- Ukraine Today: describes their military disaster https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HZFGi_cago
more claims that Russia suffered great losses, yet no Russian protests over MIA soldiers and no graves or other evidence to show Russia's involvement. It would be very hard to hide a 1000 bodies as even a few are soon located.

- OSCE state both sides are at least talking https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbeKCEC-TXQ
maybe they will stop warring for the winter

- Kerry: the choice is Russia's https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiJCmffQs_I
why doesn't he mention that it is Kiev who initiates these conflicts with the continued shelling of the east? Rebels just respond when enemies are within their eastern boundaries as you never hear of them crossing into enemy territory.

- RT News: Ukraine political analyst explains Kiev's s continued war actions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tNaV_kGFo

- RT News: NATO is to increase troops in Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xozdrs9POTU
they claim it is Russia's fault though

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- RT News: NATO is to increase troops in Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xozdrs9POTU
they claim it is Russia's fault though

You got it wrong. NATO is to increase troops presence into eastern countries that are NATO members, not Ukraine. And yes, it is Russia's fault. Eastern European NATO members are spooked by the takeover of Crimea buy russia and by their actions in eastern Ukraine. Baltic countries, NATO members have a large Russian minority for example and they fear Russia might use the same excuse to invade them. And you can't blame them, it happened before.

Here's another reason, on Nov 4th we commemorated the crushing of the Hungarian revolt against communism and russian occupation. Read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956

Please note on the "Soviet version of the events" that the soviet version of the events was that:
<<Fascist, Hitlerite, reactionary, counter-revolutionary hooligans financed by the imperialist west took advantage of the unrest to stage a counter-revolution.>>

Sounds familiar? Did anybody say Ukrainian fascists ? Yes, if you oppose russian imperialism you're immediately cataloged as fascists, hitlerist or imperialist, and you need to disappear.

So your suggesting that Russia may now take over Ukraine over an event that occurred back in 1956? They waited this long before they decide to respond to this past event? Wow...NATO seems to really be reaching then if this is their justification for increasing troops in the region. I thought that they were still on the band wagon that Putin is trying for world domination while we all know that NATO isn't.... 😕 (even though they've been swallowing up all the countries around Russia since the 90's).

They can only play this Crimea card for so long as Russia hasn't done a thing since. Putin even mentioned his reasons in a link just above about Crimea and how Ukraine's PM was with him at the time asking for help. He also mentions that Russian people were threatened by this overthrow and such that he had no choice, etc..
We all know that Russia is never giving Crimea back. To continue along this path is just the reason that the US uses to continue adding sanctions and weaken Russia's economy. Destabilization of Russia helps prolong the expiry of the US dollar awhile longer. Thus nations that would opt out of trading in USD have to stay the course longer and thereby support the bully for a while longer yet.

So which of the two stories is harder to swallow when you look at all of the evidence?

And so isn't this now just the perfect time to build up their troops in Ukraine as it appears that Russia has apparently just sent 32 tanks into Ukraine? A little too convenient when you think about it.

Is Russia Making a Move?

So there are a larger number of threads than usual proclaiming Russia has sent equipment into Ukraine but nothing of any real proof so far.

- claims 32 Russian tanks invading Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoyB28WphQ0
that's a Russian invasion? Wow, times must be bad!

- US questioned about possible evidence & actions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Fanosg1dg
Reporters ask some very direct questions and get the usual indirect answers. There is no public proof of Russian equipment crossing into Ukraine(even with all the drones and satellites), but Ukraine's requests for more troops is ample justification for expansion in complete disregard for the Minsk agreement that the EU proclaims Russia is always breaking.

Meanwhile at the Frontlines...

- TV News: seems Ukraine is advancing with what might be Merc advisors running the show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoyB28WphQ0
note the difference in attire?

- ATO: Ukraine seems to be shelling once again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZLp97nNkS0

- War in Ukraine: rebel leader Givi brags of his success in 24 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKVwjvg3j14
no way to substantiate any of these claims and he has done bragging such as this often before. He is the one that retook the Donetsk airport though

- RT News: US says no proof of Russian invasion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erCrlOuIaZo
Really? Does that mean that they will no longer send troops to Ukraine? I bet not.

- Ukraine Today: Neo-Nazi heads Kiev Police https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgi8Xuj2tW4
amazed that this news agency is unhappy but kudo's to them on this one point anyways

- Ukraine Today: McCain says they should send Ukraine weapons https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPrF8psnq2Q
no comment cause it wouldn't be good...

- War in Ukraine: So here is the infamous Motorola's troop on the move https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-COFSxgMlc
yup, them rebels seem to have it all while enroute, wonder why others don't travel this way. Sad though that the civilians must travels with white flags in convoy and prey others don't shoot them.

