Nice list.

I don't know what CAA is.

They make attachments you can hook up to your ATV, tractor or truck and plow for yourself - and maybe make spare change doing it for the 'hood.

Unless you're looking at jumping in with a LOT of animals (which is a mistake all on its own, especially if you're still holding down a job) it's not hard to dispatch and dress animals.

- House and property insurance (unless you're buying everything outright)
- Unless you're running off the propare and wood entirely, electricty
- Sewage or septic (either fees or in some states there are separate fees and taxes for septic because they'd rather you be attached)
- Small tractor and attachments (mower-sized tractor may work) if you plan to grow any feed at all
- Tiller/hand tools for garden (if you're growing)

- Fencing if you want sheep or goats, and sometimes pigs are special on fencing, but sheep are the most ridiculous
- Fencing if you want chickens or ducks that will not be moved entirely inside, because predators are crazy, especially raccoons

- Heat lamps if you're rearing chicks, ducklings, keets or poults (I would not start with turkeys and consider them a money suck compared to guineas and ducks, but I just don't like chickens - Martha Stewart I'm not and my mother's were never that chill).

-In some cases and some places heat lamps and sunlight lamps to increase the laying cycle and warmth for the bird coops.

- If you're starting the farming process or garden, you're likely to need soil amendments and whatever methods you've decided you like best for weeds and insects, and it's likely to need irrigation

- You will want about twice as many buckets as you think you do and half again the amount of water hose, chain for dragging posts out and moving trees and small buildings, and something that can maneuver through mud. You are really going to want extra fence posts and some extra fencing, because you really will sometimes be ready to pull your hair out with certain types of stock - and deer. Same with hammers, and a solid set of tools if you don't have them, including a couple multi-purpose handheld construction saws. A reciprocating "saws-all" and a GOOD battery operated drill with an electric backup will do a lot of chores for you at efficient speed.

If you're doing milk, there are sometimes a ton of add-ons. Goats will happily eat things cattle won't, but it requires extra fencing and you have to protect fruit trees and sometimes even berry brambles that you love. Goats will climb low-branching trees for fun and break them and use them to get over fences, too, just for giggles, even when they're not munching. And they can be rough on clothes/clotheslines. But they're cute. They make a hybrid of a pygmy and a standard for almost all breeds, called minis or sometimes dwarfs. They're 2/3 to 3/4 the size, eat 1/2 as much in some cases, and still put out decent amounts of milk. They're a lot easier to handle when they're unhappy with you than full-sized. If you're doing goats, you may (probably will) want to keep a mature breeding buck separate. His scents can make for strong milk. It works, because you can dump kids in with him for weaning and then pull the girls back to live with their dams before breeding age and leave the males to mature to meat age with him.

I'm not sure where you are (no Canada flag flying) but in the U.S. you won't need certification to sell excess fruit and vegetables at a flea market or trade day in most states - MOST.

You know how owning a house and vehicle, some weeks/months/years it seems like all you do is replace things and fix things and jerry rig things? That's going to be the case with every building, drainage, and fence sometimes. I would not buy and pack a farm to capacity with little experience. I would start with a few birds, a manageable garden, some food plots, add a pair of larger stock, add a few more. If you already have experience, ignore that little nugget.

Depending on how much activity you plan at the market, don't forget about the cost of managing and administrating HST. It is probably the most unpleasant part of being self employed - Your income taxes are going to get much more complicated as well. You will have lots of deductions and may not show a profit for some time however that won't necessarily keep Revenue Canada from auditing your GST or asking many questions. If you are successful, add the cost of a CPA to your yearly expenses - 5K - 10K
Other costs associated with operating a small business include increased banking costs, credit card and interac fees, business licenses in one or more areas depending on how many markets you operate in, common area costs in the market, advertising, and payroll expenses if you intend to have a life outside of your business.
The above costs and expenses are not written to discourage you. Self employment can be very satisfying and rewarding. It is just good to go into any venture with your eyes open. It's worth wile to pursue your dreams.

