The Power of Morale

A Ukraine Press Conference

This is what most of their press conferences are like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZTSr2utk0w
They explain that the rebels are shooting their own civilians now who are fleeing...yup... they shoot the people that support, feed and hide them daily and are likely their family and loved ones. This statement is so obviously a coverup for more mass killings and it should be now obvious as to how far that Ukraine's present government will go. They don't seem too worried that the rest of the world won't believe this story. This has been their daily ritual for months and we are still backing them.

The problem with their approach is they are also losing the support of their people who must commit these atrocities in their name. Many follow orders as it is obvious what consequences can be, but belief in the cause diminishes as one's moral conscience has inner conflicts with their own belief systems intervening. And it is likely being given bad orders such as these latest that convinced the 72nd infantry Division to defect to Russia and seek sanctuary. It must have taken alot of disgruntled soldiers talking aloud to persuade others this was a good choice of action. The video footage of some returning was proof that this event really did occur. The greatest damage to Ukraine though was having their soldiers know that defecting to Russia was now a viable option to this current madness. Russia again must be commended on their showing the Ukraine people that they will forgive them with this single action.

Child Soldiers

You know things are not going well for your side when you must consider this option. The following is a video showing a 15 year old boy who trains others basic soldier skills. This interview shows he is being used more as a recruiting tool by the rebels but suggests that all rebels are volunteers still whereas the west has already resorted to drafting conscripts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PRue-PvfUI

It is sad that a kid even has to consider the differences between socialism and fascism, let alone fight for it! Even though Russia likely supplies the rebels with some basic weaponry, it is obvious to see that they have very little to work with in comparison to their EU backed opponents. Patriotism is a concept that many of us have been taught from youth and it's at times like this that one's country pulls that String for you to fight for their cause. One can see that this kid has thought about killing but his response is only a logical concept that we all likely share. This suggests others haven't yet influenced him with real battle experiences. It is also obvious that "fighting fascism" is their main recruiting slogan of the rebels.

Fascism's Grip

It is also hard not to notice that the west never comments against this finer point. I doubt that the majority of those in the west agree with fascism, it's just that living in a failing economy has them grasping at whatever handouts come their way, no matter what strings are attached. This is how fascism really works! Fascism requires that you just do and do not ask why. Good for those who give orders, but not so good for those who receive them. This is why most don't support fascism, they are just caught up in the struggle for survival at it's basic ground floor levels.

One should also consider that we too could be subjected to this same kind of struggle for basic needs if our economy suddenly took a dump. And it is often due to this fact that many ignore the plights of those who confront fascism today. Due to the instability of our countries present economy, statistics are often quietly manipulated in attempt to convince the majority all is well and to continue your careless spending. But to think that our governments aren't preparing for such dire events and even consider resorting to similar tactics is just naive.

Prisoner's of War

Taking prisoners is something that seems to be an unused option up to this point. This video shows that the rebels have captured 3 Ukraine soldiers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP3pqjG7luU

Now the cleaning of their wounds is likely to show the Ukrainian army that they will be treated well if captured. Just seeing this video works on multiple levels of their conscious mind.

- It show that the rebels have more humanity than those of the east presently do because they have been convinced by the present majority that those in the east are useless
- It suggests that maybe they too should take prisoners too for later exchange purposes
- It suggests that maybe they should even treat those prisoners well also, just in case they someday get captured
- It shows the world that the rebels are not the evil ones as these prisoners seem calm and even cry like they were talking with close friends
- the rebels even remove the prisoner restraints seem to portray trust and the prisoners seem relaxed and even remorseful (I think)....
- If these prisoners were killed after, they likely didn't see it coming....

I wish we could translate what was being said as this appears to have a lot of anti-hate propaganda in it's presentation. Things get pretty gruesome at @ 8:00 as they show faces blown off of enemies after some battle as they search enemy vehicles. The rest shows the destruction to cities caused by the continuous artillery shelling.

Here's another tactic the rebels are using. They take a captured lieutenant and took him for a tour of bombed out Donetsk. Then they show the video to the world to gain sympathy for their plight. If you don't have the military, then folks resort to what weapons they do have, the internet being one of these. I think it is obvious what the west is doing and genocide seems more apparent as they take no prisoners.

