This is NOT B.S., I used to work for the NSA in a position much higher than Snowden and know what is going on here so take this as a bit of advice separate from the flight 370 story.

Well now, I shall expect the authorities to be contacting me soon for your IP address.
Anyone in a higher position in the NSA than Snowden who is putting out this type of info on a publicly viewable forum would surely be aware of the consequences.
I suggest you leave NZ right now and head for Russia for the protection factor.
Can you be tracked through your cell phone? Well ya, and I don't think anyone here would argue that.
However, the whole idea that the government has a secret plan to take over the world certainly belongs in the fringe area.
Let's keep this discussion to the facts of trackability of electronics devices.
Oh, and BTW, Snowden did not work for the NSA. He worked for DELL, and later Booze Allen which were contracted to administrate various systems within the NSA.

I don't envy your job, Denob 😉

My reliance on the cell is limited as my location imposes many restrictions due to lack of towers. We only got cell service about 8 years back and most of us note the 10 mile dead zones between each tower. They are high and can read each other but were in the Canadian Shield(all rock), so signals are poor at best of times. Big brother couldn't triangulate but GPS could still give you up.

Take a look at Jim's site here: http://jimstonefreelance.com/cells.html Scroll down the page about halfway to "There is something fishy with the cell towers." Let me know what you think of that piece.

But if I hear a drone coming, I'll trap a wolf and tie my electronics to its neck immediately.... 😆 (saw that on the teli)!

After the recon by the NSA sat's, foreigners in their home countries, sitting in air conditioned storage containers with joysticks in hand, will direct drones to your coordinates.

The real issue is what will folks do if they couldn't use their electronic toys daily(as in a power outage) without some sort of compromise. Do we break completely free or are there means of securing our communications so that your not being compromised.

Are Faraday cages worth the hassle?

I'll relate a personal anecdote re: cell phones. Details will be kept necessarily fuzzy.

Two guys wanted to see what would happen if they used a cell phone to "discuss bomb-making." They bought two prepaid cell phones. One phone was hidden under some leaf litter at a park site which was visible from an unsuspected location. The other phone and its owner traveled in and out of town for the next several days, leaving "bomb-making related" messages on the first phone. Sure enough, on the morning of the fourth day, local police arrived and were observed rummaging through the leaf litter where they eventually found and took the first phone. The second phone was then discarded.

BTW, cell phones do not need to be "on" to be tracked. Cell phones do not need a battery to be tracked. There is enough of an "electrical gradient" in the ambient air itself to permit not only its geo-location, but its activation, if so desired.

here's where I go in the opposite direction.....

Lets say YOU want to track someone such as your kids or spouse. How would you go about it? Pretty much the same way Big Brother would(to some extent). There is software out there that does all this in the event you should have your phone stolen. As you can imagine, most of us would take offense to being tracked , so your reasons for tracking another should take into account that the suspect will not be a happy camper, even if they have YOUR phone!

note: the battery drains much quicker when GPS is enabled, so I would think an individual would realize GPS is on within a short period of time

Here is a decent link regarding phone tracking http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-track-a-cell-phone/#ixzz2jVItdZDk .

And now for the Faraday Cage concept:

I have read much mentioning this and dwelt little on the subject as it isn't way up there on my priority list. Yet one day I was in a bulk store outlet and spotted those stainless drink shakers (I read about) for $5.00 each. I grabbed the wife's cell, threw it in the shaker and dialed it.......nothing! A cheap fix and it even doubles as a drink shaker too! Whowouldaguessed?

My comments within the quote are in red text:

Lets say YOU want to track someone such as your kids or spouse. This is always how "new technology" is sold to us i.e. as a "benefits package" - 'for the sake of the children', they bleat. Virtually no one researches the "duties" that are attached to, and an integral part of, that package... How would you go about it? Pretty much the same way Big Brother would(to some extent). Red Flag: Why would we seek to mimic Big Brother's methodology? It's HIS methodology which is being utilized to further subjugate US. There is software out there that does all this in the event you should have your phone stolen. As you can imagine, most of us would take offense to being tracked (...if they knew. Most are unaware that all their trash is being data-banked at this very moment.), so your reasons for tracking another should take into account that the suspect will not be a happy camper, even if they have YOUR phone!...

