Stashed some Mora utility knives in various places, but I figure I need to prepare for the possibility that my guns will all be confiscated right when I need them and a good fighting knife may be desirable. Also the recent incident in Taiwan, where a psycho killed 4 and injured 21 with his knife, made me realize that a knife can be a formidable weapon in a gunless environment. At the very least, anyone with any sense will think twice about trying to rob somebody armed with one.
Anyway, I'm considering a Ka-Bar USMC. Partly because it's a respectable knife and partly because it's affordable (I may want several). I've noted that it's got a full-length "rat tail" tang that some commenters seem to frown on. But I also tend to think those people were using the knife for utility around the campsite and not for self-defense.
I've also noted that a full-width tang affects the design of the handle. Where the Ka-Bar has a somewhat cylindrical leather handle, a comparable full-tang design like a Sog Seal Team has more of a flat handle. I'm sure each handle design has pros and cons. How would each affect the handling of your knife during a fight, in terms of changing grips and directions one-handed?
*Note - I also like the Ka-Bar's traditional sheath. Snap the button strap and pull the knife out. I could do that in my sleep. Where some fancier sheath designs seem to have a clip retainer that you almost need 2 hands and both eyes to open.
I was a jarhead and have a sentimental attachment to the original style wood-grip Ka-bar, but I actually switch up from yours. Mine very quickly became a camping tool.
Due to the tang and arrangement of the guards, I can very easily fabricate another grip if mine ever snaps for whatever reason.
I also have the ability to sharpen and use the blade for different tasks that work better with different angles and for me, the drop point works very, very well for an all-around hunting blade. It's delicate enough to not wreck my day or hide but sturdy enough to get in between joints far enough for me to get the wedge-edge section into play.
The backk/upper curve can handle opening fuel cans that vacuumed themselves shut because I put them out by sliding a lid over the hole, and the guards are thin enough ut tough enough to also use as screwdrivers for my 10/22 and K98, and as pry bars for those fuel cans.
All that said, I don't love the original leather sheath. I've been in sand and mud and that special painful powder dust too much to really love the snaps. Mine was modified to a cowboy holster style loop guard.
I also don't love it as a carry knife, not when I was in uniform or once I was out, not daily carry and not on an LBV or chest carrier. It's just too heavy and bulky. For the same weight and size, I can carry a multi-tool and a Ranger shiv-style. The shiv and shank don't have guards and I re-wrapped mine in duct tape and then gutted 550 cord to get more heft to the hilt. The shape of the hilt means I can stab or slash and embed it into a tree trunk from either direction without stitches. It's just a nice shape. I prefer the big, round grips, though. What I'd really like is a Ranger shiv with the big, fat, rubberized grip from my Gerber folding blade.
When in gear, in a boot, on my calf, or along my belt in the small of my back, the Ranger shiv just works better for me, mud or rain or sweaty summer day. It dulls faster than the ka-bars, but takes an edge back quickly.
Sometimes it's not just the shape of a grip, it's the size of the hand holding it and the texture that make a difference. The grooved wood and 550 cord both let me change grips quickly, but allow me to retain a good grip. The original hilt of my shiv let me change, but my fingers wrap so far around it, I end up digging my nails into my palm if I have to really add torque. The Gerber gator folding blade I love has a plenty wide enough grip for me, but the rubberized texture doesn't let it spin in my palm. On the other hand, I retain it better in strong-to-weak outward slashing, due to the shape of the blade and the shape and texture of the grip.
before you drop more money into a knife, if a knife is going to be a fighting tool, take a class. best, take a class based around krav maga or a Thai or Philippines martial arts, something that counters blades. They'll have attacks or take-away-plus maneuvers. Plus, countering knives is insanely harder than countering firearms in self defense and it's good stuff to know, since knife attacks tend to come with less than 3 seconds of warning.
Once you figure out what fighting style - and specifically, which defenses and counters - you're most comfortable with, then you find the blade that works best for that, which blade you can most easily carry and deploy.
A samurai would suck with a broadsword or Mapuche machete, and a Crusader would suck with a pirate's cutlass or scimitar. Different tools for different styles, even if the basic job is the same. Modern knives are the same.
I realized I got distracted y my beloved Ka-bar and I didn't actually address the tang:
No, a combat knife doesn't have to have a full width tang.
Length is as or more important than width, really, in the knives and machetes I've used. There are all kinds of configurations for partial tangs, from full or nearly full length to half length rat tails and stubbies. In theory you could beat on a lade hard enough to wiggle a hilt with a full length but half width tang, but it's pretty darn durable and the full length allows for easy repairs.
While flat slab grips are probably the most common full tang grip styles, you can find the rounded and encased tangs for them, with and without screws.
As I did mention in the major ramble, personal preference in holds/tactics affects grip choice, and it's as personalized as what size and shape of jeans work best for each person's daily habits.
