Off grid...

I don't know anyone who is completely off the grid. Some I know have tried but, it cost them a small fortune and they still have to pay some sort of a hydro bill.

i don't think you can shut off the grid power...it has to be supplied, thats why they get away with charging so much money for 'delivery'. my delivery costs most summer months are much more than the actual cost of the hydro im using.

what i will do is replace my current breaker panel with a panel allowing two switches, one for national grid power and the other for power supplied via 12 volt 'storage' batteries. id use my own hydro all year round, switching to grid for maintainence/ repairs. id also go hydro with all my propane appliances.

if the grid goes down, it wouldn't matter...or that would be the idea.

I met a man not too long ago, and he talked a little about his semi-off-grid home out in the bush. He didn't get into the specifics, but he claimed he would be very pressed if he was completely off grid. He is on solar, and said everything is running fine until winter. That every once in a while, if the weather gets really bad, he can find himself in a survival situation. Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to ask him any details. From what I got out of it, he is pretty crafty, quite handy and very frugal. All of which would be valuable in an off-grid house.

This may sound cheesy, but my family and I spent last season living out in a tent that was pitched on my wife's sisters property. We were building a cob studio and it was just simpler working, eating and sleeping right next to the build site. We only went indoors to use the bathroom and laundry. We made due with propane, candles and a bbq for the rest of our living needs.

Of course this isn't comparable to a true off-grid house, but I did learn a few things. First, I would recommend having at least three options for doing any one activity. Three different ways to cook, three different ways to provide light, three different ways to heat, etc. I'd also like to suggest incorporating DC into your home. I feel DC appliances are better suited for an off-grid house, and is more versatile overall.

i would install a hybrid system....30 300w solar panels and one 1kw wind turbine. the local authority won't allow wind turbines so i'd set up for it and just install it in a shtf scenario. the solar panels on a good day (like today...not a cloud) will produce about 8kw an hour (you never get what it says on the label!) on a bad day, cloud cover rain you can expect 30 - 40 % of the stated wattage. so it'll be about 2.5 - 3 kw hours.

on a bad day i use perhaps 1.5 kw an hour, during the day, down to .5 overnight. when my hydroponics system is final installed i think ill be doubling that amount 24/7

i want over 40 battery banks (expensive as id have to go gel...they'll be inside) so when i get that excess on those sunny days, it's stored.

i would imagine the guy you spoke with had three or four 100w panels...

theres an installer in my neighbourhood of solar panels, ive spoke with him about it, his system and all, he is actaully storing his own power in deep cycle marine batteries, roughly 50 or so of them, what the batteries dont take, it gets supplies back into the grid and the city pays you for your power, mind you its only 3 cents pkwh. when they chage us between 6 and 10 depending on your local. hes show me cheques from the city on average hes gets paid 500 bucks a month. crazy i know, i thought he was bsing me. seeing is believeing, however his system costed around 13,000 dollars. long term its worth it. if shtf the grid will probably go down.
i myself would love to get an off the grid set up. well for water or and a small lake, 3 ways to get the water to where it needs to go,holding tank,propane to heat, solar set up, have to watch with some wind turbines, make a fair amount of noise, attracting alot of attention.

Are you sure it's only 3 cents?
I though the Ont. gov. had some incentive program where you got 35cents or some ridiculous number? I was pissed because our taxes go to pay for that. Anyway I see a lot of new installation going up. A very large panel, maybe 15 x 20 feet, mounted from it's center on a large concrete post only about 8 ft off the ground.

From my searching:
Storage is the problem, not producing power. If you don't store it you pretty much have to tie in to the grid. But if you have no storage and the grid goes down, then what? Batteries are expensive and wear out, lead acid ones do anyway. You can make your own "submarine batteries". Search for Edison cell. Uses nickel and iron. Quite safe, lasts a long time.
And you need to maintain the system a bit, not so great if you aren't there for a couple of weeks.

With electric car research batteries will get much better soon, pretty sure the best and brightest are working on that right now.