Yes, one may certainly have occasion to want to track his child. However, as the authority, I determine what methodology is "sufficiently safe" for me to utilize to effect that outcome, and I accept full responsibility for my actions (or inaction). I delegate that to no man/corporation/technology. In this battle, ignorance is not bliss - especially with the lives of our most loved ones literally on the line. I do not, cannot, pass the buck on this. Yes, wisdom is the destination, but due diligence is the pathway.

Here is a decent link regarding phone tracking http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/how-to-track-a-cell-phone/#ixzz2jVItdZDk .

I checked out that pro-technology site. Here is some of what it had to say (I have highlighted in red a few areas of concern):

"Designtechnica Corporation (d/b/a and hereinafter referred to as “Digital Trends“).

We are here to help you navigate an increasingly digital world. We are writers and editors who are the most likely within our social circles to be asked the question, "Which phone/TV/computer should I buy?" We are providers of trustworthy and unbiased product reviews written in plain English, as well as timely and entertaining coverage of the way tech is changing our lives. We are engineers, sales, and marketing specialists who provide unique solutions to our advertising partners. And we are big: 20 million monthly unique visitors and growing every month — and that's before you get to our syndicated network featuring some of the biggest destinations on the web.

Digital Trends believes that the ubiquitous integration of technology into our everyday lives is both immensely empowering and often confounding, and we resolve to help our audience make informed decisions that allow them to maximize its potential. We promise to never assume that you know what OLED or CPU stands for, nor will we underestimate the value of your take on, or expectation of, technology.

We collect information about you in various ways when you use our Services....We may also obtain information from other sources and combine that with information we collect on our Services. For example, if you create or log into your account through a third-party social media service, we will have access to certain information from that third party service...

...we automatically log your computer’s operating system, Internet Protocol (IP) address, access times, browser type and language, and the website you visited before navigating to our Services.

Additionally, when you visit our Services through your mobile device, we may also collect your unique device ID, device make and model, device IP address, mobile web browser type and version and mobile carrier. We also collect information about your usage and activity on our Services.

We may automatically collect information using “cookies.”...

We may collect information using web beacons....We use web beacons...to tell if an email has been opened and acted upon.

We may also allow third parties to use cookies, web beacons and other devices or technologies to collect information about your use of the Services....This information may be used by Digital Trends and third parties.... This Policy does not apply to, and we are not responsible for, third party cookies, web beacons or other tracking...

We may use information about you for various purposes, including to:
• link or combine with other information we obtain from third parties to help understand your needs and provide you with better service; and
• carry out any other purpose for which the information was collected.

We are based in the United States and the information we collect is governed by U.S. law. By accessing or using our websites or otherwise providing information to us, you consent to the processing and transfer of information in and to the U.S. and other countries.

We may share information about you as follows:
• with your consent or at your direction;
• with third party vendors, consultants and other service providers who are working on our behalf and need access to your information to carry out their work for us;
• in response to a request for information if we believe disclosure is in accordance with any applicable law, regulation or legal process, or as otherwise required by any applicable law, rule or regulation;
• if we believe your actions are inconsistent with the spirit or language of our user agreements or policies or to protect the rights, property and safety of Digital Trends or others; and

We may also share aggregated or de-identified information that cannot reasonably be used to identify you
Digital Trends takes reasonable measures to help protect information we collect about you in an effort to prevent loss, misuse and unauthorized access, disclosure, alteration and destruction.

...Please note that we may retain certain information as required by law or for legitimate business purposes. We may also retain cached or archived copies of your information for a certain period of time....

...When you leave the Services, you should be aware that our terms and policies no longer govern, and the policies of those third party sites will now apply. You should review the applicable terms and policies, including privacy and data gathering practices, of any site to which you navigate from the Services.

Digital Trends may provide third party content on the Services and may provide links to web pages and content of third parties....Users use such Third Party Content at their own risk.

Digital Trends claims no ownership or control over any User Content. However, by submitting or posting User Content to the Services, you grant Digital Trends a nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable and fully sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content on the Services and on third-party sites.