And here are the those tools of the west being placed for more daily work of destroying the east. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV33igdwLps

Is Putin Successful Today?

The following debate is called "The Secret to Putin's Success" and discusses some things you likely haven't considered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgClLFmcfdg
Don't change the channel..... 😆 It has some very good points as to why and what is presently going on in world affairs.

- A New York anti-war activist points out that the US continually refuses to allow Russia into their EU click mainly because world powers simply need a reason to justify maintaining their military might. Seems you can't justify the mega military complex and just claim it's to fight a few terrorists hiding in caves. He mentions various times that Russia was denied when they wanted to participate.

- he also points out that they are also the competition, because the new formed BRIC represents 1/2 the population of the world when taking in Russia, China, Brazil(meaning most of South America), South Africa. Add nuclear weapons to this mix and they can equally match and therefore not fear EU antagonism.

- another point is that since the west has bullied and controlled many countries today, so when they chastise Putin, they are really contributing to the rise in popularity of Putin internationally.

- they point out that western media's continual blaming of Russia for Ukraine's current crisis has damaged their integrity as being biased propaganda

These are all valid points which in the end are damning the EU and thus a majority of the UN. The UN's strength relies on mutual cooperation as does NATO. Losing faith in those you are supporting causes internal conflict which weakens our side further. So Putin is likely gaining strength in popularity only because our side is becoming more divided due to having used deceitful methods to achieve specific goals and getting repeatedly caught.

So maybe Putin isn't the greatest strategist...he just hasn't been caught telling so many lies!

Knuckle,

Please take this as a friendly piece of advice because that is how it is intended. The preppers network has been, up until now, a community of folks interested in being prepared for calamity. People post items of interest and concern to get feedback from their online community. This in not how your activity on the forums are recognized. You create and populate entire threads like a zealot on a soapbox. The fact that no one replies or engages you in conversation should tell you that you are not thought to be open to conversation or debate (zealot). It won't take long before this community starts blocking your posts all together. Do you really want to be 'that guy with the sandwich placard' standing in the middle of the sidewalk who is summarily ignored by the sea of humanity??? Stop it, just stop. We all know your opinion. We get it.

Antsy

Knuckle,

Please take this as a friendly piece of advice because that is how it is intended. The preppers network has been, up until now, a community of folks interested in being prepared for calamity. People post items of interest and concern to get feedback from their online community. This in not how your activity on the forums are recognized. You create and populate entire threads like a zealot on a soapbox. The fact that no one replies or engages you in conversation should tell you that you are not thought to be open to conversation or debate (zealot). It won't take long before this community starts blocking your posts all together. Do you really want to be 'that guy with the sandwich placard' standing in the middle of the sidewalk who is summarily ignored by the sea of humanity??? Stop it, just stop. We all know your opinion. We get it.

Antsy

I am glad that you pointed this out. I never considered the thought of being compared to a zealot. To consider myself as one who wishes to incite people to riot is definitely not my intention as I don't condone violence as a just method of achieving any goal. There are times when one has to match violence with violence to survive, and only then do I see violence as an acceptable option.

I've read many books on psychology just as a hobby for at least 10 years now, in trying to have a better understanding on why people react in ways that they do. And now I study and anaylize Ukraine's conflict in this same manner, and from the very start it has opened my eyes as to how many minor conflicts eventually evolved into all out civil war.

My intent is to show others what I too have been learning about on a daily basis. Hopefully giving insights to these modern day tactics of manipulation at least prevents that same technique from simply being used again as it's methods have now been exposed. The more that see thru these manipulations, the less likely their ability to be reused. I don't believe in just hoarding knowledge and using it to manipulate others in turn. I would also like to believe that I instead present alternatives to violence....

1/ by showing others examples of what is occurring elsewhere and how those folks were simply mislead by false promises and deceitful leadership
2/ to spread this understanding amongst their friends and they'll tell 2 friends, and so on...
3/ to maybe stop the writing of new laws that can be used against us or our kids later
4/ by speaking out against things that you disagree with instead of turning a blind eye
5/ by maybe even planting a garden now as opposed to just bugging out and trusting on luck.

