I lived the first 3rd of my life without electricity or telephone. They are a convenience not a necessity but many are still prepping in an attempt to keep up with the Joneses.

Those of us who have experienced life before the Internet and social networking will be ahead of the game. Can you all do without your phone or radios ect. Can you function without someone telling you what the weather will be like tomorrow? These behavioral addictions will cause some serious adjustment problems that will get in the way of making sensible decisions during hard times. Cabin fever is real and serious. Isolation is not the norm these days.

that's why i store books not thumb drives and PDF's files (yes i have both) but when it comes to thinks i'm GOING TO NEED post fan, they are in hard copy. while they don't need EMP/CME protection, nor do they need more then enough light to use them, they do need water/fire protection. . . nothing is bomb proof (save a good bunker lol)

but there are benefits to alt power, and solar and wind can provide them all. i have more then one friend that can run everything off the sun for some time. some have dabbled with wind, it's not as good but works on cloudy days. when either of those aren't working i've seen the set ups to run the whole house/work shop and shelter from the batteries with a genny charging it. of course you now have fuel storage and noise, but on top of that mountain it doesn't matter much.

i've seen others isolate genny's so the sound goes straight up (back of a truck bed 20 feet away you COULD NOT heard it) i've also seen genny's run with a mufflers so there was NO NOISE outside.

working with out power is a noble cause, but working with power keeps your security system working when you are not. having a slow cooker, or a microwave is great, having a fridge and freezer is not an option to go without to some . . . all this can be achieved on a budge. . .

it's just what every way you want to go. my limited solar power is only limited by the fact it's in the barn and not getting rays. . . so many jobs, so little free time. 😛

I have wind and solar with batteries and a back up generator with a very large tank. For those who are security minded, these are very difficult to keep hidden. A big pinwheel on top of a 100 ft. pole is kind of hard to miss and tanks run dry. No, I am not in the boonies and my place would be difficult to defend so it will be a battle of wits; not guns and we do have a sufficient source of brain power stocked up.

Up North is going to be very crowded and people there,not the guys with caches maybe, are going to be in pretty desparate conditions because they won't know what to do when push comes to shove and all the imaginary game that everyone is hunting and trapping will be just that; imaginary. By the way, don't get me wrong. If I could find/afford a place that was only accessible by plane, I would be there.

So I can run power tools anywhere on my place until I cannot get spare parts for the pinwheel which will eventually wear out like everything else. People may raid or smash the solar panels or mother nature might do it for me. Now the power tools are gone unless I have the ability or knowledge in my family to build an electrical generater which so happens I do. However, someone will still have to get off their butt to ride the bike, to make the electricity, to power the tools, to make the repairs on the house that Jack built.

What I am saying is; I don't need all this stuff including the refridgerator. As long as you are tied to these things like a bad marriage, you are going to be mighty miserable in a true SHTF scenario. The problem as I see it is, that people are prepping to maintain creature comforts with the veiw to not having to do back breaking work like in the old days. I feel that is self defeating and not realistic. You don't need to have skills or even a lot of supplies to show up at my door, just a stong back, a willingness to use it, and low expectations of what is needed to have a good life.

I have wind and solar with batteries and a back up generator with a very large tank. For those who are security minded, these are very difficult to keep hidden. A big pinwheel on top of a 100 ft. pole is kind of hard to miss and tanks run dry. No, I am not in the boonies and my place would be difficult to defend so it will be a battle of wits; not guns and we do have a sufficient source of brain power stocked up.

Up North is going to be very crowded and people there,not the guys with caches maybe, are going to be in pretty desparate conditions because they won't know what to do when push comes to shove and all the imaginary game that everyone is hunting and trapping will be just that; imaginary. By the way, don't get me wrong. If I could find/afford a place that was only accessible by plane, I would be there.

So I can run power tools anywhere on my place until I cannot get spare parts for the pinwheel which will eventually wear out like everything else. People may raid or smash the solar panels or mother nature might do it for me. Now the power tools are gone unless I have the ability or knowledge in my family to build an electrical generater which so happens I do. However, someone will still have to get off their butt to ride the bike, to make the electricity, to power the tools, to make the repairs on the house that Jack built.

What I am saying is; I don't need all this stuff including the refrigerator. As long as you are tied to these things like a bad marriage, you are going to be mighty miserable in a true SHTF scenario. The problem as I see it is, that people are prepping to maintain creature comforts with the veiw to not having to do back breaking work like in the old days. I feel that is self defeating and not realistic. You don't need to have skills or even a lot of supplies to show up at my door, just a stong back, a willingness to use it, and low expectations of what is needed to have a good life.

i respect that a lot. . . while i like having some of the comforts of now, my concerns for power are to keep the things i do all that back breaking work for. i can live with warm water, but i want to store cold milk, i want ice when needed, and i need a place to put some of the harvest. glass breaks, and while i have a lot of jars, i don't want all my veggies in one basket (groan, bad joke) drying and dehydrating sure, but why not freezing too. but that's for me. . .