DIGITAL TRENDS CANNOT AND DOES NOT REPRESENT OR WARRANT THAT THE SERVICES OR OUR SERVER(S) ARE FREE OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS; THEREFORE, YOU SHOULD USE INDUSTRY-RECOGNIZED SOFTWARE TO DETECT AND DISINFECT VIRUSES FROM ANY DOWNLOAD.

Digital Trends reserves the right to modify...the Services, or any features or portions thereof, without prior notice...."

Obviously, the Digital Trends site is fully aligned with what we might dub The New World Order. Merchants are not permitted to advertise their wares in the commercial marketplace unless they are so aligned. So this corporation is not a solution to anything; indeed, it is part-and-parcel of the ongoing problem.

Most of those visiting this prepper site would agree that our respective societies are deteriorating, and the majority is ill-prepared to face that deterioration.

Few people understand why we have become morally bankrupt, facing daily crimes of great variety and incredible atrocity. But, this is only part of the horror; the rest of the story is that many of us subscribe to ungodly values without realizing that we have also fallen victim to this trap.

I have certain acquaintances who promote indulgence in personal selfishness i.e. greed and pride, physical lust, and anger; they encourage others to deliberately indulge in them. They have a strong desire for power over others, and a strong desire for accumulation of wealth and material possessions.

This crisis is all the more sinister because it is invisible to those who have already become captive to its lie. How did we get to this point? And are you willing to further relinquish your God-given authority?

No offense intended, but this thread was "shot in the foot" from its onset. It began with a premise, i.e. "Breaking Free of your Electronic Toys," but has thus far failed to deliver on its promise. We need to deal with the root of the problem first, and not merely its symptoms.

And now for the Faraday Cage concept:

I have read much mentioning this and dwelt little on the subject as it isn't way up there on my priority list.

(BTW, there was a Faraday cage for sale here awhile back: https://www.gcsurplus.ca/mn-eng.cfm?snc=wfsav&sc=enc-bid&scn=154083&lcn=299317&lct=L&srchtype=&lci=&str=31&ltnf=1&frmsr=1&sf=ferm-clos . It wouldn't fit my BOB or my BOL.)

Yet one day I was in a bulk store outlet and spotted those stainless drink shakers (I read about) for $5.00 each. I grabbed the wife's cell, threw it in the shaker and dialed it.......nothing! A cheap fix and it even doubles as a drink shaker too! Whowouldaguessed?

Without a beta test, I'd have to call B.S. on that for now. There are protocols (materials, grounding, etc.) with F. cages which cannot be fudged if one expects it to perform as intended. Your "caged" phone may not have rung at your dialing, but that's no proof of a fix.

At a minimum, a thorough shake-out of the drink shaker cage is in order. Of course, once you remove it from its cage and/or fire it up, you're back to square-one and in need of "Breaking Free..."

Well, I have done the test to my satisfaction, so I guess it's now your turn!

I can tell by how you post and react, that your a fairly emotional person who likely argues alot by nature. What knowledge you present is often hard to swallow but most of us try to ignore that minor detail. Yet you accuse others of being full of crap for much more reasonable and believable opinions. I gave you credit for pointing out that selected items produced emissions. Meanwhile, I take much you say with a grain of salt as provoking people who continually "rant" just chases the logical people away(as you are now doing) until there is no one left but the ranter himself.....sound familiar? I bet it does and it probably happens to you alot in life!

I doubt that you will fair well in life unless you work a little harder on your social skills...You can and have stated a few valid points in this thread, but most of what you've done is bicker....nitpick until you hit folks nerves! Why? When your done, do you feel satisfaction that you had last word? You dropped in a 3 page essay on just an option so that preppers can track their family members ( in case their not responding to your beck and call). Does that mean that your next response to my finally addressing your antics will be to punish readers with 300 pages?

And BTW, your childish antics have pretty much ruined this thread as it is become 90+% argument and only 10 % knowledge....

I can tell by how you post and react, that your a fairly emotional person who likely argues alot by nature.

