Firearms

Actually I meant for preppers in general who were getting the bare minimum of firearms. They don't need a sniper rifle, they don't need to carry a lot of ammo if you catch my drift.
I'm a CGN'er too and know the whole .22 debate, how far you gonna chase that damn deer anyway? It's inhumane.
Us fools who think there is no such thing as too many guns are a different breed of animal who think all gun safes must be full(so they don't rattle or something). Then we get another safe!!
I'll admit I don't have a .223. The last bunch of .308 I bought came 500 in each spam can.

I didn't mean to imply that the .308 is only good as a sniper round (though it is). The point I was trying to make, is that, the qualities that make it desirable to snipers, are the same qualities that make it good to use for big game. As for the .22 and big game, I would never recommend using the .22 for big game. Many years ago I took my first elk with a .22 but I was very close and I'm a very good marksman. Since then, whenever I look back, I shake my head at what a foolish decision that shot was and I wouldn't even consider doing it again except in a case of extreme desperation. No, the .22 is best left to small game.
I agree that having dozens of guns is pointless unless it's a hobby or you plan to supply your friends too. As a prepper, if you're just starting to get to guns, I would go for a .22 first and a shotgun next. Besides being relatively inexpensive, they could very well be your two most important guns for getting meat if TSHTF. I know that there are those who will disagree and have their own opinions. If you're new to guns, do your research, listen to the opinions of experienced people but make your own decision as to what is best for you.

Guys in the Precision shoots (up to 1000 yards) in the Ontario Rifle Association who use 308 are hand loaded and plastic tipped light bullets. These guys are real good. Hope to one day be as good. My AIA Enfield will make it to 800 yards, but that's about the limit for factory ammo. They drop below super sonic at 800 yards. With hand loads and plastic tips, and rifles with 30" barrels, guys are getting 1000 yards.

Good discussion, but we kinda got way of track.
Nothing better to start a good discussion then the topic of guns...But I think we need to get back to basics for the average prepper..
And what they might need or want to have with them..
My guess is most people here don't have a lot; if any experience with fire arms...
I think a .22lr and a 9mm hand gun to bug out with or for self protection is pretty good....
Any thoughts on that......LOL.......Dum question.....

Good discussion, but we kinda got way of track.
Nothing better to start a good discussion then the topic of guns...But I think we need to get back to basics for the average prepper..
And what they might need or want to have with them..
My guess is most people here don't have a lot; if any experience with fire arms...
I think a .22lr and a 9mm hand gun to bug out with or for self protection is pretty good....
Any thoughts on that......LOL.......Dum question.....

Depends on what you think is going to happen. One's motto could be, prepare for the worse, hope for the best. Worse case is what I have portrayed in my novel, mass rioting, especially in cities, collapse of the ecomony. It will also depend on where you are. Cities could be ruled by armed gangs, in the country one could need firearms to protect crops. In first case, it would be the wild west in the cities. Won't matter much which firearm one has. In the country, the sight of a double barrel is enough to scare them off.

That said, one of the scanarios I paint in my novel is roving gangs leaving the cities looking for food. Then the type of firearm would be quite important, even "sniper" rifles.

So one should have an array of firearms to meet any possible issue they could end up in: pistol, carbine, medium range battle rifle, and long range bolt actions. That would cover the bases.

Of course, whenever I present such future scenarios I always qualify that no one can predict the future. All one can do it prepare in directions which would increase one's odds of surviving.

I agree with you traveller. Bush pilots up north are required to carry a .22 survival rifle in their crafts. As I've stated before, in dire need you can drop a deer with a .22 but just try to get a rabbit with a .308. Also, you can carry a whole whack of ammo. As for the handgun. At the range, we often have men bring in their wives/girlfriends/dates to shoot for the first time. The best way I've found to turn someone with no experience off of shooting is to give them a large caliber weapon to try. I never recommend anything larger than a 9 mil for first timers. So yeah, a 9 mil for those without a lot of experience. All in all though, now is the time to start getting your experience, not when TSHTF. Try to get firearms that are made for whatever job you may have to use them for.