Our cabin has always been off grid. In the old days, everything propane, fridge,stove, lights etc. Now we have LED lights. I'll cook on propane in the summer or wood stove when cooler, and I put in a tankless water heater. Or small CFL powered by my car booster pack/power supply.
I don't spend more than a few days at a time so I do a good cooler or just do without a fridge, no point in firing it up only to shut it off just when it gets cold. You change how you live to minimize your power use. Sit by the window to read,do much more in daylight and less at night, install skylights.

I've been watching exotic technologies too. Some guy in Italy(Rossi I think) has been chasing down cold fusion for a long time. Last I heard he was in talks with Home Depot to have a home unit out by Dec. 2012. Not tin foil hat stuff, this works.

I live completely off grid. There is no Water hook up, there is no power hook up!

In the topic I started about living in my Bug Out Vehicle it answers some of your questions. First off, I can afford a sticks and bricks location, I choose not too! This is part of my prepping and downsizing. I also feel at home here, not in a house now.
I have a bug out location, in the woods, at my buddy's place, a secondary location that is closer to me, with a stocked pond and small woodland if needed.

Power;
some small solar panels right now at my Vehicle, my buddy has more for the property, we will bring them up in the spring. Winter time, they have to be in the sun getting position, all the time, or not enough power at all. Next winter I will have two small wind turbines, one self made and the other small one, store bought.
Wind in the winter, supplemental in summer, solar supplemental at these times..
Solar in Spring - Summer - Fall, wind supplemental at these times.

You must have at least one Charge controler to make sure you do not fry your batteries. Now on YouTube there is someone who made a charge controller that diverted excess power to a heat bank, can you say awesome in the Winter. The excess power is converted into heat, now I remember this, but can not find the link 🙁

Batteries right now, two smaller 12volt electric scooter deep cycle. Better option, Semi used deep cycle Golf Cart Batteries, or a Fork Lift battery. Do some poking around, you can pick those batteries up for about $50-80 used as opposed to $300 new.

Today, I asked about some solar panels that were in a Fireplace shop, they are not used, left overs that were not installed. They run $517 each with mounting hardware. They output, max 240 volts, do not remember the watts he told me, need to look that up. These are commercial, well made, not the rinky dink stuff that Canadian Tire sells. These will last a good long time.

Carbon, the cost of 30 -300 watt solar panels, would be absolutely huge, huge cost. With the larger Golf Cart or Forklift batteries, you might only need between 5-10, so big cost savings. A few weeks ago, I was speaking with a fellow that has had used Golf Cart Batteries being used now for about 5 years and they are still going strong.

Now, my question to everyone is this, why do you need so much power? Reduce your needs and you reduce what you need to run, less power used equals less power needed. Switch to LED lights, no heat, no loss of power, and take very little energy. I forgot after Xmas time to go and get a couple of strings of Christmas LED lights to use in the Camper. Lots of lights and very little power input.
If you have a Fridge that runs on power, consider two alternatives.
A. Propane, large full sized Propane Fridge, yes about 1000 but so much more eco friendly and power friendly. They have a 110 volt back up and can be run on one 1 pound bottle for about a month, wow energy miser. That is from literature. Propane appliances have grown up.
B. Consider building and investigating, Earth Fridges. Some are made like chest freezers that go into the ground, below your kitchen, some are stand up units, open right down to the ground and into the ground with wire baskets all the way up beyond your head level. They use ? induction? air flow to chill and cool.

My little crank radio that has been using the same set of rechargable batteries, actually on the same charge from last spring, if I remember correctly is very power efficient. The radio does have a hand crank, but that is a lot of cranking every 5 min or so, or 1 set of batteries, per every 2 years. It can also bring in the weather networks.

I stopped watching TV, do not even have it hooked up, sits in a corner in my Office. I watch on Laptop or on small porty DVD player that can also play into a Low cost LCD monitor, low power, great picture, small footprint as well.