Actually, I am the typical male who is not very emotional. And I don’t like to argue. BUT, when the truth is on the table, I will defend it rather than suck up to others. In short, I don’t give a twit what you or anyone else thinks about me. I value the truth, and not the approbation of men.

What knowledge you present is often hard to swallow but most of us try to ignore that minor detail.

Wouldn’t it be easy if it was indeed a “minor detail”? Who do YOU look to for the authority to do the things you do?

Yet you accuse others of being full of crap for much more reasonable and believable opinions.

If you have a dissenting (or assenting) view, then by all means post what you know to the edification of us all. If you wish to criticize, you must first join in the action.

I gave you credit for pointing out that selected items produced emissions.

Thanks, but I don’t do “credit.” The borrower is slave to the lender.

Meanwhile, I take much you say with a grain of salt as provoking people who continually "rant" just chases the logical people away(as you are now doing) until there is no one left but the ranter himself.....sound familiar?

Wouldn’t it be easy if I was indeed a “ranter”? Create the strawman you need if it allows you to sleep easy at night.

I bet it does and it probably happens to you alot in life!

It doesn’t, but only because people who value the truth above their possessions are now coming out of the woodwork in these times that are presently upon us...

I doubt that you will fair well in life unless you work a little harder on your social skills...

I’m not here to be “social” - how about you? I’m not here looking for backslaps - how about you? I am here to learn from the experience of others in the area of prepping for what many of us know is at the door.

As far as “fairing well in life,” my life is nearly over and I have zero regrets - nothing short of an amazing history of which I shall spare you here.

You can and have stated a few valid points in this thread, but most of what you've done is bicker....nitpick until you hit folks nerves! Why?

Good! Because you are going to need that feeling of incompleteness and dissatisfaction that you are so unaccustomed to receiving in your world of gadgets, TV, and creamed coffee. Worse, there are others, now or later, who will be looking to you for expected wisdom and leadership...

When your done, do you feel satisfaction that you had last word?

It’s never about any “last word.” It’s about the truth and performing due diligence to obtain it.

You dropped in a 3 page essay on just an option so that preppers can track their family members ( in case their not responding to your beck and call). Does that mean that your next response to my finally addressing your antics will be to punish readers with 300 pages?

It’s a sad day when the rewards that come from seeking the gems of truth through performing due diligence are seen as a “punishment.”

And BTW, your childish antics have pretty much ruined this thread as it is become 90+% argument and only 10 % knowledge....

That’s a better percentage than most internet forums.

But at least, you’ve gotten angry enough to get off the couch!

The truth is, you have been dishonest, if only ignorantly, in the posting of this, your opening thread, “Breaking Free of your Electronic Toys.” You’re not interested in breaking free of them. You’re not interested in performing due diligence in the pursuit of truth. You are interested in maintaining your box full of toys for which justifications are endlessly supplied.

We each shall reap what we have sown. Selah.

Well that wasn't 1/2 a long as I'd expected it was going to be! I do admit that the "breaking free" title wasn't quite the right angle to tag it as it seems misleading in retrospect....shoulda named it "Ranter's Corner" as it turned out.

The point I was working towards is that we don't have to drop using our electronics, just learn their limits and weaknesses. Richard Stallman(one of the founders of the Linux OS) has the right attitude in sharing knowledge for the betterment of mankind, not hoarding or condemning it! But too, don't let it run your life! He doesn't even carry a cell due to his distrust of controlling it's signal. So be it, his choice!

I try to present options for others to choose from with out ramming my thoughts down others throats....on that note, you should try to present some ideas yourself and refrain from criticizing with no real proof other than your own self proclamations.

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Well that wasn't 1/2 a long as I'd expected it was going to be!

Sorry to disappoint you.

....on that note, you should try to present some ideas yourself and refrain from criticizing with no real proof other than your own self proclamations.

The “ideas” have been posted; not the least of which is the fact that electronic signatures are a no-no in a BO sitch. Apparently, the half-dozen links (NYPost, WashTimes, youtube vids) = “no real proof” to you.

I try to present options for others to choose from with out ramming my thoughts down others throats

Then quit whining and get to work.
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This is NOT B.S., I used to work for the NSA in a position much higher than Snowden and know what is going on here so take this as a bit of advice separate from the flight 370 story.