I agree with you traveller. Bush pilots up north are required to carry a .22 survival rifle in their crafts. As I've stated before, in dire need you can drop a deer with a .22 but just try to get a rabbit with a .308. Also, you can carry a whole whack of ammo. As for the handgun. At the range, we often have men bring in their wives/girlfriends/dates to shoot for the first time. The best way I've found to turn someone with no experience off of shooting is to give them a large caliber weapon to try. I never recommend anything larger than a 9 mil for first timers. So yeah, a 9 mil for those without a lot of experience. All in all though, now is the time to start getting your experience, not when TSHTF. Try to get firearms that are made for whatever job you may have to use them for.

I've experienced the opposite. When I ask people new which they would like to try first, the M14 wins hands down. My son's wife is maybe 110lbs soaking wet. I offered her the M14 first, she was a bit scared, but my son edged her on. I got her kneeling, holding it tight. She was visibly shaking. First round and it was "Oh." Second round it was "Oh", after five she said "Can I do that again?" My nephew fired the M14 for his first time, but he wasn't holding it tight enough and the scope caught him in the forehead a bit. No blood. Hell at a competition shoot it got me in the forehead once, blood poured down while I was firing. She does give a good kick.

JRWakefeild, I commend your wife, she stuck to it and found out that it wasn't so bad. For the most part though, a heavy recoil is a good way to turn off a newbie. It's best to start small and work up (learn to walk before you run). I can't count the number of times men would bring in a female companion and the guy would get up there and start blasting away. I would coach the woman and by the time they left she was shooting 6 inch groups at ten meters while the guy was all over the paper. So much for his showing off. Most don't realize that you need to get good and then you can get fast. A little patience can go a long way toward making a new shooter into a good shooter.
Actually killing something with a gun can be a whole different matter. Taking a life,whether it's a rabbit, a deer or a man, can be a very traumatic experience the first time. I grew up on a farm where we butchered livestock for the table and hunted. As an adult I hunted for years, I don't any longer because I can buy my meat. When my son was ten years old, he killed a sparrow with his pellet gun. Because the bird wasn't bothering anyone, I had my son thinking for awhile that I was going to make him eat it. He has never killed senselessly since. Sorry, I'm getting off topic. There are those who just can't pull the trigger on a live target. Even though they may not be vegetarians they can't bring themselves to kill. If you try to convince or force them to kill just once, something in your relationship with that person could be lost. I believe that regardless of the situation you should only kill for requirement and not for sport. Even in a survival situation, too many of us put too much emphasis on meat and not enought on wild edibles. I'm guilty of the same mindset. Guns aren't always the answer. But they can sure come in handy at times. If you are going to carry a gun, whether it's a .22, M14 or anything in between, be comfortable with it.
And that's my rant.

Haven't we all seen people turned off by getting beaten up with a big gun. I they don't quit they learn bad habits. I love my M14 but without a muzzle brake it's a bit too much for a lot of shooting at one session. With the brake and a rubber pad in place of the steel plate it's a pussycat anyone could shoot all day long.
I have an argument for people who think hunting is cruel.
What do you think happens to animals when they get old or weaker than the rest? There's no retirement home. They spend their last hours living in terror, being chased down by some predator and then they're taken down and consumed while still alive.
I treat them far more humanely than the rest of nature will. I treat them with the respect they deserve while alive or dead.
I put it to you that I treat wild game more humanely than our society treats the animal you buy in the supermarket.
Do you think that chicken at Safeway had a good life?
I didn't hunt for a long time but with the quality (or rather lack of) commercial meat today I'm thinking it's better for our health.

