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Building Codes...Building a shipping container home?

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(@blueflash)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 67
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I have noticed that homes built out of shipping containers is becoming more popular in the prepping community, and was wondering if Ontario building codes would allow us here to actually get a piece of land, buy about a dozen 40ft shipping containers and build a staggered type of 2 containers high square, with a central courtyard that would be protected (surrounded by containers). I think a design in a square with a drive thru 10ft wide opening(with a container overlapping & suspened above the ten ft wide opening), and build strong gate at the opening that can be closed and keep your court yard totally surrounded & secure.

Obviously, there would be much work needed to be done on the inside of the containers to cut/open/connect the containers, then add wiring, plumbing, stairs to second floor, doors, windows, and cosmetic work such as drywall in the main living quarters.
There would be many interesting things that could be done such building corner towers on the roof top of the second floor that can be security/look out towers. Also building a solid outside facing rail/fence/wall with port holes (which could be built from remnants of the main square building with steel removed from doors taken off & openings cut out), and just a simple safety railing on inside facing walls....Then build stairs from the rooftop down to the enclosed court yard and use most of the courtyard as a garden & a possible pond with fish & edible water plants....The sky would be the limit for possibilities for security, and different self sustaining food to be in the court yard...(you could even dig & make a cold room/bunker in the courtyard eventually.

But, would some type of shipping container home be possible in ontario, and with in building codes ?



   
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(@villager)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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This is pretty much what i've been sketching out, but with variations, on a smaller scale for a modest robust "home (s)"....but with 20's...ground-level only...(more expensive but easier/lighter to manouever/level @ ca. 5000lbs. with a backhoe... I would surround with strawbale on groundlevel, for superinsulation of the heatsink inside, and appearance....berming/trees on the north, overlapping/sloping east/west.
I think from the scale/arrangement you've mentioned , with 40's, that would be appear as a "compound"....
Sure, it would be fun to build with these big blocks,and a crane for a mass installation,.. and certainly effective.
I'm thinking many smaller less obtrusive precedents... and later "appropriate adjustments" to such.
This may gradually pave the way for general acceptance in the variable regional code translations/attitudes.
Too much too soon may jeopardize the subtle gain. Ya, i know.... is there time for that kind of subtle?



   
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(@perfesser)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 961
 

They're good for what they're designed for but pretty useless for housing in this climate(and most others).
Building codes aside it's not a good idea.

In addition to building all the things on the inside to make it livable you also have to build a structure around the outside to keep the elements at bay and to hold up a proper roof. The entire thing is made of a conducting material and should be completely surrounded by a structure to isolate/insulate it from the cold and heat(there isn't enough room to do it on the inside). Once you've done all that you didn't need the container in the first place/ don't need to limit your life to 8ft wide spaces.

Containers make an OK storage shed (you still need a proper roof) but are too narrow for a garage.

If you want to test it out get an old school bus and live in that for a year. Freeze all winter, boil all summer. Same thing as a container except you can't stack them (but you do get a better roof and windows too).



   
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(@jensen)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 106
 

What are you building this statement on Perfesser that they are pretty useless in this climate (and most others) ?. Have you got personal experience trying to live in a container built for personel ?. If not I think you are derailing the OP suggestion and idea out of personal preference. Personal preference is okay but its your own personal opinion. I think your post makes your opinion sound like its science and impossible and not your personal preference.

I have personal experience living in containers converted to storage, living quarters, kitchens etc. Its possible and happens everyday around the world in cold and hot climates. Each has its own challenges but its possible short term as well as long term. It is far from as complicated as described above or impossible as suggested above. Villager only overdoes it as he expects permanent structures not just a period of 10-20 years so that's all good advice. Nothing wrong with that :).

If you want some pictures and/or inspiration of container camps around the world blueflash then send me a PM and I will show you my experiences in heavy winter and in hot summers.



   
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(@villager)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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I think somehow the main feature was missed in my assessment of the benefits of using the containers as a foundation.(and i had more details which i had already posted on another topic section.) These included using the conductive nature of the steel to advantage as a transitional heatsink , incorporating insulated/ground-source warmth, channeled up thru to the superinsulated (sips)1-2 story house above.
To repeat some relevant detail, ..the intent was to use the 2 parallel cont's. as a levelled base,min. 12' apart for "garage"in the middle --surrounded by strawbale outside, transition/ berm on northside, sprayfoam southside doors on the inside. (optional small greenhouse/buffer as well in front of each southside C.-doors, one with compost-toilet)
The container-anchored house-platform/deck would cantilever/overlap the outer foundation walls and the south-side garage entrance with insulated door.
Simpler combinations with shedroofs/growroofs for temporary and designated functions and workshops would likely come first, in order to make the dwelling-building process more efficient.
SO many possibilities.
I have a friend also who is living in a well- insulated 40' can thru this past winter, and was cozy.
Jensen, i'd also be interested in your "can-tell" for more ideas.