Antsy

Good move , Oldschool!, and as usual Prepswithpets' excellent practicality...

Definitely a decent small tractor 4wd category 1, with loader/bucket if you can afford it ,
and a 5' snowblower attachment for the driveway and barn-path.
Diesel storage tank or a dozen portables, cycling their use.Also a dozen for gasoline.
A couple lengths of chain/hooks, and/or hd nylon tow rope/hooks.
( Buy 3pt.hitch attachments on sale as needed, in future. This will save countless hours of physical labor which you can use otherwise. It's justifiable for our (belated) head start and until fuel becomes unavailable)
1-2 Plastic 1000-litre totes for anticipated water storage, one for rainwater/laundry/garden use.
Material for elevating those totes stabley for gravity feed, and covering the plastic from longterm UV damage.(4-pole shed with roof/walls, tote support...useable storage underneath)
More simple sheds and/or lean-to's on barn for tractor shelter, wood storage, wheelbarrows, barrels.
Mini greenhouse attached to house for seedling starts and auxillary heat source.
Stockpile same-size wood pallets to make instant, recyclable circular corrals for some livestock . (just stand up on welldrained ground and wire together top and bottom, at edges, with a T-bar post at every 4th joint, or as needed .
Rat traps, mousetraps, isolated from cats.
Snowshoes.
Farm trailer and/or road trailer , hitch for vehicle/tractor
Misc. Rope on sale.
Secondary well source for hand pump and/or mini solar submersible if power outage.
Rodent-proof wire-cloth cages and/or foodgrade barrels for food and seed stock.

More later,...villager

Thank you for all of the ideas. A few of the things that I had not thought of:
-extra pails
-hoses
-ropes
-chain
-accounting - nasty thing that it 🙂
-mouse traps
-hand pump

The idea is to have "everything ready" for the move....at least all the bigger stuff ready. I have found out over the years that there always seems to be a 100 things I don't think about. The place I am looking at has a very large barn on 100 acres, a pond with a creek. I will build the house, dig/build all the gardens, critter pens, extra water storage tanks before moving in. There is electricity & running water already hooked up to the barn. Only about 1/3 of the land is cleared. A truck is one of those "bigger" things but I hadn't thought about a winch. I figure it will take me about a year before I will be moving in...that is if I get the place that I am looking at.

I have found out over the years that there always seems to be a 100 things I don't think about.

Life is like that. Life with livestock is like that and Mr. Murphy x2. It's good that you can look forward, plan as much as possible, and accept that it happens anyway. It's the ones who expect only sun and roses and lambs dancing with bunnies where they belong who get ulcers.

The place I am looking at ... 100 acres, ... Only about 1/3 of the land is cleared.

If it's older growth and you want more cleared, you might want to contact a lumber or pulp company to do an assessment. The big, big guys won't be interested, but some of the smaller companies might be able to clear however much you want either trade-off (they can cut just enough to be worth their while) or for a small profit.

If you don't own one, you might look into a chipper shredder. You can make your own mulch with some of the cover, if interested, and some trees and mulch sizes are appropriate for the bird sheds and cloven-hoof stock (we had mad problems with ponies on three different types of mulch mid-layer stall cover, even with good straw over it).

Hi oldschool,

What kind of projects/farming/homesteading are you looking to get into? It would be helpful if we know a bit about your plans before making suggestions. We farm/homestead in southwestern Ontario. I find multipurpose items and hand tools to be the biggest things we use. Also, don't go for a big expense if you can hire or barter with a neighbour who has an item, knowledge and time to help you out (just make sure you help them out in return). Farmers stick together and are willing to help.

The biggest thing you need is experience. If you've got some you know what you're getting into. If you don't, volunteer at a place which is doing what you want to do and get the experience you need.

Also, nothing in farming is perfect. Don't try to make it perfect, just make it work. And remember.... in a two year period you'll probably tear it down and rebuild it. (that's from experience!).

I like videos and books from Joel Salatin. He's a sustainable livestock farmer from Virginia. You can find videos on You Tube from him.

Good luck with your venture.