Haven't we all seen people turned off by getting beaten up with a big gun. I they don't quit they learn bad habits. I love my M14 but without a muzzle brake it's a bit too much for a lot of shooting at one session. With the brake and a rubber pad in place of the steel plate it's a pussycat anyone could shoot all day long.
I have an argument for people who think hunting is cruel.
What do you think happens to animals when they get old or weaker than the rest? There's no retirement home. They spend their last hours living in terror, being chased down by some predator and then they're taken down and consumed while still alive.
I treat them far more humanely than the rest of nature will. I treat them with the respect they deserve while alive or dead.
I put it to you that I treat wild game more humanely than our society treats the animal you buy in the supermarket.
Do you think that chicken at Safeway had a good life?
I didn't hunt for a long time but with the quality (or rather lack of) commercial meat today I'm thinking it's better for our health.

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely nothing against hunting and if I need to feed loved ones I won't hesitate. Most hunters go for the meat but also like the trophy and that's fine too. Unfortunately, there are a few who would happily take the trophy and leave the rest to rot. Those I have a problem with. For the good ones (which I believe are in the vast majority), happy hunting. I'm also not into bungee jumping, drag racing or pro sports, but I don't turn up my nose at those who are. As they say, "To each their own.", I'm just not into hunting anymore.
You're right perfessor, hunting is generally more humane than what is often done to domestic animals.

I don't hunt, never tried it, it's against my world view. One of my sons wants to try it, knowing him he won't like it. But to each their own, yes. Only the crazies like to kill people, however, one has to do what one has to do if need be. If that comes our way I will not be a happy person, but I will know it will be my duty to protect my family.

.308 is agreeably probably the best all around hunting and long distance round available. From my buddies 700 rem 308 SPS we are getting consistent groups of 4 inch at 600yrds and 5.5 at 800 yards. We swapped the barrel out with a Krieger and stock with a McMillan and are getting accurate and consistent groupings of 7-8 inches at 1600 yards! Obviously hand loads, everything has been professionally gunsmithed, and in fairness we are both ex military and sniper trained but that aside what i am trying to say is that with a few skills, 800 yards with a factory rifle @ 5.5 " groupings is a dead animal or zombie all day long.

As for SKS, Awesome choice for a gun. Doesn't have as much stopping power as you would think though. FMJ rounds at 50 yards DO NOT penetrate 1/4" plates. But i buy 1400 rounds with stripper clips for 255 bucks so how can you go wrong!

.308 is agreeably probably the best all around hunting and long distance round available. From my buddies 700 rem 308 SPS we are getting consistent groups of 4 inch at 600yrds and 5.5 at 800 yards. We swapped the barrel out with a Krieger and stock with a McMillan and are getting accurate and consistent groupings of 7-8 inches at 1600 yards! Obviously hand loads, everything has been professionally gunsmithed, and in fairness we are both ex military and sniper trained but that aside what i am trying to say is that with a few skills, 800 yards with a factory rifle @ 5.5 " groupings is a dead animal or zombie all day long.

As for SKS, Awesome choice for a gun. Doesn't have as much stopping power as you would think though. FMJ rounds at 50 yards DO NOT penetrate 1/4" plates. But i buy 1400 rounds with stripper clips for 255 bucks so how can you go wrong!

And that was my point about the 7.62x39 round in any make or model cheap to shoot, as well as the 9mm; B.D.X. ROUNDS 27$ for 100 hundred half the prise of 50 new in the box...B.D.X.a reload company in Black dimond AB...

Little story about round penetration.
Shooting my M14 at about 75 yards. I had cut down an oak tree and had the logs cut into 16 inch lengths. Put a target on the end of the log. 150 gr FMJ passes right through the log and through one side of a cinder block behind. Spent rounds inside the block. Nasty stuff.

Hey Perfesser, I lived in Burlington while I was out there for University. I miss going to Hutch's for Ice cream in the summer. Good times.

Like most things around here Hutch's ain't what it used to be.

Like most things around here Hutch's ain't what it used to be.

That's to bad. Granted it was about 15 years ago i graduated.