   
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 Syn
(@syn)
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Joined: 14 years ago
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I think this is especially worthy of consideration of how to do it right if one is also acquiring the containers to move to a new site . Better to use them effectively than to leave them sitting as 'storage' units. You are not restricted to the confined 8 foot span of the interior of the container , you can structure them so you roof spanning the spaces between containers for more open living space , keeping in mind how the container structure is designed to bear weight.



   
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(@bandit86)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 203
 

A dozen containers and furnishing would pay for a truck and a trailer. While less permanent it has the bonus of you up and leaving if you need to.

A steel container in ontario would bankrupt you if you wanted to insulate it. They do not take to being buried in the ground as the walls are made for vertical loading by containers on all 4 corners.. With a real the work involved you might be better off building brick.


Want to see the future, past or the unknown? Learn to be psychic. Ask me how!
A good time to invest in spf3000 if you live on the NK penninsula.
Oh November 17, how I fear thee...


   
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(@villager)
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I foresee a blend of both. Assuming adequate access, and if the intention is "permanent", you can't beat the sea-cans for quick, secure workshop/equipment/storage space in a relatively remote location, while building infrastructure over time....and living in a prebuilt trailer-cabin....all in a short building window, and before the snow flies.
The cans are also bearproof when all factors are taken care of.
(This particular structure is meant to be our common meetin/eatin'/sleepin' house in the beginning.)
Note that i don't propose to "bury"them, but only want 2/3- hi , tapered berm across the narrower,foamed north/northwest ends, and less expensive, non-supportive strawbale/stucco on the long sides. 3 - 2x6x1/4 steel tube across the ends will resist berm-pressure.
The supportive corners will each be code-beamed/anchored in pairs to carry the house platform and accommodate the insulation, ...the greatest freespan being 12'-16' for the garage/shop.
Compared to the necessity of a continuous cement foundation for brick, i think the resultant costs might be close or less with cans. Consider too, that in our case we anticipate uneven, subsurface bedrock.
For the features we're after, we won't really know the challenges till we're into it, but no harm in pre-empting potential problems by relevant dialog. Please shout out any glaring erroneous presumptions on my part. I love versatility in designing/building. Hopefully we can dis-cover the most appropriate pattern which addresses our common needs/features in a changing future.



   
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(@henry)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 225
 

I am not an expert but have 4 years of civil engineering in Europe , so have some knowledge plus I went trough few building permits in northern Ont.
From some of the ideas (please no offence, just being honest and strait) some of you are under influence or just day dreaming. Why would you spent twice the amount of money to make it safe and livable , instead going standard and simple and faster.
Henry



   
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(@jensen)
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Oh dear... Henry the original question was... "But, would some type of shipping container home be possible in ontario, and with in building codes ?".

Lets see here. Assuming he builds his container house where there is no building codes as in most areas up in Northern Ontario he should be okay in regards to building codes. If not consultation with an architect should help him with that.

Is it then possible ?. Absolutely it is. Now I have no interest myself in living in a container having done that for 6 months in a war zone during deployment. But to come out and say that people "are under the influence or daydreaming" considering this or speculating doing this is a bit too much. You have a right to your opinion but dismissing them like that is not right. Not to mention I would be interested in your price assumption ?. You say it is twice the amount of money compared to what ?. Where do you get your numbers from, what is your experience with prefab containers or converting containers ?. What you really are doing here is just shooting down an idea with no facts just a "I don't like this idea" opinion. Its your right and you should voice it when you feel strongly about it but in a respectful manner. You are after all not basing your opinion on any experience or in research in prefab housing.

I hate to burst some folks bubbles but its relatively easy to convert a container home if you have some building experience and the tools and materials available. Its also very cheap compared to conventional houses. Its a heck of a lot of work to move the home in place and you are very limited in your designs. But possible and cheap yes. Its why many remote forestry and drilling companies use them. Its why many countries temporary military bases are made of prefab containers.



   
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(@villager)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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Hey Henry....
Thanks for your generalized comment , taking an interest..and no offense ;)......Although it would help more if you were specific about what parts of the ideas you are referring to as "dreaming". Then you'd have to be prepared to understand the basics which you think i'm building on.

I don't agree that what i propose would be twice the cost of standard/simple. What is that based on?
Even if it was actually more, it would be because of extra features which may have different values from what some people prefer...(and, you get what you pay for).
In any case, if i were to itemize all the details and procedure to justify a design to anyone, it would take several pages to really evaluate.

I've built many things over 40 years, including one of the first geodesic domes in ontario, barn renos, standard houses, garages, sheds, oldfashioned lath/stucco,wattle and daub, in europe, etc...