Well now, I shall expect the authorities to be contacting me soon for your IP address.
Anyone in a higher position in the NSA than Snowden who is putting out this type of info on a publicly viewable forum would surely be aware of the consequences.
I suggest you leave NZ right now and head for Russia for the protection factor.
Can you be tracked through your cell phone? Well ya, and I don't think anyone here would argue that.
However, the whole idea that the government has a secret plan to take over the world certainly belongs in the fringe area.
Let's keep this discussion to the facts of trackability of electronics devices.
Oh, and BTW, Snowden did not work for the NSA. He worked for DELL, and later Booze Allen which were contracted to administrate various systems within the NSA.

I don't envy your job, Denob 😉

Me either...hmmmmmph.
I have other stuff to do today.

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...the whole idea that the government has a secret plan to take over the world certainly belongs in the fringe area.

Where did this character assassination attempt come from??? This kind of vilifying misrepresentation bodes poorly for a topic leader.

And I’m not Jim Stone. You’ve been given his web site. Maybe you should take up your fears with him. And shame on posters who would seize on the discussion to stroke the topic leader.

Let's keep this discussion to the facts of trackability of electronics devices.

The facts remain as per the links posted i.e. authorities are tracking e-devices via e-signatures.
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Two guys wanted to see what would happen if they used a cell phone to "discuss bomb-making." They bought two prepaid cell phones. One phone was hidden under some leaf litter at a park site which was visible from an unsuspected location. The other phone and its owner traveled in and out of town for the next several days, leaving "bomb-making related" messages on the first phone. Sure enough, on the morning of the fourth day, local police arrived and were observed rummaging through the leaf litter where they eventually found and took the first phone. The second phone was then discarded.

BTW, cell phones do not need to be "on" to be tracked. Cell phones do not need a battery to be tracked. There is enough of an "electrical gradient" in the ambient air itself to permit not only its geo-location, but its activation, if so desired.

Yet they never tracked/captured the first phone. Well that's conveniently fuzzy.

This needs to go to the Fringe. See reason below.

Re: Conspiracy Theories et al...

Postby farmgal » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:19 pm
That being said, I also understand that there are members who do wish to discuss these, sometimes "out there" topics. So the other mods and I put our heads together and came up with a compromise. To open a section for these discussions, that will be hidden from bots, guests, and new members having less than 3 posts. To participate, you will have to join the FRINGE group, which can be done through your user control panel and does not require approval.

Those who do not join the group will not see this area. The same rules and code of conduct on the main forum also apply here and this area will be moderated just like the main forum. I hope this satisfies all concerns that have been raised

Send it wherever you like.

...Yet they never tracked/captured the first phone. Well that's conveniently fuzzy.

This needs to go to the Fringe. See reason below.

None of us know the extent to which the first phone was or was not tracked. And you're not about to receive from me a play-by-play of the places that first phone and its owner traveled to, or methods employed, to avoid being pinpointed, as such would be off-topic, at that's the point. As I had stated, it was a personal anecdote, with only certain select details provided which perfectly illustrated the vulnerability of electronics e.g. cell phones to trackability. If that doesn't relate to the value of "Breaking Free of your Electronic Toys," what does?

C'mon Ricky, tell us the secrets. Fuzzy anecdotes are great. You never need to prove them. Hmm calling bs on that.

Do a little background reading on this forum and why we have the Fringe.

I keep waiting for wild e to chime in with his "troll" post. 😆

.

Do a little background reading on this forum and why we have the Fringe.

I've read the entire forum. Yes, the whole thing.

Well, I don't know about your "Ricky," but I do know about my personal anecdote. Amazing, isn't it? ...the power of curiosity! Makes folks manifest all sorts of silly vain imaginations...

And now you would draw me back to the very thing you falsely accused me from the onset: “Fringe!” My turn to call B.S. on your sucker play.

Fuzzy anecdotes are great. You never need to prove them. Hmm calling bs on that.

You can dismiss my "fuzzy anecdote." Dismissing the authors of my WashPost, NYTimes, etc. links is a bit riskier...
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