So what about the latest shelling on Donetsk?

- Anti-Maidan: Ukraine shelling kills woman and child https://www.youtube.com/user/2014AntiMaidan
now you get to watch as a man goes from the state of shock until it finally turns into anger. Doesn't it still seem kinda one sided, especially when you note that all the killing is only in the east and most of it seems to be just civilians? Even by stopping now, winter is likely to kill many more anyways as they no longer even have the basics such as heat and food without the taking of the few handouts from Russia. Most have no income and nowhere to run, yet the west seems to continue the shelling daily.

And old saying comes to mind from the 60's which stated "Fighting for Peace is like making Love for your Virginity". Funny how it now seems to make much more sense!

Gets me wondering what is coming up as this is day 3 of strong censorship on YouTube again. I didn't comment earlier as I figure sometimes there might just be a lull in folks posting but this is unlikely. If you've been following that with what I've shown over the last few days, you'll find the following news below to be less informative as they portray Russia being the cause of the latest escalation. There is no proof of this while the Ukraine forces are attacking full force and setting new kill records along the way.

- CNN: claim Russia is further promoting this conflict https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPt-XDscXcI
listen to the wording as they try to impress that the situation has changed lately when it hasn't from Russia's standpoint. To me this instead suggests that something big is likely about to happen.

- Young Turks: profess Russia is behind this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q45fmovk5Mw
I must mention that none put visual proof to confirm any equipment has crossed the border. OSCE now has drone surveillance 24/7( with night vision technology)along with aerial reconnaissance and satellite imagery. Yet not a single piece of evidence is presented. I showed a repair facility earlier that the rebels had which could easily have supplied this armada in question. Is Russia is going to invade with just 32 tanks? when they have 13,000 last count http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces

- Russia is flexing it's muscle? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar20ldz7Uj4
Another video overall professing that Russia is about to attack. I can't counterbalance any of this with alternate information as there is none due to obvious censorship.

- You Tube Censorship; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPt-XDscXcI
seems some folks are finding a new way to overcome censorship. Now I'm not following this link further as I don't usually post from them as a source because they appear to one-sided and that would get prom quickly annoyed. But I present this link just to show that a censorship ban is back in play once again.

I'd hoped that things might calm down for the winter as Putin even agreed to send the west oil so that wouldn't be cause for further aggression. The west professes that Russia has broken the Minsk agreement and yet produce not 1 ounce of proof of such an act. Instead the west now breaks it in what appears to be setting up for an all out frontal attack....yet once again, Russia does nothing....maybe their sleeping?

Why don't they just show us some irrefutable proof for once so we can believe them!

- Why Does the EU hate Democracy? http://www.opednews.com/articles/Why-does-the-European-Unio-by-Michael-Collins-Democracy_Donetsk_Elections_European-Union-141103-280.html
a decent argument that asks many of the same questions I ask..like if they are voting, does that not mean they too are a democratic society? Why is the west elections fair and the east not?

- Press TV: Ukraine accuses OSCE of passing information to rebels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL679sPRqt4

- French 24: debate as to superpower standoff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXwtsKtZEl0
debate consists of German, US , French, Russian and Ukraine panel. They explain the cold war tactics are back and in play, an interesting debate. One member was an observer for the Ukraine elections and stated that organizations were aggressively threatening voters outside of Kiev.

One of the reasons to post here on a daily basis is to show the progression of war and thus maybe it's effects can be better understood. So why would the movement of just 80 military vehicles(for a remaining population of 6 million people) be considered a major threat to the west?

Is not every news agency that promotes such escalation to crisis proportions to then justify a NATO response to react, not also guilty of conspiracy to create a world war event?

I seem to now listen carefully to every uttered word that these news agencies profess. I can often find that the paraphrasing is cautiously prepared to suggest a specific line of thought but so worded that they can deny all allegations if later confronted. Now the nice thing about YouTube is you can replay the message over and over to confirm such suspicions. Example below:

BBC News: OSCE warns of further escalation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taRrQJc-gyo
they claim footage was taken in the east on Monday and shows the rebel buildup. But here is that exact same footage from before and presented on Saturday which shows this to therefore be a lie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq1iBchjVFk So this makes me believe that there is no buildup other than the normal troop movement. So who is promoting various news agencies to put such lies on the web?

Now I come across this kind of stuff daily and rarely do I go back and search for what I recognize from earlier searches such as this. I expect this misleading crap from small unknown authors but am disgusted when it is a supposed reliable source. I have also found Routers to commit such things now and then. I took awhile to figure out that Press TV News Video (Iran News) is legit while Press TV is not affiliated in any way to them. I expect this crap from Ukraine Today and CNN, but their agendas are also obvious.