Hi oldschool,
What kind of projects/farming/homesteading are you looking to get into? It would be helpful if we know a bit about your plans before making suggestions. We farm/homestead in southwestern Ontario. I find multipurpose items and hand tools to be the biggest things we use. Also, don't go for a big expense if you can hire or barter with a neighbour who has an item, knowledge and time to help you out (just make sure you help them out in return). Farmers stick together and are willing to help.
The biggest thing you need is experience. If you've got some you know what you're getting into. If you don't, volunteer at a place which is doing what you want to do and get the experience you need. Also, nothing in farming is perfect. Don't try to make it perfect, just make it work. And remember.... in a two year period you'll probably tear it down and rebuild it. (that's from experience!). I like videos and books from Joel Salatin. He's a sustainable livestock farmer from Virginia. You can find videos on You Tube from him. Good luck with your venture.

Hello Frugal.
I come from a family of farmers so know a bit about a lot of things but not a lot on everything. My grandfather did fruits, veggies, and maple syrup after he got too sick to look after the critters, my aunt is a dairy farmer, a cousin a pig farmer, a second cousin a sheep farmer. I have asked a woman that I know if I can come help out on her farmer for experience working with alpacas. I am still thinking about having deer & Emu. There are 2 farms close to me that have deer & emu.

I will never tear something down and rebuild it...its not allowed 😆 I was raised "if you are going to do something it had dam well better be perfect". It takes me twice as long as a "normal" person to get something done because of that thinking. I always ask myself things like; if it works today will it work in 5 years if the number of my critters changes.

It is those "little" things that being in the city, or cause a family member already had the item that I would not think about.

thanks
oldschool

Wow, sounds like you've got experience and a great safety net of people to depend upon. Good for you.

Wow, sounds like you've got experience and a great safety net of people to depend upon. Good for you.

Advice yes but not with the physical help - my aunt is 82, my cousin with the pigs is battling cancer 🙁

I have been trying to figure out how much money I will need the first year on the farm (yes it won't be awhile but for some reason I like being prepared )

The idea is a list for those "smaller" expenses that I may not think of. Here are a few things that I have come up with for planning the budget:

-property taxes
-animal feed/hay
-car insurance
-car repair/maintenance
-gas for the car/truck
-CAA
-possible well running dry & having to pay for water
-plowing of snow if I had to go some place
-the cost of a stall at a market or table at a craft show
-food certification course (I don't know if that is a yearly expense yet)
-vet bills
-butcher (not trying that my first year)
-cords of wood
-electric bill
-internet
-propane

Please let me know what I am missing. Also if you have any idea on the costs of this kind of stuff I would greatly appreciate it.

hey oldschool...hope your well... ;O)

I'll give this a go and tell you exactly what I pay...

-property taxes
.....cheap if you farm the land, make more than $7,000 per annum in sales or get someone else to farm for you. my place is valued at well over $1,000,000 and my city taxes are just over $3,000 per annum
-animal feed/hay
.....make friends with other farmers, it's free
-car insurance
.....I would imagine your talking about 'farm insurance'....it is cheaper, but not much, maybe 10%
-car repair/maintenance
.....again, make friends with other farmers....especially if your driving diesel, they can fix pretty much anything
-gas for the car/truck
.....$6,500,000 a year at current gas prices
-CAA
.....$120 a year, no cheaper
-possible well running dry & having to pay for water
.....shouldn't run dry, however the past two months Ive not been able to get at mine because it so bloody cold....$69.00 a load
-plowing of snow if I had to go some place
.....friends with farmers!!!...I have a 1,000 ft drive way and it takes my neighbour 10 minutes with his 150hp tractor...my 45hp and snowblower takes well over 2 hours. if you want your own, buy the snowblower in summer...its a lot cheaper
-the cost of a stall at a market or table at a craft show
.....no idea, all relative because its a deductible against the $7,000 your going to show Guelph you made
-vet bills
.....expensive for domestic animals, reasonable for farm animals
-butcher (not trying that my first year)
.....free usually....again I know two licenced butchers, and they just keep a portion of whatever they butcher as payment
-cords of wood
.....free if your willing to do the work, have two tree service companies that drop off. they just need somewhere to get rid of it
-electric bill
.....can't comment. I have two rental apartments on the farm as well.....my hydro bill is close to $1,500 for this period so far, but it has been cold
-internet
.....source cable .....$65.00
-propane
.....lock them into a price in sept....it's good for three months, then get a delivery before the end of the three month lock in.....just over $400 to fill my tank in January. neighbour took a delivery the very next day, same company, $1,700...told him there was a propane shortage.

