Dead bodies

but dead body's will help any garden grow! just need a good shovel, and a few months . . . 😮

Dead bodies or human waste should never be used to fertilize any garden that you will be eating from. If you recall the mad cow disease that caused such an uproar a few years ago, you'll understand why. At one time, unused scraps from beef processing plants were further processed and added to cattle feed. The "recycled" beef scraps are what caused ' mad cow'. The same process occurs if human remains or human waste is used to fertilize a food garden. Unless you want yourself or your children to eventually end up wandering around bug eyed and drooling snot, you'll keep the bodies and the waste well away from your garden.

but dead body's will help any garden grow! just need a good shovel, and a few months . . . 😮

Dead bodies or human waste should never be used to fertilize any garden that you will be eating from. If you recall the mad cow disease that caused such an uproar a few years ago, you'll understand why. At one time, unused scraps from beef processing plants were further processed and added to cattle feed. The "recycled" beef scraps are what caused ' mad cow'. The same process occurs if human remains or human waste is used to fertilize a food garden. Unless you want yourself or your children to eventually end up wandering around bug eyed and drooling snot, you'll keep the bodies and the waste well away from your garden.

you are only partly right, the only worry with this is, the person and or cows have to be infected with the prion before they die. while there is only one way to tell 100% if they are infected (autopsy) the chances of having a body barried in the garden is incredible rare.

the rate for infection was 1 per 100,000 population.

adding to that, docs don't test for it that often (they have special gov paper work, and spinal taps to do). we have one doc that ends up seeing everyone with neuro symptoms, and he's filled out the paper work for 7 or so. oddly enough, when i was in school i took care of a CJD pt, but his roommate was suspected of being CJD too, and a year before we had a unconfirmed case in the unit down the hall, i also assisted with one of the spinal taps. 3 cases in a population of 20K? that happen to be admitted to rooms within 300 feet of each other? now that's crazy. . .

brain tissues/spinal cord fluid is highly contagious, but if you have a stomach scope done, that scope can NOT be sterilized and it must be discarded. (you need heat and chemicals, but not everything can be heated) because using that scope after being used on someone with CJD can (possibly) transmit it.
they say it better (Prions, the infectious agent of CJD, may not be inactivated by means of routine surgical instrument sterilization procedures. The World Health Organization and the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommend that instrumentation used in such cases be immediately destroyed after use; short of destruction, it is recommended that heat and chemical decontamination be used in combination to process instruments that come in contact with high-infective tissues. No cases of iatrogenic transmission of CJD have been reported subsequent to the adoption of current sterilization procedures, or since 1976.[18][19][20] Copper–hydrogen peroxide has been suggested as an alternative to the current recommendation of sodium hydroxide or sodium hypochlorite.[21] Thermal depolymerization also destroys prions in infected organic and inorganic matter, since the process chemically attacks protein at the molecular level.)

Ten to 15 percent of CJD cases are inherited. (CDC) (didn't know this part)

back to the garden issue, the prions would be in the soil, not in the plants, if there was a concern of contamination, bury everything deeper. (after all a contaminated body should be buried, maybe not in the garden) but the risk of ingesting a prion is far greater in eating a cow, followed by infected deer or elk, then having a body buried in the garden.

as for the use of human waste in the garden, it needs to be composted like most other manures, but it's very safe to use in the garden. http://www.amazon.com/The-Humanure-Handbook-Composting-Manure/dp/0964425890

Don't forget about the millions of people with medical conditions that could not survive without modern technology. It's estimated that in the us millions of people would die in the first week from lack of immediate medical attention for things like severe diabetes, life support, ect if something like an EMP strike were to happen. The government will take about 72 hours to have every town and road locked up and any citizen who stayed behind in some sort of "concentration camp" for lac of a better word and will be busy burning bodies for month's. My advice is if at all possible in a widespread crisis, Never go Back to Town!

It would also hit 3rd world countries, now heavily dependant on foreign aid for food and other items they would also get a double hit with disease following mass deaths from starvation. No food situations usually mean zero medical aid as well.

Also amongst the first to go would be those foreign refugee camps already congested with thousands - they have no where to go - from this, I expect a domino effect to occur. This would overwhelm the infrastructure of already financially stressed countries that have these camps within their borders.

It would also hit 3rd world countries, now heavily dependant on foreign aid for food and other items they would also get a double hit with disease following mass deaths from starvation. No food situations usually mean zero medical aid as well.

Also amongst the first to go would be those foreign refugee camps already congested with thousands - they have no where to go - from this, I expect a domino effect to occur. This would overwhelm the infrastructure of already financially stressed countries that have these camps within their borders.

foreign refugee camps?
what about the domestic refugee camps? this is the very point why i believe that bugging out is the very last option, and it should be done with a big plan, gear in tow, a place to go, and lots of stuff on the other end. . . because with out all those things, you are a refugee!