Again, there is little else to post otherwise as the imposed censorship makes this a one sided affair once again. Yet the comments made form various countries in the above French 24 debate shows not all EU nations side the initiatives being set by EU and NATO. And when they allow such media to be presented on the nations networks, this in turn shows their people that even their governments are undecided at this point. Not a good sign if NATO is set on confrontation.

Still little to work with as censorship in keeping things limited but heres what I have got...

- Vice News: sentenced to death by a crowd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV70uDYUqlc
witness the new legal system that the rebels presently have. I guess we missed the earlier accusations of such criminal activity but it's nice that a US newsman can give us the scoop still.

- Vice News: firefighters in Donetsk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMKmL9nwOPA
learn how they function with the constant shelling from Ukraine. Note who they say is doing the shelling?

- Ukraine Today: proclaim Russia's buildup on their border is a major threat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EywjSbJfzo
So UN has an emergency meeting to discuss Russian buildup. Anyone consider that they may be nervous of the Ukraine attacks which have been commencing as of late?

- US defends Ukraines shelling violations https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbSeueJWQI8
now you have to wonder why the US keeps her on board as she is so bad at covering things up

- Euro News: Poroshenko states that Russia has invaded Ukraine as they shot down a OCSE drone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1od81wiutZo
Good, then why don't they finally prove Russia's crossing finally as all drones have real time live footage. This admission further proves that OSCE have drones in use as they claimed in past videos...so where is even a smidgeon of proof showing this crossing? Does this not seem pretty damning testimony considering no one produces and real evidence to substantiate any of these claims? And how many days now have Russians been supposedly building up inside their borders and still no satellite, radar, drone or jet has captured anything?

What does this thread have to do with prepping...and in the health section in particular?

Isn't there an off topic or conspiracy section on the forum?

What does this thread have to do with prepping...and in the health section in particular?

Isn't there an off topic or conspiracy section on the forum?

I always wonder if I should continue this thread when individuals come in and show their dislike. Then I look at the views the thread receives and this is the only thing that makes me plod on...

My intent as stated many times to is wake folks up as to the manipulation tactics used by our media to condone various governments actions. The media is a strong weapon which invades and bombards our sense daily until you too believe the lie being presented. The only weapon I use to hopefully sway people's opinions on such as this is logic. I have read much on the subject of psychology as it has been an interest of mine for many years(as is philosophy too).

Having been brainwashed (more or less) by our own military has left definite impression upon the way I see things. Likely others who served understand this better as they too then walked the same path. I think the good part of such an experience is that many of us are likely now less susceptible to being played in such a way again. They managed to instill paranoia's which in turn motivated me to at least try to better understand them so I could maybe turn them on and off as needed. In doing so, I started reading on how such means were applied to acquire this state of mind.

This whole thread is a lesson showing every day aspects of such manipulations through the use of our daily media. I don't try to sell you on a concept....I show you FACTS and then let you ponder awhile as it seems to contradict that which you are being bombarded with daily. I know this is a slow process as I must first create doubt in you as to the reliability of your present perception of events around you. Once you start challenging the media instead of just swallowing their pill, your eyes finally start seeing past the illusions they present daily and you too then start asking the same question I do....

I don't know how many are asking those questions as yet but I do see that this thread receives alot of views and so I plod on....

What does this thread have to do with prepping...and in the health section in particular?

Isn't there an off topic or conspiracy section on the forum?

I don't know how many are asking those questions as yet but I do see that this thread receives alot of views and so I plod on....

omg....i just view it cause i get automatic emails notifying me of it. Its from IPN so I just automatically log on. If I knew you interpreted that as actual interest I wouldve stopped.

I will be more careful in logging on through email notifications on a topic.

Now that really hurt! 😥 It also suggests that you don't ever challenge any of the issues I put forth. It must be nice to still fully believe that one's government has your welfare at heart! That they are only spending our taxes in the pursuit of peaceful resolutions and backing just dictators...I mean leaders.

Why not explain to a misguided individual such as myself how the continuous shelling of cities will bring about peace as I somehow can't see the logic? How come all the dead are in the east only and yet when the peoples there say the shells are coming from the west, we are told the rebels do it. Those silly people in the east must simply be wrong EVERY DAY!

I show how soldiers admit surrendering to the rebels and even showing their explanations as to why they did it. The evidence is irrefutable and constant! The lies are obvious to any who are willing to listen as the efforts to hide them properly are few. I even show those few US reporters that still challenge these proclamations and yet you ignore them too. Either you don't even watch just a few of the links I present or you are incapable of trying on a different pair of shoes just to see how they feel over that which you wear daily!

Much is often in the name...irony makes me ask why you selected yours to be TheCrownsOwn anyways? (The irony lies in the aspect that you could just add a D to the end and it would transform meaning further...) It was meant to portray yourself as somewhat of a government authority in the choosing, yes?

Knuckle,

All Im saying is that the thread started off as a topic related to Health...and then 9 pages of your commentary and interpretation of news segments that really dont deal with the op. Does it still belong in the health topic section...

I dont have any right to silence you nor should I. I re read my last post and it sounds abraisive. In fact when i re read it, it sounded kind of rude, and that wasnt what I meant to do. Im sorry for that. It wasnt meant to come accross mean. I wrote it to quick running out to do something and should have spent more time thinking about it. I get this is a hot topic for you, but maybe just move it to the off topic section.

Im probably one of those sheeple out there to be honest. I can accept that. Im just asking out of all the posts you make on Russia, etc. perhaps sound off in the off topic section. Actually you would hit a broader section of possible interest than just the health section where maybe not everyone roams. Leave the health section to topics on health.

I started this thread as a lesson on what it states...the power of suggestion! There are only so many major categories to choose from, so I am sorry if my selection wasn't as befitting as you'd like. It would be hard to change this course now and I still don't see a category that is better defined to relocate it. Also I don't think that can be done unless and admin moves it either.

I figure that you might perceive it to be more of a war topic, but that is also likely due to your not really following the storyline too closely. The plot is about how today's media is but a tool used by those higher up to manipulate us. The Ukraine crisis is the prime example to show how the media is used to sway a democratic society into supporting military actions that have nothing to do with democracy and alot to do with fascism. It's this aspect that many here aren't likely comfortable with but it exists just the same.

You don't agree? Then show me how our actions will free Ukraine and make it democratic. Their new police chief is a major leader of the Nazi party. They are drafting their people to kill their own countrymen. Even the east isn't doing that and they are heavily outnumbered. It isn't a war, it's a slaughter and anyone really watching can see that. Yet we support the west because we are told to.

I have tried to separate the analyzing of the Ukraine conflict to this thread and the situational facts about the conflict to the Ukraine hunger thread. It is hard to sometimes choose which is the better place to show one aspect without crossing the line with analysis along the way. That said, I'd hate to have to continually try to meet such criteria as it seems somewhat of a minor detail that should be able to be overlooked without too much effort really... and there is enough of a psychology aspect here to thus proclaim it as an issue of mental health.

Seems much is going on these days while censorship is high on the web...

Preparing for the G20 Summit

- Euro News: G20 summit in Australia starts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR453KwPVOM

- seems Harper even started the show against Putin https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=092bawDptA4
atta boy Stevie...show him yer kittie claws...

- Ukraine Today: shows Australia threatens Russian intervention https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Gw82W6Qtpc
You get the feeling that they want to impose more sanctions? Russia still hasn't done anything but they claims state they do have up to 8000 troops along their border. Claims in may were at 15,000 and some had mentioned double that...so what's the problem?

- Ukraine Today; their ready for Russian Invasion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKza2-lUnr8
just showing you again how bad a news agency this is

- South front: How about some rebel news on whats happening? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcf0Exg0rPg
amateur but still shows the oppositions perspective

- RT News: trip to the front lines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eKfDMqRTHo
I'm guessing that Russia gave them warm camo-clothing to fight in but notice they don't get bullet proof vests and helmets? And it's not like they have large numbers to outfit as the west does... Before Russia would send in troops and tanks that would cost lots and cause lots of trouble , It'd be far cheaper just to try to keep more rebels alive with simple things such as these, yes?

If NATO or the UN really wished Russia to relax, then they too should simply do the same. But instead they continue to promote Ukraine to attack their own people and are rewarded by the EU for doing so.

Facts:

- If Ukraine quit shelling the east and all would be resolved.

- Ukraine started to build up troops along the front lines immediately after their elections and proclaim it is because Russia is about to attack.

- all major news agencies proclaim that Russia is advancing with wording such as this "If this crossing into Ukraine is confirmed it would be further evidence of Russia's aggression and direct involvement in destabilizing Ukraine." ( this really means nothing is confirmed)

- placing doubts as to Russia's intentions thus affects talks at the G20 summit and allows the EU to impose more sanctions designed to weaken Russia's economy further.

I don't think that we are going to see a peaceful resolution to any of this. I think that the UN is determined crush Russia and this will eventually escalate into another world war. You can see all the hallmarks of such intentions by noting such actions with what I present. But I guess that you still have to look at such evidence first before you can see the signs are there foretelling of what we should expect!