thank you

I believe making friends with the local farmers will be high on my list once I get a place 🙂

thank you

I believe making friends with the local farmers will be high on my list once I get a place 🙂

you still in Hamilton? and where are you looking?

I don't think there's enough information. For example, you didn't mention how large the property is (which would determine if you even need to buy a tractor and implements), if there's an existing building(s) or whether or not you'll build when you get there.

I can't imagine how 'friendly' you'd have to be with the neighbour farmer to get free feed. I do know that you'd get a hell of a better deal from them from what you'd get at the feed stores - although the guy I deal with is pretty fair. For example, 40 pound hay bales went for $8 a bale where I am. I got mine for $4.50 a bale from a neighbour who had extra.
Friendly with the neighbour with a tractor is also good advice. If you don't NEED a tractor, don't buy one. I'll admit that they are nice to have, and every man wants one (I have 2, a gas and a diesel and a diesel tracked bobcat mini-excavator) but if you don't spend the majority of your day on one, then it's probably better to make an arrangement with the neighbour...or his kid. Everyone forgets that sometimes the next door teenage kid needs some money too, and I guarantee that he (and she even) can use the tractor and implements in many cases. In fact, we originally got hay from the neighbour up the road. When he's son got married, the son took over haying for the father. Now I buy hay off the son who delivers it with his young wife and the three of us usually spend an afternoon stacking it.

I wouldn't worry about farm insurance (aside from the stuff you get for the house and the barns and all that). Unless your staking your livelihood on a single crop (corn, wheat, etc), in which case it's not a bad idea in case of a bad year. What's that old saying though, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket?"

Vet bills can be pretty expensive. I guess it depends on where you are. Our vet has to drive for about an hour to get to us and the clock starts as soon as he turns the car key, so in many cases we call him only if we REALLY have to. We had him out last year to help us out with a lamb birth that we couldn't work out...and it cost us $450.
The more you work with animals, the less likely you'll be needing that vet. You learn to deal and take care of a lot of things on your own to be honest.

If for example you were building your own buildings, then you have so many options open. You can really reduce the energy bills by building the house with lots of south faced windows for passive heating in winter. You can build a large root cellar on the north side of the house and reduce the need for having several freezers and fridges. Same can be said with animal buildings. Chicken coops (if you use one, there's other ways besides them) build them with south facing windows for passive heat and reduce the need for the heat lamp to be on as much. Look to the old fashioned housing setups. There's gold nuggets of wisdom in there.

With propane, that's how we heat our farmhouse. We've had a similar experience as Carbon04 said. We've had to have a delivery made, and the price was 4x what we are used to. Shortage they say.
We have a wood stove in the basement, but the chimney is suspect so I haven't gotten around to figuring it out yet. I don't think I'd have enough wood in our lot to keep things going anyhow. Our woodlot is about 3 acres. Sounds like a lot, but it's older bigger trees (good for money) and wet ground...so getting the wood out would be a friggin' nightmare. It's been poorly managed for years, and I've plans to get it managed so there's always the possibility of it meeting needs. But if I had to rely on it right now, it would be tough. Besides, how many others would be going after wood as well? Not just for heat, but for building material? That's a concern for an extended down situation, but I think worth considering in a long term plan.