Standard is not appropriate for all situations, .....and it's boring to me, as well.
Especially where there is no permit required, i'll watch for ways of expressing my creative engineering, while abiding by code/safety. That might "cost" extra time, but so does exceptional conjugality !
Wondering a bit what it might be like to have you on a building crew/project :0
Cheers,Henry...keep your sense of humour.



   
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(@henry)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 225
 

Hey Jensen heard of ATCO Structures ? ( portable prefab) spent many years designing them so I can easily compere and estimate. Just so you now I am not just talking.
Henry



   
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(@jensen)
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My experience is that we converted the shipping containers onsite in our home country using local builders. Then we shipped them down to the war zone and setup a camp. As the camp grew and needed different prefab containers these were built back home and shipped down and incorporated into the different camps. Anything from recreation, kitchen, laundry, toilet, shower, office, sleeping prefabs etc.

I have never heard of ATCO structures but after having a look I can see its probably more permanent metal structures than what I have experienced. I still don't see how you with your ATCO experience then can post what you did. You should then know that it is possible to build portable prefabs and converting a shipping container. I have no idea of the cost of an ATCO portable prefab cost price so I cannot compare the two costs against each other (ATCO Portable Prefab versus converting a shipping container). But I kind of get the feeling that you might know the cost of a ATCO portable Prefab but might not know about the costs associated with converting a shipping container. To be fair its not like the original poster was considering contracting a multi company like ATCO to build his prefabs for him ;).



   
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(@henry)
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Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 225
 

Hey Jensen I look at things different way. This is prepprer site and I consider myself survivalist/prepprer. Few ears ago I had some so called preppers over my place and heard those theoretical non practical ideas. After few years they are still TALKING only. To me being prepper is being practical.
I can say that I am completely independent and self sufficient with food, heating, energy, security, defence and communications.
That is why when people are talking and talking for years I call them dreamers. I did spent some money but mostly it just hard work.
Some of these people asking for specific details , To me it is like asking how to run marathon before you can walk.
That is why I said " no offence" because I know and met some very practical and REAL preppers.
I like people that not just talk but walk their talk. Always ask your self question : if something happen next week AM I READY ? IF NOT I START WORKING HARDER AND STOP DREAMING.
If after few years of talking you are in the same position , you are wasting your time .
Henry



   
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(@jensen)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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Hey Jensen I look at things different way. This is prepprer site and I consider myself survivalist/prepprer. Few ears ago I had some so called preppers over my place and heard those theoretical non practical ideas. After few years they are still TALKING only. To me being prepper is being practical.
I can say that I am completely independent and self sufficient with food, heating, energy, security, defence and communications.
That is why when people are talking and talking for years I call them dreamers. I did spent some money but mostly it just hard work.
Some of these people asking for specific details , To me it is like asking how to run marathon before you can walk.
That is why I said " no offence" because I know and met some very practical and REAL preppers.
I like people that not just talk but walk their talk. Always ask your self question : if something happen next week AM I READY ? IF NOT I START WORKING HARDER AND STOP DREAMING.
If after few years of talking you are in the same position , you are wasting your time .
Henry

Okay... Let me try to understand how me calling you out on shooting a posters idea`completely down and offering no advice and explanation beyond stating that "people are daydreaming" and "it is twice the cost" made it into you reasserting yourself as a "survivalist/prepper" and "I had a bad experience offering advice to want to be preppers" therefore "you should stop dreaming and work harder if not you are wasting your time". You make no sense at all henry.

I will not judge you or anyone else especially not like seem to you judge people around you. What do you know about the original poster ?. What reason does he give you to believe he is daydreaming ?. The original poster asked for advice. You did NOT offer it, you just didn't like his idea. But who are you that we should follow your tune so blindly ?. Coming back when challenged with an explanation on your dismissal and comments with the above is simply weird. Again it makes no sense at all.

Please try and understand that people DO start prepping yesterday, tomorrow and maybe even next week. We have not all reached Nirvana in prepping so we can sit back and post judgment and discourage people from prepping like you supposedly have This forum I believe was meant for likeminded people to bounce ideas off each other, build networks and be in a stronger position if anything ever should happen. Not for people to feel morally superior over others. Now whether the original OP actually buys a shipping container, cuts in a door and windows, isolates it etc and then hauls it to a location for it to be his BOB is his decision and I will not feel having wasted my time answering his question either way. I certainly will not call him different things like you did.

So now that I have addressed your really non subject related post/glorification rant. Would you care to explain your initial dismissal with valid argumentation or should we just leave it here ?. I suggest we do.

Also I would like to apologise in advice for calling you out. Its never a nice thing to do I know. But I thought you were being unfair and rude to the OP and I also knew from personal experience that its possible contrary to your view. Fact versus B*.



   
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