FORUM

Search Amazon for Preparedness Supplies:
Notifications
Clear all

alternate backup winter heating

52 Posts
20 Users
0 Reactions
13 K Views
(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

After last winter, when they hydro went off in many parts of Ontario, many people were without any heat
for an extended period of time.

I am wondering about small portable kerosene heater or a portable propane heater ?

was thinking more along the lines of just being able to heat one room

Does anyone have any experience or advice on these units ? Are they safe indoors ?



   
Quote
(@helicopilot)
Member Moderator
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1487
 

I have a kero world one, bought just in case, along with several gallons of kerosene. They are designed for indoor use. Matter of factly, several countries use similar appliances for house heating. They are quite safe and other than some odour when lighting up and turning off, it's quite good. That would not be my favorite mean of heating a canadian house, but seems like a reasonable back up system for a few days.



   
ReplyQuote
(@oldtimegardener)
Estimable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 177
 

I heat with wood for the house.
But I keep and use a Little Buddy propane heater for my water shed....ya know pressure tank and all. That one is good for a smaller space.
I also keep some canning in that shed, so nice to not have frozen jars.

Oh there's a Big Buddy propane heaters too. Gives out more heat.
IIRC, it heats 400 sq. ft. Someone correct me if thats wrong.
Really depends on what size area you are heating.


A sense of humor is absolutely essential to survival.


   
ReplyQuote
(@livingpower)
Reputable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 258
 

I am eyeing an indoor propane heater for those times. I'm in London and somehow that ice storm in December missed us, but I know how narrowly and I do not want to get caught without a source of heat. When something like that happens, I want to stay in my own home and be relatively comfortable. I'm considering something like this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/forced-air-propane-heater-65000-btu-f340710/861318

or this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/15000-25000-btu-propane-convection-heater/924458

or this:

http://www.homedepot.ca/product/mh200cv-convection-propane-75000-200000-btu-hr/809899



   
ReplyQuote
(@denob)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2754
 

The first one on your list is a forced air heater, requiring 110v AC for operation. This would seem counter intuitive for a backup during a power outage.
The second one is intended as a construction heater...not for indoor use.
The third one is for really large spaces and uses a lot of gas...and again, intended for outdoor use.
I know that kerosene is getting pricy, but the heaters are more easily found for indoor use.
If you really want to go the propane route, I can see why...price and storage life...maybe look for a used camper heater that would vent outdoors.



   
ReplyQuote
(@perfesser)
Prominent Member
Joined: 14 years ago
Posts: 961
 

Propane and gas lanterns give off a lot of heat. Why not consider something that does double duty? Instead of looking for a heater, get a couple of lanterns.
At the cottage the bathroom is in an unheated space. If I run a propane light for half an hour it warms it up as well as any heater, then you can turn it right down to maintain some heat and light too.

How about triple duty?
These even have a cooking attachment so you get heat, light and a stove all rolled into one unit.
http://www.britelyt.com/
Maybe not, they're crazy expensive (better off getting a separate cooker that uses the same fuel) but my point is that a lamp puts out enough warmth to be called a heater.



   
ReplyQuote
(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

Keep the ideas going , and the safety issues need to be mentioned .

Sounds like the propane is not really the best choice for indoors .

BriteLyt , looks like there is a dealer maybe in Montreal ?



   
ReplyQuote
(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

The BriteLyt might be just for outdoor usage, anybody know for sure ? I looks like a revamped Coleman lantern with the mantles



   
ReplyQuote
(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

Add a CO alarm to the room that's being heated.
Most modern heaters have a low-O2 cutoff switch, but it's one more thing to fail and there's no reason to risk it when smoke alarms and CO alarms are cheap.
And a fire extinguisher should get moved to be between people and the heater. Just in case.

You can increase the efficiency of any of the heaters by:
- adding the stones or ceramic tiles and bricks intended for big fireplaces and wood stoves
- putting the heater under a shelf that prevents direct rise of heat and forces the warm air out a little
***Super important to put a shelf between the heater and the window if you choose something that needs vented; also super good if your heater is against a wall and below a curtain where heat wicks up and stays trapped between the two, and creates a polar vortex shoving cold air from the window down into the room
- using foil or old baking sheets or grill grids to absorb and in some cases reflect heat back toward the room; the absorbing metal creates a larger surface for heat to radiate out from
- small heaters can go in an emptied-out filing cabinet to accomplish all of those goals (absorption, increased radiation surface, shelf redirection)
- Keep a stainless steel or cast iron pot of water on/beside/partially in front of the heater (same theory - absorbs heat and water resists temp changes, so serves as a heat sink; plus, warm water is closer to boiling for noodle soup and tea than cold water)