These are some things on the top of my head. It's a good thing to think about covering the costs, but in the end remember this...as some others say, don't let yourself be paralyzed with thinking. You can farm without it all looking super-pretty, good enough is good enough at first. You HAVE to learn by doing (hehe, 4-H motto there). I can relate, I over analyzed for a good 6 years. Last year I said F' it, I'm just gonna have a go. I'm so glad I did. I'm not an expert. I can't grow a pepper to save my life. My pigs one day escaped and ran rampant for a time after they realized that they didn't have to respect the bad fencing my 11 year old daughter and I put up. The pig hut was little more then a pile of stuff...but they liked it and it worked. I find myself doing stuff by hand moreso then using the tractors I have, because it's either just takes longer to go get the thing then it is to just dig in. Just do it. Learn the hard way. It'll be tough at first, but then it isn't. I'm turning 41 this year, so I'm not talking just about bulling through. I'm running out of the energy to just bull through.

Good luck and happy times!

-property taxes - just over 3000 a year
-animal feed/hay
I buy local from a farmer, this saves me about 50 percent in costs over the feed store prices- my 80 pound bags range from 9 to 12 dollars each. I get a good deal locally on hay, but the price is quite high over the last two years, used to be able get a 800 pound round bale for 30, now its 50 each, I have gotten straw as cheap as 30 per 800 pounds and depending on the year and supply as high as 80 per 800 pounds, if I bought them in small square 65 pound bales, my overall costs would go up, and deliver fee's are high, thankfully that is included in the prices lists.
-car insurance- Cheap if you get farm, but it still depends on the cost of your vehicle, also need critter insurance and building insurance, figure a couple thousand a year depending on your land and buildings etc
-car repair/maintenance- same as in town, several hundred to a thousand per year.
-gas for the car/truck- Same as in town, unlike out west, I am unaware of there being farm gas in Ontario, no purple farm gas here.
-CAA- 130 per year is what it costs me in my area
-possible well running dry & having to pay for water- A well fill in my area will cost you 200 at this time, and if you tell them a well, they will only bring half a tank, even though they charge you full price for the whole truck, so make sure you pick up a large on sale pool, so you can get the other half of the tank of water you pay for!
-plowing of snow if I had to go some place- If you can't shovel it out, all three local folks that will do it around here by tractor, charge 50 for it.
-the cost of a stall at a market or table at a craft show-Depends on the town, the volume and how wanted the stall is, can be as cheap as 20 to 50 or more
-food certification course (I don't know if that is a yearly expense yet)- Don't know, the few friends that have this, had to build totally approved working kitchens
-vet bills- Costly, you can't even get the vet to come out and come to the farm for under a hundred, you will be charged though the nose, example, I have been charged 40 dollars for a stripe of antibodics that cost me 2 dollars each stripe when I ordered a box of them myself. Depending on what it is now, there are rules in place, that they had to do this or that before they can do the next, and each thing will up that bill! But on the flip side, my county runs a good program on basic shots available once a year, and your farm vet will do your regular vaccines for your cats/dogs at a much reduced price compared to the town "pet" vet. The more you can do yourself the better!
-butcher (not trying that my first year)- Depends on the animal, locally, you are looking at 5 to 8 per, chickens are the cheapest, ducks, geese or turkeys all go for more, I pay per head butcher cost for the lambs (35), pigs (45) Beef (65) and then you pay a cut and wrap at 50 cents per pound, and you pay more for sausage, bacon, ham etc, you pay more for a European cut, over a tradional Canadian cut, you can also be charged more per if you want longer hang times, don't forget your hauling fee's, My last load of lambs was 100, my last haul of three pigs was 120 and my cow was 60 for the haul. You can haul your own smaller critters if done in small enough numbers. One of the number one skills I would learn in your first year, is learn to butcher! for your own meat uses. Only pay hauling, kill and butcher costs if you are going to do farmgate sales, (don't forget to add in the costs of the required tags and the one time purchase of equipment needed to do so)
-cords of wood- Locally, 80 to 120 depending on kind, how done it is, if its for a inside wood stove vs big logs for the outdoor wood stoves
-electric bill- hundreds in winter, locally having spoken to all the local's, low end in summer 150 to 300, winter 400 t0 500
-internet 90 per month
-propane- per use

FG