We put ours up in motels and Island resorts ATM - thats why we get so many boats full of them coming here.
(Thinking of going of shore and re-enter ileagally myself - would be better off).

Humanure is used quite extensively in Asia. Don't be surprised if the rice your buying from China and possibly other Asian nations isn't fertilized during growth by human crap.

I wonder if in most places, collecting the dead and burning them wouldn't be an option? IIRC that was what happened historically was it not?

Runs With Scissors

I think that there are three choices if there are mass casualties in a SHTF situation. Mass graves are the most common approach but in a severe SHTF situation we might not have the equipment or resources to do this. Cremation is an option it has been used many times in the past. Cremation maybe a too polite term for what is envisaged, mass funeral pyres would be closer. The last option is to leave them in situ and allow natural decomposition and carrion to do its work. The last option shows no dignity and it will cause the rapid spread of disease and contaminate water sources.

As for the rice I am sure you are right.

Humanure is used quite extensively in Asia. Don't be surprised if the rice your buying from China and possibly other Asian nations isn't fertilized during growth by human crap.

I wonder if in most places, collecting the dead and burning them wouldn't be an option? IIRC that was what happened historically was it not?

Runs With Scissors

I think the 'Politically correct term for human crap over there is - "Night Soil".
A very robust flavour is added by this method - I can smell it when cooking. 🙂

I think that there are three choices if there are mass casualties in a SHTF situation. Mass graves are the most common approach but in a severe SHTF situation we might not have the equipment or resources to do this. Cremation is an option it has been used many times in the past. Cremation maybe a too polite term for what is envisaged, mass funeral pyres would be closer. The last option is to leave them in situ and allow natural decomposition and carrion to do its work. The last option shows no dignity and it will cause the rapid spread of disease and contaminate water sources.

Thats a lot of work - your assuming there is the equipment and fuel and man-power available for this. I think this would be attempted in the onset - but realistically - you need a lot of timber or fuel to burn masses of bodies. Thats A real lot of work by hand with out mechanical assistance.
I think the option will turn quickly to 'Let Nature Take It's Course'.

You're right FNQ'er, Let's think back to the Haitian earthquake. For weeks there were piles of dead bodies on the street stinking up the place and spreading Cholera through the refugee camps. They government "eventually" began just burning the massive piles. But not in time to stop any damage, and obviously none of the people were equipped to deal with it or they would have.

Well if mass dying happens in the Canadian winter we will have time before decomposition. Summer is the worry. Burning is better than digging IMO but whatever the method it must be done quickly. Depends on how many and how fast.

Depending on where in Canada you are looking at the weather cycles and temperature fluctuations will probably result in a freeze / thaw cycle of the dead. To add on top of that the majority of dead will most likely be in the cities. Those in the countrysidew ill naturally decompose and / or be scavenged by wild animals. Sheer numbers in most scenarios will make it virtually impossible to impliment and large scale collection and disposal. Further, if you begin large burns in urban areas, you risk setting fire to the whole town or city. Sanitation or the lack of will be the major contributor to sickness and further death. Contamination of the water supply is the biggest concern. The majority of bodies will be indoors not in the streets. People who are sick, weak or injured will seek protected shelter. It is what all animals do. I believe in the short term there will not be the resources; physical OR mental to deal with disposal of the dead. Best to address your immediate area only... your house or your immediate water supply. The rest won't harm you in any way.

Looking at these figures below and largely dependant on the critical event taking place - I don't think I'd want to stay in a major city or large regional populated centre any where in your neck of the woods. Winter or no winter.

You will have a certain % of the population who will not be affected if it's viral.
You will get the 'Big Frog In Little Puddle Syndrome' and territorial fights for areas as things deteriorate. There will always be 'That Group' trying to take advantage of weaker groups or individuals.

(Thankfully Australia is so sparsely populated that you can just disappear if you want to).

Personally - I would get out of those populated areas over your way at the first op.

I think body disposal and associated risks of 'Post Mass Extermination' will be a huge problem for any survivors.

2011 ranking for urban pop fig canada
1 Toronto, Ontario 5,132,794
2 Montreal, Quebec 3,407,963
3 Vancouver, British Columbia 2,135,201
4 Calgary, Alberta 1,095,404
5 Edmonton, Alberta 960,015
6 Ottawa–Gatineau, Ontario/Quebec 933,596
7 Quebec City, Quebec 696,946
8 Winnipeg, Manitoba 671,551
9 Hamilton, Ontario 670,580
10 Kitchener, Ontario 444,681

These figures are from; List of the 100 largest population centres in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_population_centres_in_Canada