This remains in the realm of the carburetor that burns water or the perpetual motion machines.
The claims are there and some people will swear it will work, but try and find the results of any actual testing to validate the claim.
Where are the Mythbusters when you need them?
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Faraday cages are used for protecting sensitive electronic equipment all over the world in all kinds of situations and applications. The research is there, the science is there and the applications are there. Try doing a little research on your own and you will be able to make the distinction between science and suede science.
I'm very familiar with Faraday cages and the ones I've examined have very elaborate grounding methods to discharge accumulated skin effect and induced currents. You can go inside one with galvanometers and spectrum analyzers to validate the operation of the cage and produce results for examination.
I have a technical background with 40 years experience in electronics. I also installed communications systems professionally for 5 years in the past, and was asked to research this area at one time on a community level. I've read the released information from the Russian 1962 tests and the various US military tests, and the more recent congressional report.
"hardening" equipment for EMP includes grounding to protect the electronics inside. The Faraday cages I've examined for professional/scientific use are all grounded.
I've seen a lot of information in recent years of ungrounded Faraday cages but no conclusive testing that I can find. There's a seeming consensus among some that an ungrounded cage will perform the same as a grounded one, but the evidence isn't there from what I've been able to find. And by grounding, I don't simply mean burying it because that doesn't guarantee the intended result.
What results I've seen are people dropping in a cell phone or AM/FM radio and when they don't receive a signal they conclude the device works for the entire electromagnetic spectrum. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, frequencies in the VLF (Very Low Frequency) range pass through water and structures that would block frequencies in the AM, FM, or cell phone portion of the spectrum. Incidentally, if you have a VLF receiver you can hear the effects of auroras and solar storms on the magnetic field. I can block my cell phone from ringing by sticking a gum wrapper over the antenna to block the signal, but I certainly wouldn't conclude that gum wrappers would protect my phone from an EMP from that result.
What I'm finding of late is the use of garbage cans, cookie tins, microwave ovens, etc. People insulate or line the inside and expect to store sensitive electronic equipment inside that. To me, that spells capacitor (metal-dielectric-metal), and you're storing electronics inside which are sensitive to electrostatic voltages. These containers, as I also mentioned previously, can resonate when an electromagnetic wave of the correct frequency/frequencies passes along them which in turn will induce currents in the metal container.
My conclusion is that there hasn't been any actual testing done with these containers other than at a strictly layman level.
I'm not on this side to anger or provoke you ICRCC. I would actually like for you to prove me wrong because I would consider doing it myself. But from my research, and yes, I have researched it, it remains in the realm of pseudo science.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Don't worry OutAndAbout I am neither angered or provoked by your posts. Likewise I hope that you are not when I say that you are categorically wrong in your assumption "it remains in the realm of pseudo science". Some of your conclusions in the above post are also erroneous. Again I would suggest that you do a little more research. Perhaps you could start at Federation of American Scientists, from there you will find useful links that may provide you with the research results you require.
Don't worry OutAndAbout. around here “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
“No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?”
― George Orwell, Animal Farm
alrighty, so what would i insulate my garbage or cookie tin with?
First your metal garbage can or cookie tin needs to have continuous conductivity around the lid. Once you have this you need to insulate the inside of the container so that the contents do not touch the container. In theory any electrical insulating material will do. However I would tend to go with thicker rather than thinner. Cardboard could be used but any form of flexible plastic or Styrofoam would probably be better. Also grounding the cage is not necessary unless you are planning on operating electronic equipment within the cage that will be using an external power source or antenna (not recommended). Although not up to anywhere near military specs such a Faraday cage would be more than adequate for home use.
so garbage can lined with cardboard but the lid has to touch metal all around. so after sealing wrap that tape the other guy was talking about around the outside lip where the lid meets container?
If you have continuous electrical contact around the lid you do not need the conducting electrical tape. However it would not hurt to have it.
Thats why I have been prompting the use of fine steel wool as a gasket.
"We 'Prep.' to live after a downfall, Not just to survive."
Mechanic friend of mine suggested using our garage as one big faraday. I'm thinking this would take a lot, windows, doors.
Any ideas on this?
Metal garage?
Maybe, but there would be a heck of a lot of holes & cracks to deal with.
The idea is to create a metal container that would conduct the power around and away from the inside.
Metal cans using steel wool gaskets and conductive tape around the cover sound like great ideas.
I think I heard about using the earth itself to shield, but I can't remember just how deep it needs to be.
Also, has anyone come up with a definite answer on the grounding question?
A metal garage would also need a metal floor and it would have to be completely sealed and conductive even at the doors. So in a word no. A Faraday cage does not need to be grounded. If you are inside the cage operating equipment such as a transceiver it should then be grounded. For storage of equipment not attached to an external power supply or antenna no grounding is needed.
Concerning a EMP proof container, wouldn't a simple check with a Voltage Ohm Meter (VOM) measuring the resistance between the lid and body of a container (and if the resistance is zero) predict the lack of passage of electromagnetic waves to the contents of the container? If the lip of the lid extends below the top of the container would this not block electromagnetic energy from entering the container providing continuity between the lid and the body of the container? Both CME and EMP energy will come from either above or the side of the container unless you are in an aircraft or space station above the blast. Does it not stand to reason that electromagnetic energy will fail to enter a conductive, sealed container with very few exceptions?
FEMA uses chicken wire to CME (if not EMP) proof their buildings. I'm thinking the gap between the lid and body of an ammo can (for example) would be smaller that the holes in chicken wire. If the lid and body of an ammo can are electrically conductive, I see no reason to suspect the contents of the ammo can be exposed to CME's. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Just asking,
Radar
Than= I’d rather be rich than poor.
Then= I first became hungry then I ate.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.
In a sense you are correct. However if you can imagine a 2m x 2m conducting metal plate with a 1m diameter hole in the middle, that plate would be conductive in anywhere that you measured it but it would be totally inadequate for a side to a Faraday cage. Now if you are reasonably sure that your lid to your cage (container) is conductive all the way around the perimeter and it tests ok with a multimeter then for our purposes you should be fine.
Try not to think of direction with an EMP. An EMP is a wave and waves travel around things. Ammo cans have a rubber seal which is none conducting. If I was using an ammo can for a Faraday cage I would remove the seal grind down or otherwise expose the bare metal around the lid and the top of can where the lid makes contact as mentioned in an earlier post. That way you would be reasonably sure that that you would have effective protection.
Chicken wire (depending in the gauge of the wire and the size of the mesh) may be effective in some cases of an weak EMP. It would not cut it for an HEMP. Here a major concern would be the frequency of the EMP. Personally I would not trust my sensitive electronics to chicken wire.