Well I stopped by my local military store this morning. I was initially drawn to the similar Ontario 498 over the Kabar. It was a mean-looking, ugly ass knife that also had the upper edge sharpened.
BUT
Wound up getting a SOG Seal Team over both of them, for two reasons. 1) The SOG has more metal in it. And 2) I noticed that if I wasn't looking at it, it was really easy to grab the Ontario and Kabar sideways. There's just nothing positive on the grip handles that tells you what direction the knife is pointed. Could mean the difference between slashing your opponent or slapping him with the side of the blade.
So the SOG it is. I know it's not very concealable but I mostly want this one for home defense. I carry a Leatherman around town anyway. Thanks!
Great thread. Imma hijack it a bit.
I'll admit I've talked some !@#$ about kabar fighting knives, as I'm a huge fan of full tang knives that'll last decades, of batoning, throwing chopping. I'll admit, I love the look. For your purposes ain't nothing wrong with a bayonet style. First line of defense is intimidation.
Mrs prep with pets(I had no idea you were in the marines!?) is right, take training, or if you haven't got time, shadowbox with it. I've said it before, I don't care if it sounds stupid, not everyone has the time for classes, in the meantime if you can at least become familiar with the movements, work on speed, and familiarity with the particular knife, then that's a massive head start to whatever conflict you might get into.
I been looking at the Ontario SP1 it's cheap(fit for my budget), but its seemingly full tang(I hope) 1095 steel also made in the USA, so it could be very well worth the 40 bucks. Take a look at this site for knives- http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/ONSP1/ontario-sp1-spec-plus-marine-combat-fixed-7-blade-kraton-handle They got whatever you can think of including all kinds of EDC stuff.
One more thing I'll say, and some might agree or disagree, but theirs a reason cops carry batons and not knives. It's because a 26 inch steel baton beats a 7 inch blade any day(Check that website I posted, they got a bunch of batons on there with great reviews. if you train with both then that's better. And baton training courses are much more accessible, less lethal(law abiding) though you could easily kill someone with it, like the shotgun with loading the chamber, the initial SNAP of the baton will help deter the attack. Or so I'd like to believe hahaha. They're just real tough, I mean you gotta collapse em on concrete.
(I had no idea you were in the marines!?)
One more thing I'll say, and some might agree or disagree, but theirs a reason cops carry batons and not knives. It's because a 26 inch steel baton beats a 7 inch blade any day.
Exposed to my language during fifteen minutes of nightly network news, I would immediately be identified as naval service of some kind or a lifelong roughneck, boss man. When I offer an opinion on gear, it's not solely based on research. I was lucky enough to be in for the transitiona from kevlar and LBVs to chest carriers, ALICE to MOLLE and the various generations of snaps and velcro and squeeze-prong closures, M16s to accoutrement draped M4s, 2 uniform or boot changes, and the change in tactics from what we knew in the '90s to how we fought in mid-2000s, and was lucky enough to see three totally different inclement terrain types during less than "normal" hospitable operations and two more where natives did not necessarily like us and to test gear there.
I totally agree about the baton. I carry a folder daily and did when I was in, as a EDC utility catch-all. It now scrapes rocks and opens packages with a little less abuse than the ones while I was in dealt with. I started carrying an asp expandable because it was legal more places (base didn't allow CCW even in states where I had a license) and it was something I could use easily if something tried to eat my dogs or cat.
I carry a 21" wavemaster foam most of the time - reach, texture for slick situations, and the textured grip is enough to wedge into a leatherman sheath to wear sideways along my belt (lays closer than the plastic ones). I carry a 16" airweight with a narrow loop-hook designed for some kind of molle or some radio bag (stole it from boy toy) when I'm being even more subtle.
I also have a 16" in my truck (long enough to smart, short enough to open in small spaces) with asp's window breaker.
Boy Toy (also once-a-jarhead) carries a 21" wavemaster in his truck and one that is clipped near the handlebars on his motorcycle (don't get excited; enduro/confused type).
Some of it is because crime and harassment have gone up in our world, and we're in a state where we can't carry with additional places in our lives where we can't carry, but there's too much random violence and especially as we've gotten a little older and less lean (and possibly smarter) and we want a little something extra as an equalizer. Asps let us carry more places, get some extra reach, and counter both knives and firearms better than with our bare hands or another knife.
To go back to what singecell pointed out, it takes practice to draw and open smoothly, just like anything else, and some training would be best but that practice is invaluable.
They're also heavy in many cases, so a pouch and a pound of sugar hanging from the belt can help decide which baton is right for you. Don't try to close them on household tile and do not close your freaking asp on the struts under my carpet, mister! (For-real happened until I decided I'd just save myself the trip to the concrete and close it on his cast-iron skillet; all of a sudden, communication lines opened.)