A totally different direction from other suggestions would be to go for an arctic stove, either purchased or made. It's more of a long-term option.
- It can live on a dolly with the upright chimney in place
- L-shaped chimney leg pre-cut to fit between the upright chimney and the window
- Joints for the chimney
- Plywood and/or sheet metal to fit over an open window, with pre-cut hole and pre-installed edge insulation/sealant or the plan and ability to seal those edges

The bonus to an arctic stove is that it can take a wide variety of fuels, just like a regular wood stove or heater (homemade bricks or paper logs, sticks and wood, compact fireplace logs, charcoal with a raised shelf inside).
You can also stick smaller emergency-type fuel combos inside (crisco or oil lamps, candles) and the stove itself serves some of the dispersal and slow-radiation functions mentioned above. (A regular kitchen stove offers the same, but without venting outdoors so you have to watch burn times, and a regular stove is restricted to non-log-types.)
That versatility means in a super-extended event, you can still have heat if propane or kerosene runs out or becomes limited.

There are a ton of disadvantages to an arctic box stove as well:
- 2 weeks of fuel is typically much, much larger than 30-60 gallons of gas fuel in tanks/bottles/cans
- Bulkier device due to chimney needs
- requires setup (more than fetching a big bottle, attaching a hose, and pulling a small, fairly compact box out of a closet)
- Requires venting
- Homemade req's tools/skill and some investment; purchased cast iron tends to be some pricey
- Req's more frequent cleaning (much more frequent) than a purchased gas stove

Should funding be limited, there are quickie, inexpensive helps that can buy you time.
A Mylar blanket under a mattress or couch cushions, Mylar blanket above, and the little candle-flower pot heaters can be done now, while you're doing research, and all of them have other uses now, annually, or during an emergency of any level that includes outages.
The $10-25 investment in things that will get used can give you a little breathing room to decide which $125-$200-$600 heater and fuels you want to buy or $60-$100 DIY option you want to pursue.



   
ReplyQuote
cernunnos5
(@cernunnos5)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1230
 

Propane and gas lanterns give off a lot of heat. Why not consider something that does double duty? Instead of looking for a heater, get a couple of lanterns.
At the cottage the bathroom is in an unheated space. If I run a propane light for half an hour it warms it up as well as any heater, then you can turn it right down to maintain some heat and light too.
.

I just wanted to second this. I lived through an alberta winter in an un-insulated van, using this. It was still cold but not deadly cold. You will still need to occasionally let air in and carbon monoxide out.....but they throw better heat than many heaters out there. Propane would be best. Consider one of the colman hookups that allow it to work off a barbecue tank


I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.


   
ReplyQuote
(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

- Here is an arctic stove that Mrs Prep is talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oiiyJ4rjOw
They are unique in that they can burn so many fuels. I have seen a few of these brought up by Americans to my area yet never saw one in working mode before as they are their backups and put away. Impressive compact design.

- What these folks call a military tent heater https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Ef5MkdZbc is the most common backup stove in my area as wood is plentiful. These are used in pretty much every skid shack (for bush workers), ice shack for fishermen and even the big prospector tents. They last about 10 years with daily use and you can easily stack the chimney pipes and such inside for that rainy day.

Why myself and many I know have removed their wood stoves is:

1. that we got tired of handling the wood 5 times to get it from the bush to the stove.

2. House insurance took away more of the attraction as many homes in my area have burned down due to chimney fires.(I'll get to that)

3. We tire of the mess it makes in the yard when bucking up tree length wood into stove length and from splitting too. You can do some of this in the bush instead but then it requires even more effort to move many smaller pieces instead of bigger ones.

4. Pellet stoves are so much more efficient and we don't have to feed them as often. Also ash removal is far less messy too 😆

5. a bag of pellets here is $5-$6.00 each and you carry it 2 times only and it lasts 24 hours while heating 1000 to 1200 sq ft daily. Mine can now double as a backup stove too with my converted inverter I made.

6. pellet stoves draw fresh air from the outside so no risk of oxygen starvation.

7. You can mount a pellet stove 1" away from any wall legally and safely and they look nice too. http://www.harmanstoves.com/browse/stoves/pellet-stoves.aspx #

8. pellet stoves have come down in price but you can save more by buying a used one too if your patient enough.

Now I find that I can easily stockpile 3 times the amount of energy in the same space I had for firewood. I still get the same wood smell in my home that I am used to as I buy softwood pellets instead of hardwood pellets. The bad thing is that I can't heat a kettle of water on top as the outer skin doesn't even get hot enough to burn you(their that efficient). I no longer have as many piles of wood surrounding my property (still some old wroughting piles left) and so mowing is easier too.