we each have an idea of what things might be like and how people will react, there are many good accounts of people being in the wrong place at the wrong time. i read one journal (so to speak) of an American family stuck in egypt during their revolution. . . he had good friends and lived. others near by weren't so lucky.

i like your principles, i won't mind meeting you post fan 😀

Please do not get me wrong .I have solar system and generator but why you so insist on having electrical power. I make sure to have all the hand tools needed for making stuff, fixing stuff and all the tools to make life easier.Last time I was working in Asia our power tools did not arrived from Canada for a month so i hire local people with hand tools and no power tools could do better job.I did not see any fancy water filtration's,no refrigeration,no sterilization,no disinfectants and nobody was dying because of it.A lot of thinks what we call necessity is actually a luxury.I leave in northern Ontario and definitely that where i want to be if any disaster strikes instead of any city. Nobody can guaranty you tomorrow so enjoy every moment of today . Henry

i have all the hand tools too, and i use them. hell they are much safer in my hands then the power tools are 😀
but my preps have one purpose, too keep me and mine alive and safe, no matter what.

if something goes boom, i'm going to be living much the same as i will now. yes i have many luxuries, and while i don't live for them, i plan on keeping my life as normal as possible. there is no reason we have to go back to the stone age if things get bad. if you have land, you should be able to live like a king (with very dirty hands) it's not going to be a walk in the park, but if i have to live in a post fan world, i'm going to sleep comfortable at night with electronic eyes watching my property. i'm going to have the fridge and freezers, i'm going to be cooking much the same way i do now, i'm going to be heating the very same way i do now. . . i'm going to (thank GOD) be in the garden more, outside with my dogs more, at work less. . .doing the things i wish i had time for now. . .

i enjoyed today very much, at the end of the day i have a very big loss, but i still was able to come home, take my dogs out, play in the yard, kiss the wife, and pick up a book. . .

my goal in life is to weather any storm the very same way, with safety and some comfort. . .life will go on, and i won't be missing a beat. (and by GOD i HAVE to have music 😀 )

We are in Canada so why not build an ice house? Before refrigeration thats the way it was done.

Good point Gravlore. We actually have one as part of an historical logging exhibit in our town. Simple to build, filled with sawdust and ice, throw in the foodstuffs and they worked!

We are in Canada so why not build an ice house? Before refrigeration thats the way it was done.

working on a root cellar, but by GOD people, why are you so against having a refrigerator in your house? do you really want to live like cavemen? sure it's not going to be easy, but when you can make something easier on you, and it benefits you in many other ways WHY NOT?

i hope the people that try to take my stuff have your mind set, i can handle fighting of hoards of the unprepared armed with rocks and slings.

how many of you against alt power have modern firearms? modern wood stoves? what's the difference?

You all know the saying "Hope for the best but prep. for the worst " If nothing happen i have all the healthy home made food at home.The worst scenario is "nuclear ,biological or chemical disaster"you could be stuck inside for some time ,when going out know which direction the wind is blowing atc. The question cold be not if you can hunt but if you can eat it even if you can touch it.That could last for weeks even months.That worries me. Henry

Refrigerators are great when you have the power to run them. When/if TSHTF if you don’t have a reliable power source, you fridge becomes a mold trap, or an Ice box if you have it. That is why I want to develop a Gasifier with a heat runoff to a propane powered Refrigerator/Freezer, and/or a water heating system. The wood gas then powers the generator for running your tools, charging your battery bank or topping up the truck gas bladder.

The mind is the most powerful tool you have, dont let it get rusty. :ugeek:

That is exactly what I have been working on Ranger but I have not been successful yet. I think I need to get a cheap second had smaller generator that I can cannibalize in my experimentation. Right now I am depending or I should say will be depending, on a large, somewhat portable, solar powered battery bank to power my freezers. In the long run wood gasification would seem to be the way to go as a renewable fuel source to power internal combustion engines. I just have to spend a lot more time on this project.

The only part on the generator that needs changing for use with a Gasifier would be to the remove the carburetor and the fuel line/tank? Your fuel air mixture would be done on the supply line.
Also note that the size of your Gasifier should match the demand of the engine. Don’t use a large Gasifier on a small engine or the chance of back flow is possible. You most likely know this already, but there are many out there that don’t.

The only part on the generator that needs changing for use with a Gasifier would be to the remove the carburetor and the fuel line/tank? Your fuel air mixture would be done on the supply line.
Also note that the size of your Gasifier should match the demand of the engine. Don’t use a large Gasifier on a small engine or the chance of back flow is possible. You most likely know this already, but there are many out there that don’t.

this is something i do plan to look more into as soon as time allows. my brother knows a guy working with them. he's got a truck going and a genny. but my brother say the guy was a little nuts. i'm just hoping he's a little nuts like i am (then we'll get along fine lol)

Ranger you are right. My problem is maintaing the correct air/fuel mixture. I need to spend more time on this project too.

A mass rocket stove with propane fridge connected could work, what do you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azHuJFg3bFE