What I conclude is that many come to this forum for knowledge on how to prepare for some future crisis as they can somehow sense that such a thing could occur in the not so distant future. Many are inexperienced at most aspects of prepping and have many preconceptions due mainly to the influence of television. This is where all that "Lock & Load" thinking gets it's start. I've read various comments in this forum suggesting that this approach is how the individual is going to resolve their issues. They must somehow consider that anarchy will be everywhere and nobody will notice the killing....this path has a long list of possibilities that they haven't considered or they'd otherwise see it is not as good an option and seek a better alternative. I usually just point out enough details to let one's imagination follow thru various outcomes.

I try not to tell people what to think, but hopefully just how to think! I wrote the First Aid kit program to teach folks how to make a kit to suit their own individual needs rather than trusting it to work on the day you really have to rely upon it. I wrote the Weapons stats program to allow the user to better determine what he needs by providing comparison stats to see the differences and then factoring in such as ammo costs which they likely didn't consider. I never wrote it so folks could prepare for some zombie apocalypse.

And I hope these efforts to educate others speak loud enough to counter the suggestion of my being a crazed zealot standing on a soapbox.(nice visual analogy though). I present techniques to challenge their daily news and to note that there might more to what is really going on than what is being presented.

This article somewhat answer a question that I have wondered about.

The Question: What is it that truly separates those in the West from those of the East?

This is an interview with a rebel soldier that was once a soldier with the Ukraine army. He explains that those in the west want all Russian speaking Ukrainians to leave or die, that simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40rYdwfRAmQ

Seems hard to believe then that enough of these same people had elected someone from the east as their leader before this offer of the EU's divided them. And now they expect that all Russian speaking people will just leave and give up all they have ever worked for....

Backdoor Influence

Clashes erupt near Russian border https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI2G5ZOMy_U

Now the major players in the Ukraine crisis has always been those who provide and coax from the shadows. The UN has been openly supplying the new fascist government while Russia has been likely supplying the east to maintain an opposing force to this new regime change. Neither can step forth and challenge without the beginnings of another world war...so they instead manipulate those in Ukraine to best suit their needs from the shadows to avoid the blame. In this way deniable options are always at hand.

US imposed sanctions have been the weapon of choice to weaken Russia by destroying it's trade routes. This likely has hurt Russia and will even make this winter a bleaker one due to these sanctions. But in turn they have further destabilized Europe's economy and they will likely suffer an even more than Russia does. In the meantime, the initial plan to start the gas exploitation from frakking east Ukraine has been halted until the successful control of the eastern region is achieved. This means that Europe now has to obtain it's 1/3 fuel loss from elsewhere as ties have been severed and Ukraine has still never paid it's last bill. The plan for Ukraine to build a border wall dividing Russia and Ukraine is therefore no longer a viable one either.

Th UN has been loosing support due to economic pressures and the US will likely have to change it's approach and consider compromise with Russia yet. The EU (with UN backing) have played a daring hand of aggressive moves in attempt to take all and weaken Russia's life long grip on it's closest neighbours.

But how likely was this endeavor to eventually fail? It seems that they promoted Russia to retaliate at every turn and constantly set them up for a major confrontation. Yet Russia maintains a steadfast wall of calm diplomacy throughout constant finger pointing that they are the cause of every crime committed. Even this last endevour to block a Russian aid convoy failed and the EU lost more face as it became obvious that the convoy was just an aid convoy as stated. And their attempts to deny this help to those in the east brings world attention to their already skeptical actions and boosts Putin's popularity even further.

So what is to occur now as winter is just around the corner? Is there a contingency plan or is this lack of fuel just another factor to press those in Europe into accepting major conflict as the only answer to their predicament?

Is It Time To Fight?

Is Russia finally making a play? If so, what should be done about it? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctpcrxT1Lu0
NATO finally shows real proof of Russia's movement into Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xV0FUx5i9eA

Seems that things are really starting to warm up in Ukraine. You can bet that Russia will appear like the liberator to those countries that are not affiliated with the EU. This would have been viewed somewhat differently if we hadn't supported the west while they were trying to kill all those in the east... Maybe our eyes should now be also watching what other major countries like India and China are doing presently as they too will have to make choices as to which side of this fence they stand on. .

