wow
what a derogatory tirade against men, please keep going on the men bashing or would you like to add me into your Man bashing agenda.

if this was directed against Women or a Woman, you would be banned and this post deleted
but.. please since it is obviously directed against anything you might consider manly, please continue from your Doily covered table where your weapon of choice is the keyboard, reaching out to the unwashed masses of MEN that have harmed you or of course in your mind been derogatory towards you.

some is right, but lets face it, prepping, survivalism, self sufficiency is more than just planting seeds, making curtains or cupboards but, I digress, please on with the Male bashing that you seem to thrive on in this post.

EDIT: you edited your post to make it more palatable, and less Men degrading, OK good for you
and to ALL late comers who did not see the original Tirade!

Blackwater wannabees eat their dead.

They also make fun of my timber jacks.

Also beware of those looters that have trained as a team and have former experience. Certain members of the Brass Horde are more dangerous than you let on.

HAHAHA. Oh come on Wild E....buddy. You missed the fun...and self reflective aspect. I can assure you that I have All the same Toys and am about as Butch as they come, including the cowboy hat....besides the 4x4 truck on my lawn that I am pretty sure will never run again and is bound for Parts...and I am a little slack on gun cleaning. Im also poking fun at myself, especialy as I age and look back at many of my unproductive preps. Its all about priorities. Im reading "the Disaster Diaries" at the moment and I am still humming and hawing about whether I can recomend it. Ive picked up some tricks from it but on the whole, its still the same ADVERTURE stratagy. I beleive we have to get past the whole Rambo thing. My 15 years of Martial arts training is becoming less and less realistic or usefull as I decline and with it, My ultimate bad ass stratagie. Im sticking with my guns on this...But I am a big enough man to think on your point and leave it for consideration. Are you willing to consider why it made you so angry. Im still always goin to apreciate your posts

ok

Thanks WR. You are a better man than I. "I" have a tendency to fume over things for weeks. Clearly I fume for Months. That rant was directed at the Duche (last fall) that wrote the whole eye liner bashing and fantasising about beating up people that were weeker than him post(cuz thats what real men do). If anything, Im alittle embarased that I didnt call him out and hop on a plane.(I couldnt afford it at the time anyhow, solar pannels and all. Besides the wife is pretty good at reading me and would have killed me. Ha) I was even more dissapointed at the lack of brass ones on this site that doggy behavior agreed with him instead of calling him the cowardly waist of humanity that he was. The whole, evil florishes when good men do nothing, thing. That rant in the post is my way of publicly apologising for being too busy (and enraged) to say any thing. I hope we are good

Most of his rant was against bad prepper planing based solely on "I'm going to steal and loot whatever I need."

What the thread sould be is " when is looting acceptable?"

In my opinion is should Never Ever be Plan A
The reason why is. Total SHTF is going to be rare. Most disasters are localized, once the government comes in to clean up you had better belive anyone doing even petty looting is going to be delt with harshly. If you did larger theft with a gun, you might as well kiss your freedom goodby and hope your cell mate isn't too lonely.

99.99% of the time you are going to need your preps are going to be minor disaster, or personal problems.
Hers some good examples.
You lost your job and have to work part time, or at a job that pays half as much. You are probably going to face the problem of pay you bills or buy groceries. All that food stored up just became very handy
Example 2: similar to the first, a family member ends up in the hospital, now you have medical bills eating up every free penny. Yay for prepping!
3: water pipeline to your neighborhood breaks, the city says you'll be a week without water. You had better belive local grocery stores will run out fast. The city will bring water trucks, but do you want to carry gallons of water in pales to your home (my parents had this scenario and one similar happen)
4: Deep snowfall/ bridge out: you are now compleatly isolated with no chance of bugging out, you had better hope you have a food supply.( This happened in my city a couple years back, we had a big dump of snow and some neighborhoods were compleatly isolated for over a week, not even SUVs had a chance of escaping untill the snowplows arrived)

Finally we have bigger disasters such as floods, fires, tornados etc which are common. It's a good idea to plan for these or whatever you high risk disasters are in your area.

Now to looting. In these cases if you have prepped you won't need to resort to looting. Lets use the snowed in scenario, your only resort to looting would be your nieghbors who weren't at home at the time you got blocked in, I would hate to have to resort to that unless it was life or death, even then relations would be strained afterwards.