This pellet stove easily heats what it claims, (1000 sq ft). I have it in a walkout basement of a 2200 sqft bungalow home. The main source of heat is fuel oil, which last purchased at $1.24 liter is a very expensive source these days. The pellet stove and 2 ceramic 1500 watt heaters are far cheaper and heat the house all winter in even 40 below.



   
ReplyQuote
cernunnos5
(@cernunnos5)
Noble Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 1230
 

Also, don't discount the amount of heat simple candles throw. Never pass up a cheap source of candles. Just remember fire safety and NEVER put a candle on a wood surface. You would be amazed the amount of cabins, houses and homeless shacks that go up because of a candle melted onto a wood surface.


I have a Tactical Harness and I have a Tool Belt. The Tool Belt is more Useful.


   
ReplyQuote
(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

Knuckle, I have considered the pellet stove as a third heating source.

However, don't they require electricity to run the auger to drop pellets ?
I am wondering what you do in a power outage if you have a pellet stove .

Also, Canadian tire has some kerosene heaters on sale this week..
So I will be buying one as a backup ,but would also like to learn more about pellet stoves
in a power outage



   
ReplyQuote
peppercorn
(@peppercorn)
Noble Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 2117
 

Propane..it punches outside its weight class so to speak... I am talking short term heating requirements, and in the manner others have suggested in latern form as you get double duty.. and finer control. Light and heat..its a home run hit. Have the adapter and hose for hooking up to a 20 pounder. some have a flat top so you can boil water or cook (a bit), so tripple duty!!
Have a few spare mantels on hand.
Up until the late 80', maybe into 90's my one uncle had a hundered pounder out side his house. He hooked up a regulator, ran copper pipe down under the eaves the length of the house with a branch going of into each room, lv, kit, bedrooms, etc. Where it came threw the wall a ball valve was added on the inside. Then a short piece of soft copper pipe that he flared the end of, and the mantel was tied to..if I remember right he just coiled a piece of fine mesh window screen that hung on the pipe but around the mantel, that was to stop a fly or wasp from flying into the mantel and breaking it. He must have used that system for 30 years, raising 4 kids in the house no problem, then I think compact floreciences came out and he switched to that, but I suspect he switched more because 100 pounders of propane get heavier as time goes by.

Britelyt..no thanks...Want one? you can have mine, im done with it.good advertising, and a great product if you dont compare it to anything else, or have anything else. finiky, never lasts as long as they say, always have to pump the stupid thing up, poor regulation...try a Aladdin Lamp instead, way cheaper, more light and heat...and no pumping, longer burn time,though as with other kerosene burners...see below

Kerosene...no thanks, it was good at one time...now with all the sulfur in it...no way, leaves me choking, if it doesnt bother you chances are it will someone else in the house.


Give a man a gun, and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank, and he can rob the world.


   
ReplyQuote
(@denob)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 2754
 

Let's take a look at a simple pellet stove from a popular manufacturer...Drolet....the Eco 45.
Designed to heat from 500 to 2000 sq.ft.
Power requirements are 2.5 amp running 3.5 amp ingnition cycle.
Using the lower running amp rating at 120v, we calculate a wattage rating of 300 watts.
I assume you will want to run it 24 hours a day, so we have 7200 Whrs per day.
Figuring about 4 peak sun hours per day, an online system size calculator recommends a 180 watt solar system.
Remembering that I used the running amps only, it will need to be a bit bigger.
A local retailer of solar systems has a 230 watt kit (so you can have some breathing room and a few lights) for $1299.00.
The kit is pretty complete and includes the following...

1- Solar Panel 230W 24VDC BLD Solar, cUL
1- 20A MPPT Tracer charge controller that will boost your power input by 15-30% and it can aso convert 24VDC to 12VDC
1- Power Bright inverter 1100W 12VDC/110VAC
2- 6V Crown deep-cycle batteries with a capacity of 235Ah@20h for each
1- Racking system 30-60 degrees to install up to 2 panels
1- Midnite Box and breakers Midnite 20A
1- Fuse block 125A
2- Surge suppressor for DC and AC
12- Feet of power cable with connectors 1/0AWG
40- 2 * 20Ft (red and black) of PV cable 10AWG
1- Single MC4 connector

Personally, I'll stick to my wood stove. I heat with wood all winter, so I am used to the negligible labor involved with hauling loads of wood. I usually use about a half cord per week, and spend about a half hour bringing it from the wood shed to the mud room.
Not to mention that if SHTF for extended times...where are you going to buy your pellets?



   
ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 4
Share: