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What if ? are you prepared ?

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(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

I was thinking it would be good to think of some " what if situations " SHTF / disaster situations, and then determine if we
are prepared for it and solutions as to what we could do. It might help us focus on some items we are lacking
in our supplies.

There are many situations - jump in and suggest your version of a situation to get us thinking

One that comes to mind is if NOBODY could leave their house ( possibly a pandemic ) and even farmers can not go outside,
the pandemic has killed the livestock , and it is either winter and the garden is closed for the winter,
or it is summer and you can not go outside to garden because the pandemic
is unknown air born and N95 masks won't protect, and your food supplies ARE running out.
Some may run out of heating oil fuel or wood. Pandemic will be going on for another 6 months, has been going on for 7 months.
Hydro , water, natural gas for homes, still working (workers are wearing special suits). Phones and internet may or may not
be working in your area. What can we do inside our homes to create food ? What supplies might be needed to do this ?
What else do we need to be sure we have if we can NOT go outside and forage or get fire wood etc.
We would need to have planned for this . Lets assume you HAVE alot of white rice because
we know white rice stores for a very long time and it is often one item preppers stock up on in bulk for the long term 10 - 20 years area first.

This sort of puts the farmers with livestock in the same situation with non farmers. No livestock.

If you are using bottled water, that would run out unless you have huge quantities, you would need to get something like a Berkey to purify the tap water.

I can think of having a sprouter and making sprouts. You would need to have the sprouting beans or seeds on hand that would
last awhile . You either need a sprouter, or a mason jar.

If we had indoor grow lights , is there something we could be growing inside that has some food value ?
Also, if we had sunny windows , is there something we could be growing inside ?

Could we grow potatoes inside in a pot if we had enough light ? We would need to have a few potatoes with eyes to get going.
And you would need to plan well in advance of running out of food to keep your supply going.

Can we grow Quinoa inside ?
Can we grow carrots inside ?
Can we grow Mesclun inside ?

Is there something we could grow inside year round so that it is always available ? Sprouts come to mind but one would need more than sprouts
and rice.

Perhaps we need to practice ahead on growing things inside to find out what works ? I'm thinking I should try MINI carrots this winter .

There are the obvious things you would need alot of .. such as toilet paper and soap and DOG FOOD. All stores are closed.
You might consider buying dog food that already come in some sort of mylar bag, and has a good shelf life. You will need something
for the dogs to pee and poo on . ANY IDEAS. All I can think of is big old towels on a crate plastic bottom tray, which towels can be washed, and the poo
put in toilet.

What is your What if situation ?



   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

I'm envisioning you having to improvise a slingshot to throw dog poo outside an open windows at birds flying overhead, in attempt to maybe bring one down so close that you can reach out and catch it falling so as not to break the go outside rule..... 😆
Nope! No such luck....back to watching the plant grow...... 😥 🙄



   
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(@captain_ambiguous)
Estimable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 212
 

I'm envisioning you having to improvise a slingshot to throw dog poo outside an open windows at birds flying overhead, in attempt to maybe bring one down so close that you can reach out and catch it falling so as not to break the go outside rule..... 😆
Nope! No such luck....back to watching the plant grow...... 😥 🙄

More likely we'd be eating the dog poo 😆



   
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(@captain_ambiguous)
Estimable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 212
 

I'd imagine some would be tunneling through the walls to eat their neighbors. So make sure you have mustard..err I mean a gun for when they come for you!



   
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(@helicopilot)
Member Moderator
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 1487
 

Maybe have some of the special suits/masks? That way, you won't have to go the through that?

More on topic though, I think that sprouting would be a good solution. I keep different bags of different seeds. That would add some flavour to white rice...



   
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(@captain_ambiguous)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 212
 

If you can feed them, I suppose rabbits will keep well indoors and not drive you crazy like chickens. You could maybe feed them with handfuls of grass from near the windows.



   
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(@captain_ambiguous)
Estimable Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 212
 

There's also bugs perhaps. I don't think they're difficult to raise and they can be a source of protein.



   
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(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

If you can feed them, I suppose rabbits will keep well indoors and not drive you crazy like chickens. You could maybe feed them with handfuls of grass from near the windows.

Actually you can sprout some Greens like grass that would feed rabbits might work



   
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(@goldie)
Honorable Member
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 663
Topic starter  

I'm envisioning you having to improvise a slingshot to throw dog poo outside an open windows at birds flying overhead, in attempt to maybe bring one down so close that you can reach out and catch it falling so as not to break the go outside rule..... 😆
Nope! No such luck....back to watching the plant grow...... 😥 🙄

I would just flush the poo down the toilet , but i'd be sure to use a different spoon than one for humans to scoop it up 😆
That would take a few days to get the dog to figure out you wanted it to poo inside , after all that puppy training, probably best to make it do this on
paper in the bathroom so it is handy to the toilet. 😉 and keep the odor in the bathroom.



   
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(@foxglove)
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Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 132
 

I wouldn't worry about the dog pooping in the house we'd be eating the dog if it got bad enough. Our dog is 9 years old and slowing down and realistically not an attack/guard dog unless someone wants to be licked to death. However she's a nice 85 lbs of protein. Don't get me wrong we love our dog but if it meant the dog or my kids....



   
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(@anonymous)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 15 years ago
Posts: 11254
 

If we had indoor grow lights , is there something we could be growing inside that has some food value ?
Also, if we had sunny windows , is there something we could be growing inside ?

Could we grow potatoes inside in a pot if we had enough light ? We would need to have a few potatoes with eyes to get going.
Can we grow Quinoa inside ? Can we grow carrots inside ? Can we grow Mesclun inside ?
Is there something we could grow inside year round so that it is always available ? Sprouts come to mind but one would need more than sprouts
and rice.
...I'm thinking I should try MINI carrots this winter .

You can grow almost anything indoors that can be grown in a greenhouse or under a hoop house. Some/many require heat. For others, just keeping the frost off and the insulation from the house is plenty sufficient.

Winter isn't just cold, the quality of light is significantly lower and the quantity of light is far more limited. What takes 2-3 weeks outside in spring or autumn and especially in summer may take 2-5 times as long to grow in winter, especially if they're not heated. It's just something to consider.

Things that are accustomed to the common gray days of the UK (like those potatoes, plus stuff like cabbage, turnips, leeks and parsnips) are fabulous winter crops even in buckets, rubbermaid tubs, and large pots indoors. Things like cabbage, potatoes, leeks and parsnips tend to take a while. Carrots and turnips can have a faster rotation, but they lack some of the calorie base. That's something individuals have to figure out for their own balance.

Quinoa v. Others
I don't think I'd try quinoa indoors for several reasons: dietary/calorie importance and space to yield mostly.

PROTEINS are important. So are fats, but proteins are important faster in an emergency than fats are usually. The problem is, neither oil seeds nor bean/legume plants tend to be super duper fast OR they really prefer some warmth and heat AND they tend to take up space.
Grains are a little worse, so if I wanted one of the three for sure, indoors, I would likely go with a legume. Per pound, calorie yield is similar, plus you get the protein.

I think I'd rather get an open wire shelving unit (less light blocked, commonly adjustable shelf spacing) and grow crowder beans in 3 tiers than have one bucket and some greens around it for quinoa or amaranth, even though the q&a have edible leaves.
I can get 2-3 cycles of fast lady northern southern beans, Henderson baby limas, or pretty much any lentils per 1 season of those grains.
I can then get 2-4 times the surface area for growing (compared to q or a, or other true grains) if the legumes are stacked in a window.
But I will likely have to have some heat for many of them and they ARE going to take longer, half again or twice as long, if they're not given a grow light due to the light quality and quantity.

With a heated hoop, I'd likely do some short oilseed sunflowers or peanuts, but they're just not efficient in containers. Better to stock up on chia seeds that can go in salads or cereal for fats, or stock plenty enough for a winter-plus-time-to-harvest and then grow oil seeds when the season permits, for me.

I feel much the same about grains (including q&a) and legumes, though.

Grain choice
If I was trying to grow a grain indoors, I think I'd go with a fast variety of barley or oats, myself, something that can pump out harvest in 1/2 or 2/3 the time of quinoa or amaranth. Even though I'm not getting edible leaves during the growing season, at the end I have straw and I can use an electric (solar charged) chipper-shredder to create "dust" for litter boxes, composting toilets, animal bedding, etc. As a hay, they lack nutrients after seed heads have developed, but if I have sufficient feed otherwise, as a dire last resort, the straw could help keep livestock guts functioning.

The thing is, grains aren't super space efficient. Even super efficient (spacewise) wheat yields 40-60 pounds of grains from 1000 sq feet (20x50', 10x100', 25x40' plots density planted or 5x200' yard edging).

I think for emergency winter growing in a window, I'd stick with tubers like turnips and beets, the fast carrots mentioned, and maybe a tub or two of potatoes. For the long-term temporary, the calorie loss isn't a major issue. I can cycle those so fast, they are so much less susceptible to cold (so I don't have to burn extra heating fuels), and they can handle shorter, grayer days with less effect than other staple foods, they're my pet pick.

Really, if the rice is holding out, I would probably focus on a variety of greens, intersperse some green onions and scallions, those carrots, and only do a few of those for something to cut into with a fork and knife here and there. Starvation takes a while, even though the loss of protein affects work.

Perhaps we need to practice ahead on growing things inside to find out what works ?

YES!!! Just like you've said before, absolutely yes.
You don't have to start out trying with enough to notably effect your groceries. Try small samplings of even just 2-5-10 test plants, so that you can get an idea of what grows well with the light, soil, and other conditions in your house. Then you can grab the more prolific varieties for your conditions.
2-5-10 subject plants lets you try lots more in smaller space and shorter time. I'd actually do a 10-20 seed germination test AND a 10-20 seed emergence test consecutively, keeping good records, and then just keep enough for an idea of yield per plant.
15-25 and 50-100 subjects is better, but better to have some idea of a bunch of different types as soon as possible and over several seasons than concentrate on just one per winter and end up caught out later.
Depending on window space, you may not have too many more of any variety going at a time than 10 or 20, anyway, depending on what you choose to plant and what containers are selected.

Also, don't be afraid to try "weeds" and wild edibles, especially those that are both an edible and have an alternate purpose like patience dock, broadleaf plantain, dandelion, henbit, and many, many others.

There are also multi-purpose "normal" garden plants, like:
-Peas, where your yield is a little lower but they have a narrow footprint, could be growing up a short bantam corn (works in my window 2 to a 12-18" deep 8-12" across pot with a pea going up and a carpet of mache, spinach, strawberry spinach, woodland cress, plantain or chickweed) and some other low-drawing shallow-rooted plant. Peas provide a little protein, pods can be harvested early if needed, shoots and leaves taste like a cross between spinach and mild chickweed and are good for salad or cooked greens, fairly fast to produce and cold hearty (windows will get chilly), and the stems and older leaves are high-nitrogen for rabbits (and other livestock).
-Beets, which can grow under/around taller, longer-growing plants, leaves are commonly used in salads and concentrate calcium from the soil (good for bunnies or hens), roots can be used as human food, animal fodder, or to make sugar or booze/vinegar.
There are many more like those, just brief examples for this novel.

Dogs...ANY IDEAS. All I can think of is big old towels on a crate plastic bottom tray, which towels can be washed, and the poo put in toilet.

Don't forget that depending on septic/sewer, if there's something big-big, services will be interrupted and water/sanitation systems are basically run by computers, plus they both need chemicals imported for treatment plants. Toilets operate as a mechanical device, but Sewage is likely to back up.

I like the towel-tray plan. You might try to get them to go straight on the tray and I'd try to go metal instead of plastic. Plastic can be hard to get clean as it develops scratches. If all else fails with metal, you stick it in a fire below melting level and burn off contaminates if cleaning supplies run low. That way, too, you're using a pair of small cloths for clean-up instead of a towel, saving water and labor and cleaning supplies.
You could use alternate buckets like those for composting toilets, although I wouldn't put the dog waste in my garden ever (woods once fully composted or "normal" resumes). However, when restricted to the indoors, you're having to also store vast quantities of sawdust, even if you're going "shouse" and only covering the human/animal buckets once a day to limit waste of carbon.

Super Efficiency
Plastic bottle ladders or towers, PVC towers, wooden boxes set up to stack on the edges of windows can make more use of space. I like towers that have been reinforced so that I can pull them out and turn them for harvest and absolutely blanket my window for the proposed scenario and I personally prefer the kind where I can water each individual.
Small cut-and-come-again crops like lettuce, small mini oriental cabbages, endive, spinach, many small greens, many herbs, and strawberries are classics in the 20oz and 2L bottles. They could also be set up on a wire shelf with a tier level with the sill of radishes or turnips or small round or fingerling carrots or buckets of new/fingerling potatoes, then an 18-30" gap, and another shelf with the salad towers that are mobile and flat, shallow pans for a variety of leafy greens or the tops of previous carrots that I'm re-rooting for later seed collection.

Bunnies/Protein
Captain A's bunny idea is stupendous and he's mostly right. They're pretty quiet. I prefer keeping them with some enrichment and they can make some noise.
They do need space and light, but rabbits can be a great idea for those who have the stomach for it because they can be fed off the greens mentioned and have stored pellets and grain and seed.
Rabbits will require hays/good thick fiber to keep their guts working.
Feeding a natural "wild type diet" (still including thick grasses and hay for their guts) takes kits about 2-4 times longer to get to a good harvest size over a pellet or mixed-type diet. You also have to ease them into new diets as seasons change if they're not free-foraging in pens or tunnels and runs or tractors, or you shut their guts down.



   
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(@quills)
Active Member
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 14
 

If you can feed them, I suppose rabbits will keep well indoors and not drive you crazy like chickens. You could maybe feed them with handfuls of grass from near the windows.

Rabbits have a unique odour that would drive me nuts if I had them in my house. Not going to happen -- I'd rely on my store of beans and grains for protein, I think.

However, something so virulent and airborne that you cannot go outside AT ALL, masks don't filter it, etc., is going to get into your house. Unless your house is hermetically sealed. No regular house is completely air-tight. In the situation as given, I'd say kiss your butt goodbye unless you have a couple years worth of food and a renewable source of water which you knew wasn't contaminated, and a good plan for living inside for a good long while.



   
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