In a mega disaster where there's a high death count, it's been weeks since there was any sign of rescue. Even your preps have run dry. That's when I belive salvaging is apropriate. Note I said salvaging not looting, you are going to be looking for properties that have been outright abandoned, or their owners are dead.
These properties are going to be dangerous, wether by structural damage from the disaster, abandoned animals who may not be friendly, wild animals who are looking for easy food just as you are, or biological hazard. Floods will contaminate the water, in homes whatever chemicals were loosely stored are now floating around, sewage has backed up, bodies of humans or animals are now a huge hazard in any mega disaster, you are now in a biological war zone, where any scape can be deadly.
Plus you have to deal with other hungry humans, who will eye a healthy looking prepper as someone who doesn't need the food as much as they do.
Looting/salvaging should always be a last resort behind all of your other preps

This topic makes my blood boil. Stocking up on guns and bullets so that you can loot something that belongs to someone else does not makes you a prepper. You are no better then the $#1? heads that started the mess in the first place.

I prep to survive and live my life as normal as possible. Somewhere in the uncertain future there must be the rule of law, or the law of the land, or homemade justice.

If you plan on visiting/looting me after the SHTF, I would suggest that you phone first to avoid any unnecessary misunderstandings.

HTP

I have been known to liberate the odd object in the past. Not so much since I have grown older or wiser. When I was young, there were many deserted homesteads scattered about. I suspect it was the start of the decline of the family farm.But that's another topic... Anyway, many of these places appeared that the people had just up and left! What couldn't get loaded into the car or truck was simply left behind. These places I never had a problem picking through and bringing the occasional treasure home.
Fast forward to the present day and a SHTF scenario..... I would not roam my neighbourhood and plunder. I would however keep on top of what's happening around me and if deciding to stay put while everyone is leaving, I would make use of what I could find if I absolutely needed it to survive. I wouldn't however totally trash the place just because I could. If there was no end in sight, and the SHTF was turning into years then I would say my attitude would definitely change. Everything then becomes a storage of something or another, just waiting for the time when I, or another enterprising neighbour from down the road, finds a use for it.

I do agree Lonehowler that for the most part prepping is to get us through the times when "Life Happens" and by doing so makes it a bit easier to get by when the smaller emergencies arrive. I also prefer Salvaging to looting. Different circumstances and purposes!

For the record.... After Cernunnos5's opening shot to this thread I pretty much got what was being said when the scenario of the brass horde was heading to the marina. I was/am still wondering where the real men use the vibrating flashlight and mascara! 😯 but Hey! different strokes!

I do hear that Real Men eat Kisch 😀

Wow, I must be a failure as a man. No truck, cowboy hat or boots, no jewelry or tattoos. I'm ashamed to admit I'm learning to grow my own food instead of planning to steal it.
Maybe because I was raised in the company of men who built things with their hands and cared about their circle of people.

Too much TV, too many Hollyweird movies has taught our young folks their behavior. Real men provide for their families and treat others with respect, not as victims to be beaten.

Thanks LH. Good posting. The magority of your prepping should be for Job loss (if it hasnt hit you yet, it soon will) illness (we like to think we are invicible) divorce (Your chaces are 50/50 no matter what your belif system) and homelesness( If the bank owns it you dont and the three above mean you can lose it in an instant) Most disasters, including ecconomic collapse will likely be regional and not hit everyone equally. (All of the issues will really take an inner toll on a mans view of his own manhood. The sence of self worth really has to be develloped on its own terms and cant be defined either by our stuff...and more hard to take, even our abillities. All can be lost in an instant)
Ive got to make this short as I spent way too much time on the computer yesterday and have alot to catch up on today but...
There is a causionary tale of a well known youtube prepper. He came on to talk to his subscribers. Basicly he said, "Sorry folks but I cant do any more "PREPPING" vidios. I lost my job last month and I cant buy any more guns to do reviews for you. Im going to lose my house this month (He had the big suburban barbi doll dream house in the back ground with the shiny new mondo truck in the driveway) I guess Im going to lose the truck too." He was now " F$$$ed and far from home yet somehow, he was considered a prepping expert. Same thing applies to some preppers during the big powe outage in the US last year. One "PREPPER" didnt have the food to get through the week. Another didnt have the gas to drive to safety. We need a real evaluation of what we consider "Prepping". One of our future considerations is having to deal with ALOT of hungery, well armed, emotionaly unglued preppers. I may Bi##h slap the Gun Prepper...But I sure do need to be Prepared for them.

and Siberious, Yes, My primary survival skill is a Scrounger and recycler and micky mouser. This skill developed when I was dirt poor after losing it all. Thats why I talk on many of the subjects that I do. By the way. We produce alot of eggs...so I am often force fed kisch

