for water run off. It all depends on the piece of land you're using though.

You can fit a small wood stove in the container, i've seen videos on it done right. Have the flu go through the side wall, and not the ceiling. Going straight up through the ceiling usually causes water issues.

But you know what, to do this "right" is going to cost a LOT. Time and money. Sure, you can throw down a 20' shipping container from kijiji for $3k.. but you'll probably want the 40ft tall boy which will run ya 7 grand plus delivery. If you want it to last more than 5 years, you'll be outfitting it, insulating and all of that, which will cost thousands. But you know what? The easier solution is to buy a used motor home or trailer which runs off of inexpensive propane. It'll most likely come with a small fridge and stove that also runs off of propane.. and the best part is, a motor home with foundation is classified as living quarters, so you can get insurance on it, and then have a mortgage on the property you're looking for.

I'm not against shipping container homes, but it takes a lot of work to prep them for winter usage here. You also wouldn't want it to rust out on you.. even though they are treated for sea water usage - the metal is meant to get wet and dry properly.. when it's sitting on the ground it has no airflow around the base, and you see them rust out all the time.



   
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(@downeastrailfan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Topic starter  

Thank you for your comprehensive feedback. Its just an idea right now. I might just go with conventional wood construction if zoning and insurance prove to be hassles. Doing anything out of the mainstream of construction requires specialized knowledge, and that could prove costly and problematic if builders are learning as they are working. As you mentioned, hot and cold transfer are a concern with metal forming condensation. I'm very much allergic to mold, so this cannot be an issue in my home. For that reason, campers are out. I looked at gutting an Airstream and rebuilding, but that's too expensive, and would really only be a seasonal home.

I don't know any container homes in NS, but these folks in Maine have one: http://www.thearkhaus.com/ I would think their climate is very similar to ours.

I figure I'm still two years away from starting this project. Lots of time left to consider options.



   
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(@downeastrailfan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Topic starter  

I should also mention this is not a bug out, it will be my permanent, year round home. My idea was to have 2 or 3 40' or 53' containers sitting lengthway next to each other and to add a pitched roof to avoid water pooling between containers. Framing and insulating the outside might help with the moisture transfer.



   
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(@reluctantprepper)
Trusted Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 50
 

I've seen great shipping container conversions in Mexico, but it's warm and dry there. I would be worried about ending up with a pile of rust here in Cold and wet Nova Scotia. If it was above ground you could regularly coat it in old motor oil, supposing it wouldn't spill onto the ground. Sounds like a maintenance and environmental headache. Maybe you could use car undercoating?


“Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success.” -- Henry Ford


   
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BelowTheRadar
(@belowtheradar)
Reputable Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 353
 

Houses suffer form wind chill too!

I know a fellow who has a home on a farm about 1.5 hours out of a major city. His "in town home" is a holiday trailer that sat out in the open on an acreage and cost a fortune to heat. He built an uninsulated shack around the trailer to stop the wind and his heating bills were cut by a huge amount. (the shack paid for itself about 4 times the first winter) Just getting your house out of the wind saves a fortune in heating.

I have a large pine tree directly upwind and very close to my house that I am certain saves me a fortune in heating.

Just some food for thought in planning where you build your home on your lot.

I really know squat about container homes but am interested.

Good luck,
Radar


Than= I’d rather be rich than poor.
Then= I first became hungry then I ate.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.


   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

why not look to getting an older, insulated regular 40+ highway trailer?
there are insulated ones, hardwood floors and insulated walls and ceilings for next to nothing. Auctions or even yards where they are getting rid of old stock, lots of options as well. You can pick them up for as low as $1000, put them side by side, put a roof on them, add pilers around them, reside them, etc etc.
Some have roll up doors, barn doors, side doors and you can just put them in any position you want too.



   
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(@downeastrailfan)
Eminent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 20
Topic starter  

Its gonna be some time before I can build a house. Looking at moving to Alberta for work, so the homestead dream might have to wait a few years.



   
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(@offthepath)
Estimable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 112
 

Downeastrailfan, I think you have time...at least that's my optomistic side speaking...me pessimistic side says run for the hills though.
Split personalities are a bitch!!



   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

why not look to getting an older, insulated regular 40+ highway trailer?
there are insulated ones, hardwood floors and insulated walls and ceilings for next to nothing. Auctions or even yards where they are getting rid of old stock, lots of options as well. You can pick them up for as low as $1000, put them side by side, put a roof on them, add pilers around them, reside them, etc etc.
Some have roll up doors, barn doors, side doors and you can just put them in any position you want too.

I drove TT for a number of years trailers hardly hold any heat. They have very thin insulation and the propane is running constantly. It may be good for some warmer areas but definately not the Canadian prairies.

Also I have seen some pretty nasty spills on those floors and I would not subject anyone I cared about to living with the offgassing over time since the wood absorbes plenty. I have seen oil and chemical spills due to someone forking the containers.



   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

Side note. You may look into the refridgerated trailers with the aluminum floors. Wash them out and screw some plywood decking on it.



   
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