This is because any victor of such a conflict will wield even more power that they would soon have to eventually confront themselves. So do they then back those whom they consider more in line with their thinking or do they wait until both are weakened from battle first? All of those shadow puppet tactics we used will have a great influence over those who were simply watching from the side lines. I hope our leaders consider all the players that could jump in before they fully commit to battle as the final answer.

So lets look at some factors that influence success in most wars...

1. Morale : How positive are those do the actual fighting about the cause they presently fight for?

2. Strength: Who wields the greatest power and how immediate can it come into play to set the stage for positional supremacy?

3. Supply Lines: The shorter the lines, the faster the reloads. The longer the weaker and the more susceptible to failure from attack.

4. Allies: How reliable are those that supposedly have your back?

5. Protected: How susceptible are we or our allies to having to divide our forces due to having to protect another flank elsewhere?

6. Sustainability: who will run out of finances and resources first?

Each of these factors hold many possible answers as there are so many considerations involved to correctly answer each properly. Yet the probable conclusion is not as much in our favor as we are being continually led to believe by our government. To preclude that if a war should occur, that the enemy would not attempt to divide us by also attacking our homeland is just naive. And then add the fact that Germany might later switch sides(especially due to their hatred of fascism) is another risk as they have often shown their disagreement in many EU actions taken as they already have heavy commerce committed with Russia compared to the rest of Europe. And if they do so, the Euro will fail because Germany is the only reason it still survives. And we all know that the US economy is very unstable itself....will this war really strengthen it or just weaken it further? Do you feel lucky?

Just some food for thought...........

"Remember when You point a Finger, 3 more are pointing back at You!"

Putin is now joining in on the blame game. This path now opens the stage to debate. His response now allows others to better perceive his innocence or guilt as he tries to defend specific events. So far it is just Russia's Ambassador who is addressing events and only to point fingers back so far.... Putin is not answering the questions as yet but he is now leaking out his future defense thru the media.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3vYUwYKS1s

Note how Putin is presenting himself as the teacher. He is sitting (as he often does) so that you view him as less threatening. He is calm ( as he always is, showing no emotional conflicts within), and explaining that the events that have been occurring in Ukraine are reminiscent of events that occurred during WWII (another true statement).

He is drawing the viewer to his side of the argument by simply using facts that too we were taught in school. This in turn then promotes viewer disgust at these same atrocities being committed today. This is how Putin plans on winning world public opinion. It is far more feasible than UN's accepting Ukraine explanation that their continual bombing will ultimately unite all of Ukraine....

The rebels now admit that they have up to 4000 Russian "volunteers" helping them. This in turn gives Russia more room for further denial of direct involvement. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w650xquPYPI
This tactic will further delay UN's ability to respond as precise proof will therefore still be needed to justify direct conflict with Russia. Thus another feather in Putin's hat as dreams of the EU accessing east Ukraine's resources dwindles.

I again wish to repeat that I don't side with Putin in any way. It is just obvious that Putin has more of the truth on his side than we do. It is the lies that will weaken our resolve and in turn strengthen the opposition. It would be better to have our governments at least present a more believable story that the folks could more readily stand behind. The UN has been continually prodding Russia to react, but they seem to have expected an outright straight forward confrontation, not the same conniving back door trickery that they used daily procedure....

It is just sad that those resources which should strengthen a nation can become the fuel that in turn can destroy a nation as others lust for that which they don't possess!

Hey, boss,
Just saying and take it for what it's worth, and understand that I understand that threads get off topic as conversations and spinoffs evolve...

This thread started with a couple of good, useful posts and there was one fairly early on that also kind of applied.
It has since turned into further dissection of the Russia-Ukraine game.
There are already a couple other posts that pretty much focus on that topic now, one of them the war-economy thread that has largely focused on this situation and one that I think specifically started there and stayed there.

And sure, with this very last post and a couple of others, the propaganda and airs projected come up and have teaching points, but that's not how they're written. And then the posts end with the theories.