Cernunnos5, I believe it is a generational thing that is fast disappearing. I was pretty much in a similar situation as well. If we couldn't make it or trade for it, we did without! We laugh now looking back at the kids excitement when G'ma came to visit with store bought sliced bread! what a treat!!

funny, we were just touching on something like this on our Easter get together, we had gone to the store and got fruit, watermelon, catalope and honeydew and the kids were melting chocolate eggs and dipping in the fruit.. we got talking about the fact that for me at least in winter, we didn't have fresh fruit as a child, that the box of christmas orange was special, and it lead to a talk because we did have fresh fruits in the summer but once the winter apples went, it was all canned, dried or stewed fruits.. rare, very rare to get fresh fruits of any kind in winter..

Ive been wanting to write about looting for the last few years since "coming out" as a prepper and choosing to become a public figure. Not "that" kind of comming out, silly. I assure you I am quite comfortable in my sexuality, thank you, and in being so, I am quite comfortable with OTHER peoples sexuality. That said...I do have some questions about the whole....um.....hem....highly charged, Homo Erotic side of prepping. 😆 You Know... That whole Macho Man Love thang and absolute fascination with all things manly and what it means to be Man and the TOYS, TOYS, TOYS that prove you are desirable to be with other men. You know, The guns, The ever increasing Size of pickup trucks, The quads, weight lifting, UFC sweaty "wrestling", power tools, personal vibrating flashlights, Full on restraining, hang me from the ceiling, Tactical combat gear 😯 .....the cowboy hats 😳 A bunch of Dudes running off into the woods together...hey, Im just saying. 😕 I can just hear The Village People in my head. Lets not forget chest thumping hatred of all things "Girly". It just makes me want to drag out my old EYELINER pencil. I can not begin to tell you the number of women that little stick...and my own bravery, got me(Its a very large number), and besides...It realy is Women that decide what a "Real Man" is and not some Ford or Dodge truck commercial...that was designed to play off your fears and inadequacies to get you enslaved in dept....FOR EVER

😆 I knew there was a reason you found that vest picture

😆 I knew there was a reason you found that vest picture

Yes, Ive got one of those Johnny Cash stories. "I went out is search of experience. To taist and to touch and to feel as much as a man can before he repents". I guess my violent side that must always be kept in full controle does stem from "Life aint easy with a name like Sue". I guess, Ill always have a soft spot for Oldschool Goths. Betty Page doos, PVC and leather...and corsets. Yum. Goth chicks are hot. But it really was the Music. All of the modern music we enjoy stems back directly or indirectly to to Joy Division and the Manchester Scene. From Industreal to skater punk, from hip hop to trance, from techno to grunge. I explored every subculture that I could. That why my range is so diverse. Ive known loggers and river runners that said FU and hid thier black kiyaks from CSIS for burning bridges. Ive known missionaries and mercinaries, drug growers and dealers, Bikers and drag queens, theology proffesors and crusty gutter punks, dredlocked rastafakians and hippycrits, Train Hoppers and rock climbers, Black Block and ex aryan nations, first nations and sihks, socialist revolutionaries and christian reconstructionist. Tantric sex teaches and movie prop makers, MMA fight promoters and the Gardian Angels, real cowboys and lesbian seperatists, US special forces and junkies. #1 and # 2 position of the single bravest individuals I have ever met....were both rally short hippies, One was a mechanic that followed The Dead around and had a penchant for Blues in the Black side of Detroit. Last time I saw him, he was being hauled away by the cops. God he was fun. Two was this adventurous litttle lesbian that lived in a tent most of the year. Her last adventure that had me realizing that I couldnt touch her for toughness, had her having to tie herself onto the back of a train incase she fell asleep and fell off in the mountains with her tent wrapped around her to fight off hypothermia. Ive had to escape from SWAT teams and been teargased by riot police, punched in the back of the head by a 300+ pound enforcer for an organised crime group that was later arrested for murder and extortion, slept under a bridge in East LA dodging bangers, survived 2 attemps on my life.....the list goes on. Lately I hang with organic farmers, private bar owners and university profs. You know that chinese curse," May you live an interesting life". I dont think much about those complaining about losing thier freedom. Its not like they were using it anyway. HA.
Through it all, since childhood, Ive been a survivalist. Its my subculture. Its nice to finaly meet some other ones.

OK. Back to looting. I want to leave this topic in the hands of the posters as I will be away for a few days. What to you is ethical looting. There is an, emergency first responder joke that goes around..."Its not looting...if you leave a note"