Carbon, I have seen some Aquaponics system that mostly use gravity feed or small low power water pumps, natural lighting, it all keeps the cost of power down.

I do have a small genset, it is 800w but should have gotten a 1800w system. The I could use my battery charger with it!
I cook with propane, have wood or alcohol stove as a back up, use propane to heat but have kerosene as a back up and will soon install, make a small wood burner stove in the camper.
Lighting, look for the umbrella lights, they are awesome, LED, multi purpose and 12-24 LED lights that give great all around lighting. I also want the Xmass LED's but will have to wait. Backup and nightly use of Kerosene and Oil lamps, along with homemade veggie oil lamps supply my lighting.

yea i hear cold fusion had been achieved, i wondered which company would buy the rights to it, to either stop it from hitting the markets, or market it exclusivly. im leaning more towards stopping it from hitting the market. oil companies got a firm grip on the big corporations and government.

Are you sure it's only 3 cents?
I though the Ont. gov. had some incentive program where you got 35cents or some ridiculous number? I was pissed because our taxes go to pay for that. Anyway I see a lot of new installation going up. A very large panel, maybe 15 x 20 feet, mounted from it's center on a large concrete post only about 8 ft off the ground.
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they have to pay you back what they're charging....so if it's 8 cents a kw hour, thats what they credit you...

microfit program is 0.85 cents a kw hour...numerous issues with that. it has to feed the grid directly, so if the power goes off, it goes off, no way to reroute, and you can only use materials made in ontario and it must be a provincial approved installer (and they charge a fortune)....which i know is a good thing for local commerce, but still. a 10 kw system in ontario will run you about $40,000.00....buy the parts from china, guareenteed for 25 years and you can install a full 10kw system for less than $10,000....get a charge controller so when the batteries are full it diverts to the grid and turns you meter back.....cheque from the hydro company (every three months i think)

Carbon, the cost of 30 -300 watt solar panels, would be absolutely huge, huge cost. With the larger Golf Cart or Forklift batteries, you might only need between 5-10, so big cost savings. A few weeks ago, I was speaking with a fellow that has had used Golf Cart Batteries being used now for about 5 years and they are still going strong.

Carbon, I have seen some Aquaponics system that mostly use gravity feed or small low power water pumps, natural lighting, it all keeps the cost of power down.

hey,

ive sourced out panels in China (which i know a friend used to great effect, two years on and still no issues)....$225.00 (without shipping) for a 300w. they've offered to send me one at cost and pay for shipping so i can test it. ill have to wait until the wife gets back from India before i buy though. i am having a problem sourcing batteries, and think its going to cost me more for the deep cell that the actual panels.

energy...why do i need so much? well, ive done a lot of research into light bulbs and lighting....stay away from led for hydroponics. you do not get good results with the lower end stuff and the higher end stuff runs at almost $800.00...expensive. im just testing a normal cfl bulb from Lowes...6500k, 1600 lumens, cost $5 and get this, only 23w. the seedlings i have it under are responding unbelievably...in a dark room with no other light.

the hydroponics system ive purchased is gravity fed...its wall mounted....water gets pumped to the top, and slowly runs back down through the system. but still, 500 plants, thats 15 pumps and i haven't even strated to work out how many bulbs im going to need. im just going to set up 120 plants to start off with and see how few bulbs i can get away with.

Paul.

I can get you a deal on deep cycle batteries if you buy lots I own a marina and get them at cost but you will have to come get them if that helps. Conections buddy its all about conections.

I can get you a deal on deep cycle batteries if you buy lots I own a marina and get them at cost but you will have to come get them if that helps. Conections buddy its all about conections.

sounds appealing...ill email you

http://www.alt-market.com/articles/569-going-off-grid-montana-style

I would be interested in forming a group and building a place like that in the northern part of ontario. If not in a group i will be doing it on my own this fall with a existing property i have. I grew up in a house just like that, we had hydro but the hole house was heated with a small wood stove and still is today, I pile the wood for my parents every year. when I retire in ten years I will be living in the north compleetly off the grid.