Obviously, there are no hard and fast rules about where you post what or how many threads you can have going, but it was a shame to see this one morph into pure politics, since the original focus was a good one.
-P

Hey, boss,

This thread started with a couple of good, useful posts and there was one fairly early on that also kind of applied.
It has since turned into further dissection of the Russia-Ukraine game.
There are already a couple other posts that pretty much focus on that topic now, one of them the war-economy thread that has largely focused on this situation and one that I think specifically started there and stayed there.

And sure, with this very last post and a couple of others, the propaganda and airs projected come up and have teaching points, but that's not how they're written. And then the posts end with the theories.

Obviously, there are no hard and fast rules about where you post what or how many threads you can have going, but it was a shame to see this one morph into pure politics, since the original focus was a good one.
-P

Coming from you Mrs. Prep, I did a hard look back... politics are not the issue as the introduction to this thread started with how Hitler got the public to follow him down such an obvious evil path. What better example could I use then what is occurring today in Ukraine and showing what is or isn't being presented daily in our news? I think the real dilemma is that it is that many find it hard to remain objective when they might have to openly admit that our governments present position might be more that of the usurper than the defender.

Consider most who come to this forum easily speak of prepping for some future event where they will have to battle their fellow countrymen for the last remaining resources. Logic suggests that they therefore don't trust our current system to sustain them during a major crisis. But it is hard not to note that many also are preparing for a possible face off with their own government. This is often done with a mild suggestion that has been carefully added to present this possibility without quite saying it aloud... many folks do it and do it often! Thus one shows distrust in their own government but the speaker considers that they are still safe because they never quite came right out and stated it.

In a future society under a military dictatorship, that thinking wouldn't save you! If Ukraine had the same tools that our present governments wield right now, a lot more weeding of their current population would have already occurred. And it is these new tools of our own government that make the majority of us nervous today . Meanwhile our government writes new laws (that will allow them to utilize these tools later) that portray fascist standards and yet only a few stand up in protest. One should then consider their even having come to such as this forum can be later seen as an act of intent to justify government reprisal. Seems it is getting hard to hide from Big Brother unless you are willing to hole up somewhere and using only the basics of mankind's ingenious devices. Therefore I finally accepted that "In for a dime, in for a dollar" philosophy as my best approach.

As for the bearing of this thread, it still seems on target to my initial intention of showing how we are often being misled. I admit that much of what I present will make the majority uncomfortable as it often does with me too. Hypothesis is what much of psychology and philosophy is based upon. Discovering the inner workings is the name of the game. Seeing through the smoke and mirrors to reveal the hidden truth is the only reward. And I'm sure that Putin can lie with the best of them, he just doesn't seem to have to as often as yet!

Do you know that both Russia and China have a lack of religious tolerance as a common trait? Seems even the Bible professes that religion will fall...so if these two countries were to join forces, that eventuality would also become more likely. I guess that it depends on how each of us views the Apocalypse, but this might suggest I'm not quite ready to see prophecy fulfilled by us pissing off a possible King of the north(just in case)....I somehow envision us inevitably walking this pre-determined destiny with a flashback of Charlton Heston looping in my brain where he says " So it is written, so let it be done" :roll:( in his role as Moses). 😀 ( or is this another conspiracy theory too) 😕

I should quit now as I next remember "for broad is the road that leads to destruction" in my defense for not believing our daily news when proclaiming that bombs are being dropped in the name of uniting Ukraine!

For those who are too young to remember, Quebec had considered separation from the rest of Canada in the late 60's and early 70's, but only managed 40% of the votes to do so. If they had won by a majority, would the rest of Canada simply bombed them until they changed their mind?

Now Canada has been doing business with the US for hundreds of years. But China promises they can boost our economy, but first we have to break ties with the US. At the last minute, our Prime minister changes his mind and is overthrown by angry citizens who wish to deal with China instead. They instill a new leader who is promoted by China...but them pesky Frenchmen wish to stay with the US and refute our new imposed leader. They proclaim themselves a sovereign nation and that they are no longer a part of Canada. Our new leader says we need Quebec's land to keep this deal with China as they have to frak much of the region for its gas resources and all them Frenchmen should just go back to France anyways...they can't just separate like that and ruin this deal!

