Dendrite,

Sharp observations. Yes, an escape tunnel with hatch would be a very good idea. I figured the concrete would help prevent cave-in's. Shoring with pressure treated 3/4" plywood and 4"x4" posts would be an option. Of course, bringing in a lift of 3/4" plywood might raise some eyebrows. You can bring in cement, one bag at a time. Slow. But, no one would notice.

Mountainman.

This might help with the issue of cement and such, its something we seen at Totem last weekend. A substitute for concrete;

http://www.chemque.com/pages.php?page=Fence_and_Construction_Solutions

Apparently they use it for utility poles out East when they don't have readily accessible water to make concrete.

It's only a dollar more for the equivalent bag of cement they told us. I have to look into it more to see if it stands up to alkaline or acidic soil before we decide to go with it, but the idea of no mixing in a wheel barrow, and no 40kg bags of redimix is VERY enticing. ❗

If anyone has researched this product or used it before, let me know please.

Analog Man and Muskeg,

Yeah the permit thing and ground disturbance thing has me a little concerned too. Of course, you would want to accomplish this entire project with no interference from the local authorities for several reasons. Not the least of which is that you don't want those aware of the project to come knocking at SHTF time.

Like Nighthawk said, it could be called a 'sewer issue', lol.

There are lots of things to consider here...still, I am sure it can be accomplished with enough networking, hard work and cooperation.

Thanks, everyone.

Thanks.
I agree about the takeover concern. I had thought about putting up a couple of those cloth garage tents and use them as cover. When I have had one in the past the grass was usually destroyed. If I back filled and planted grass it may not be noticed after the car tents were removed. Frankly, digging down seems much easier than digging sideways.
That post hole foam sounds great. I think if my wife ever hears about it, that will be my shtf moment after we hand mixed 44 bags for post holes.

You know how occasionally something you say out load makes you stop and think. I just had that moment. I have always considered myself more of a self sufficiency type that a prepper. The shelter was originally intended as a storm shelter, but as the planning has been going it isn't just a tornado or bad weather I was preparing for. I'm feeling kind of stunned right now, what an interesting way to finish off a nightshift.

Dang,

That Q-Set 250 stuff looks interesting. A person would need to find out what type of pour forms to use so that stuff does not adhere to it, so you can reuse your forms until the shelter is completed. Also, a person would need to find out if the cured material releases toxic fumes. And finally, it would be quite necessary to find out if the cured product is fire sensitive, ie will it burn and how easily. In theory, I like the idea. I did not look around long enough to track down a price per bucket. Worth looking into as it is very non-labour intensive.

Muskeg,

Aren't nightshifts wonderful. I haven't worked one in 5 months, funny, I don't seem to miss them....:-)

You are correct, logistically speaking digging a big hole straight down, especially with the aid of a big piece of equipment (Excavator or Back-hoe) is easier. However, easier is also more visible. If you are trying to excavate in secret, to avoid nosy neighbours or to avoid getting permits that they won't give or sell you or to avoid nosy inspectors; sometimes you do not get the choice of easy. I was just trying to put it out there that a slow excavation is possible, if you are focused on having a shelter when everyone says "No!"

I like your idea of using a temporary fabric car shelter to do the excavation. That may work, too. In urban areas, I am not sure about a septic/sewer issue. The neighbour may phone the public works department and find out why their are no sewer engineers on site. But in smaller towns that still allow personal septic tanks and fields, that could be a good ploy. Creative solutions will get us through the current challenges.

I, once pondered the idea of burying oversized concrete septic tank(s) to make a shelter. Not sure the space is less than a shipping container and I never looked up the price.

I like the idea of a root cellar. Both as a tornado shelter and a food storage location. A super-sized root cellar could work for a shelter. Just be sure to have a CO2 monitor - battery powered, in the root cellar. It is a sad day when the child is send to get a bunch of carrots and doesn't return from the root cellar.

Mountainman.

A years or two ago I was talking to a friend of mine about putting a cold storage in the back of his lot in the Barrie area. He was in a prime spot being that behind his property was a river 20ft below grade. luckly his neighbours were far enough away and couldnt see because of the trees. He bought a tall 20' OSC, spray foamed it and buried it 10 ft from the bank. He compacted all the ground around it. Then he dug a 4'wide x6' deep trench 4' from it, lined it with reinforced concrete, laid a 20'x20' poured concrete pad over the rest of the area. Then he put up his metal shed over it, He has a door and tunnel from the pit to the bunker. As far as any one knows, he has a damn fine shop.The bunker is also his man cave, but his wife know where he is. 😉

I'm not throwing a wrench into this idea as I was the first to respond with interest in my heart but the missus and I have been talking about this option and a few things have come up. This might start to ramble. Our thoughts;

1. How many scenarios are there that would require the need for a fully enclosed underground bunker?
-nuclear war, airborne militarized flu, supervolcano that causes a nuclear winter, etc.

2. Of those scenarios, how many would we want to emerge from the ground 2 years later; what kind of planet would we be left with we're thinking and would the 'fight' have been worth it?
-Would we have the ability to grow food even 2 or 3 years later with the seeds we have been able to take with us?
-Will the sun be shining through the 'clouds' yet?
-Will the virus be dead and how would we know until the seal is broken?, etc.

3. Would it be more effective to focus our energy on a compound that is out of site, a mixture of partially buried living containers and completely buried storage containers for example? Such a village would only be good for end of world scenarios that destroy civilization but not the planet or people.
- economic collapse, standard pandemic, cme, etc.

I'm only throwing this out because we(missus and I) have been talking about the different scenarios and how many resources we have to actually throw at each one. I still love the idea of a bunker for the extreme situations but I wonder if it would be better to first prepare for the scenarios that we are more likely to survive (and want to survive).

Either way, step one is setting up a legal association of shareholders and step 2 is to find and buy land. Step 3 is to set up a working base/construction/staging area. Step 4 would be to actually build whatever was decided.

I hope this isn't a dampen the discussion or causes argument. I'm hoping we can talk about this at the June meeting as typing doesn't convey the sentiment, emotion or tone unless one is a professional author.

Underground shelters seem amazing but costly and so many issues to deal with...i still think that post by (crashed) and using metal shipping containers to build a fortress of a home/cabin is the best bet! Also having a courtyard at the center of this fortress as mentioned by someone else to grow food is a brilliant idea. Now finding a low key and low priced piece of land somewhere in southern Alberta or in B.C with trees surrounding the property is the problem in my opinion... but this to me seems more practical, affordable either alone with your wife and kids or as a small prepper community.

403_Original

Cost on underground structures depends on what you are willing to do to get one.

A low cost structure can be achieved with a lot of sweat, picks, shovels, logs and a few large tarps. If you chose to setup/squat on crown land, and don't mind the possibility of being kicked off by the government agents, the costs could be very low. Sort of. You don't own it, but you may be able to occupy it. For awhile.

Just some thoughts.

Mountainman.

Dang,

You paint the rosy picture, once again. There is only one reason to "hole" up. You want to survive and live. No one has yet suggested that surviving the "Event" will provide an easy life. The big advantage of surviving the "Event", is the option of dying another day. If you can "hole" up for 2 years, most things will have cleared up, except for radiation.

Keep those excellent scenario's coming!

Mountainman.

If your going the container route, try to get the 10 ft high ones, this will give you either vent/electrical, water conduits, or storage area, below.

I built my bunker out of a 40 H.C. sea can. It workes awesome BUT if your going to use one It HAS to be reinforced properly. You need to calculate how much fill will be on top,How many pounds per sq ft,Where your water table is and a few more issues. Mine is reinforced every 4' with heavy wall 2 3/8 tubing and 6''x8'' headers every 10'. I then put rail road ties every 16'' on the top outside. This is just a basic outline of what i have done. There is alot of work involved but if done right seems to work.

Mountainman,

Thanks for the input but i was actually wondering about purchasing a small piece of land with a group of others sometime down the road and obviously with the legalities sorted out as well. I really do wanna know if anyone knows "PRICES & COST" for land in southern & northern Alberta as well as B.C.???

As for containers whats the biggest size you can buy? Are they 20Lx10Wx10H??? And how much does this size cost does anyone know?

Any input helps...thanks.

403 , land prices in B.C. are dropping.

Sea cans can be as big as 53'long and 8' or 9'6'' tall. The 20' is most common in the 8' and run around 3000 depending on condition. I paid 4500 for a 40' x 9'6'' tall in Edmonton. There are some up for auction in the Red Deer area for 2900 - 3400 for 40'.

DrDragon,

Thanks for the info on land prices in B.C because honestly thats where i really wanna get some land for me and my family. Do you know of a realtor or how do you even begin to find those pieces of land at those prices? If you can PM me with that info i would appreciate it. Thx!

Nighthawk,

Thanks for the info on the containers i was just wondering lets say i buy 4 of those containers and i had land in B.C (Near Invermere just as an example) how much and who would have to transport the containers to that location? Hope you can help. Thx.