- Does this now give Canada the right to bomb every town and city in Quebec back to the stone age?

- With no offer of compensation, should all Quebecer's be expected to pack up and leave their homeland where they grew up and lived until this moment?

- Would many Canadians really want to join the military just so you could go kill some Frenchmen?

- Are Canadians willing to displace or kill all the French just so you can access those resources while likely destroying much of the region by doing so?

- And would you really expect the US to just sit by and to not aid the French in their fight for existence...?

I know I kind of misled you with the lead into this replication of Ukraine's crisis....I did it to point out that this is not really a political issue, it is more a moral issue! I'm just trying to find a way to bring the rational aspect to everyone's front door without them feeling disloyal to their countries stand... Seems many other nations of NATO and the UN have volunteers who are joining the rebels as they too see this as unjust!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFztkaOOII

For those who are too young to remember, Quebec had considered separation from the rest of Canada in the late 60's and early 70's, but only managed 40% of the votes to do so. If they had won by a majority, would the rest of Canada simply bombed them until they changed their mind?

Now Canada has been doing business with the US for hundreds of years. But China promises they can boost our economy, but first we have to break ties with the US. At the last minute, our Prime minister changes his mind and is overthrown by angry citizens who wish to deal with China instead. They instill a new leader who is promoted by China...but them pesky Frenchmen wish to stay with the US and refute our new imposed leader. They proclaim themselves a sovereign nation and that they are no longer a part of Canada. Our new leader says we need Quebec's land to keep this deal with China as they have to frak much of the region for its gas resources and all them Frenchmen should just go back to France anyways...they can't just separate like that and ruin this deal!

- Does this now give Canada the right to bomb every town and city in Quebec back to the stone age?

- With no offer of compensation, should all Quebecer's be expected to pack up and leave their homeland where they grew up and lived until this moment?

- Would many Canadians really want to join the military just so you could go kill some Frenchmen?

- Are Canadians willing to displace or kill all the French just so you can access those resources while likely destroying much of the region by doing so?

- And would you really expect the US to just sit by and to not aid the French in their fight for existence...?

I know I kind of misled you with the lead into this replication of Ukraine's crisis....I did it to point out that this is not really a political issue, it is more a moral issue! I'm just trying to find a way to bring the rational aspect to everyone's front door without them feeling disloyal to their countries stand... Seems many other nations of NATO and the UN have volunteers who are joining the rebels as they too see this as unjust!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQFztkaOOII

First of all you compare the peaceful Quebecois separatist movement which pursued their objective of a sovereign Quebec through democratic means like referendums with the situation in eastern Ukraine where the separatist movement started violently and quickly became militarized and is sponsored by a foreign state. Then you do your parallel with a Canadian scenario but you're twisting the facts again:

<< .....but first we have to break ties with the US. >>

I never heard of the EU imposing Ukraine to break ties with Russia. On the contrary, since a lot of the russian gas imported by EU goes through Ukraine, EU would likely would have liked Ukraine to stay in business with Russia. I can tell you though that one condition that NATO imposes on a country in order to join the alliance is that it has treaties signed with all the neighboring countries so new members won't bring any conflicts that could implicate the other members.

<<<They instill a new leader who is promoted by China.>>>

Ukrainian president Poroshenko was democratically elected by the people of Ukraine during an election process that was recognized internationally, Russia included.

<<Our new leader says we need Quebec's land to keep this deal with China as they have to frak much of the region for its gas resources and all them Frenchmen should just go back to France anyways...they can't just separate like that and ruin this deal! >>

I'm not aware of any condition imposed by the EU for Ukraine to join, that stipulates that the Eastern regions should stay in Ukraine or of any request by president Poroshenko that the russian speaking population in the east should move to russia. If you do, please provide the source.

On the matter of shale gas, this is another disinformation. Shale gas exploitation doesn't happen over night. It would take years before it could be done. In the mean time EU business are already hurt by sanctions imposed to russia and the shortages of gas. Eu was very reluctant on imposing sanctions as there were very close business ties, especially in Germany, with russian companies. They do realize now that whatever money they lose now with sanctions doesn't compare to what Europe can lose in the future if they take no action.

<<<Seems many other nations of NATO and the UN have volunteers who are joining the rebels as they too see this as unjust! >>>

there are few thousands Russian citizens "volunteers", some former military, some active duty but spending their vacation in Donetsk, some Cossacks, Kazakhs, chechens, 4 french and 2 spanish f-ing commies. It never fails to amaze me how you completely reject the propaganda of western media while fully embracing and spreading Putin's propaganda. Very intelligent.

<< I know I kind of misled you with the lead into this replication of Ukraine's crisis>>

you did indeed. I thought that you hijacked your own thread but in actuality you're trying to show how the power of suggestion works by trying to do it yourself here.

Prom, logic shows that Russia didn't initiate any of the events which led to the overthrow of Ukraine's leader as he decided to go with Russia instead. Throughout the uprising, guiding hands of the EU promoted and tolerated the killing of those in the east starting with the Odessa massacre and the leading to the continual shelling of eastern cities. The intent was obvious total destruction to make all abandon their homes and force them to relocate elsewhere.

Some separatists of Canada later became the 2nd known terrorists group to exist(after the IRA) which formed into the FLQ. We Canadians still did not consider attacking Quebec at any point which was my main point. I did not add that Canada was completely broke either like those of the Ukraine are, but I doubt that would make us choose such a violent path either.

The majority of those in east Ukraine did not opt for battle either even though they were being continually shelled with no demands of surrender or other recourse. There were no talks held to state that those in the east would later be reimbursed for their losses or such likely due to the Ukraine government being on the brink of collapse. Yet does this financial dilemma therefore justify their choice of actions?

Yes, with the mobile drilling rigs of today, extraction of gas could be underway quite quickly. Would they get enough to meet this years demands? No, but somehow powers that be seemed intent on pushing this situation with promise that this dividing of Ukraine was good for all in the EU.

It is obvious that Russia had nothing to gain, so who did? Russia would have been content to leave things as they were. It also seems they are still trying to make things tolerable so they don't have to have a war on their immediate doorstep. If it were otherwise, we'd already be knee deep in battle already. We watch how Russia is always trying to avoid war and then hear stories that they are the cause of all that is occurring.

- If you heard a car coming but couldn't see it when looking, you'd eventually cross the street as your eyes would overrule thru logical deduction.

- If you saw a car coming, but couldn't hear it, you'd determine it's speed using logical deduction and just assume the car was quiet.

I'd bet most people would trust their eyes over their ears in just about every scenario. So why is it that when what our ears hear in the news doesn't quite match what our eyes perceive when watching live footage of events, do many still believe the news report? I am not telling you to just believe my perspective. I'm suggesting you challenge that which is being fed to you daily and use common logic to uncover the truth that isn't being told.

The media only continues this approach as it has proven to be an effective tool to persuade the masses. Most lies can be proven false without much effort of logic being applied, but one still has to make the effort before they can see these lies......

Yes, with the mobile drilling rigs of today, extraction of gas could be underway quite quickly.

From Energy Post: Shale gas: what it could really mean for Europe

<<<At present, shale gas in Europe is in its exploratory phase and before starting commercial production of shale gas, pilot projects are indispensable. In this exploratory phase, which could take up to 6 months, between 8 and 12 wells per pad could be drilled. In the next stage, when it has become clear that there is gas in place and there is enough geological information, drilling efficiency could be substantially increased using modern equipment. Thus, a simple multiplication of an average number of rigs (20-25)[15] per year by an average number of wells per pad (between 12-20) shows that a fleet of rigs as well as a number of wells could be available to start commercial production of shale gas in Europe within a reasonable timeframe of 5-8 years>>>>>

The article is dated June 16, 2014 and it also explains that Europe doesn't have the rigs to do the drilling yet so they will either have to build them or import them from US. On top of that there is the political process to approve fracking which is controversial and the economics of shale fracking in Europe which is different than in US.

http://www.energypost.eu/shale-gas-really-mean-europe/

Can you present the source for your information?