Thanks Farmgal. Im glad you took the time to think about it for a wile and wrestled with your comments. I dont need people to tell me how fantabulous I am. I would far more like someone to think I was a jerk but then chew over the point I was trying to get across for 6 months . Also, Like me, I know you live in farm land. Its not really the Hord that will strip the land. Its my Farming, Hunting, compotent neibours that already know the area that will strip the woods when they cant just run the pickup to the store. They already hunt here...or at least they did once apon a time and are now motivated. Normal hunting usualy takes out a third.

I imagine many of us are hoping that if it is a low-probability/high-impact event that destroys the rule of law, then the die-off will be so massive that there simply won't be many hunters of any kind left after 3-6 weeks. Once the food on hand is cleared and the ruffians/bandits steal from the weak who didn't hide themselves and run out of that food... what will be left?

Are we talking survival rates of 1 in 10 or 1 in 100? Depends on the nature of the event I suppose. If it is bad (loss of vehicles as well as the powergrid) then I imagine the wild animals will be doing just fine... 😥

I cant think of many events that would take out 99% without taking 100%.(the Black Death only took about half of Europe) If hundreds of abandoned nuclear reactores started spuing material that cant be extinguished....lack of plentifull wildlife will be the least of our wories I can think of 0% of events where even the breakdown of law would translate to a lemming like suicide pact where everyone agrees to shoot each other to death till there are too few LaMOEs (thats Last man on earth types) to find each other to continue battling to the last man. If only one percent survives..thats still over 5 million people ghosting around North America....but like I said, those people probably wouldnt want to come above ground if they didnt half to. Like I also said, I try to addapt myself to the senareo I see comming. I dont try to addapt the senario to what I hope to happen

Call me naive but I didn't get the "long pork" joke in your first post, Cern5. Unfortunately I googled it, and I hope it never comes to that. Especially if you think processed food and factory raised meat is full of hormones, antibiotics and toxins imagine an animal(us) raised on that. We are a million miles from organic grain fed. I imagine long pork would be as dangerous as poorly preserved meat. Things the Donner party didn't worry about! Best you could hope for is an alcoholic, they'd be partially preserved already. And I know If I were wandering through the woods collecting food and I stumbled across a group of very hungry looking people, I wouldn't be long letting them know I had syphilis. Hopefully they wouldn't want to either eat me or do unspeakable things to me in that passenger side of the car. At least the cannibals would be recognizable, the men would have breasts and the women would have Adam's apples from the hormones and they wouldn't have any flies trying to bite them.

One site suggested a long pork feast was a secret agenda of the Mormons. Which explains a lack of black, jewish and gay preppers, apparently they must leave a bitter taste. so preppers get your yamaka out or come out the closet, if you see a hungry LDS hoard coming down the road.

Very funny. Im trying to picture what an LDS hoard looks like. I picture a halloween episode. The secret reason mormons have opened the cannery to non LDS. PSSST. Thats not TVP in the #10 can.....but it sure is tender. "Pa, please pass the protestant."

Yes, the official LDS rules apparently dropped the 7 years of food to just 1 year. Possible reasons: 1) the leader (prophet) see a shorter catastrophe 2) they taken a hard look and realized obesity rates are above average within the church, ie they'll last 7 years on one year of food 3) they realized obesity rate are high outside the church too(wink wink long pork feast). And just to be extra prepper paranoid - in case there are LDS spies tracking this forum, making a "guest" list for the feast. I'm gay, I drink tons of caffeine, and alcohol so I would taste awful!

Well, fun is fun but lets leave the LDS alone. Most belief systems have their good points and their bad points. You know I dont tolerate such things. Lets remember the good parts and the mass of expertise they have shared with us preppers. The magic underwear is realy side splitting funny but thank you, to any mormons out there that have freely shared your knowledge....as well as any alcohol and caffein marinated gay preppers out there....Mmm. Marinated prepper.....Doh!

For sure, don't misunderstand, nothing against LDS. Just not my cup of tea.

This one sure took some thought...
I wonder how many hunters are from the city?
My guess would be quite a few...they have the guns and SOME ammo, but maybe not access to the land to hunt on...
Many of them simply rent a few acres from some farmer with a deer population issue and spend their 1 week to 10 days in tree stands, sometimes bagging a deer or moose or something.
These hunters will first of all, have to be able to get to the hunting property, and will tend to go somewhere familiar, where they may have had success before.
If they do get lucky, they will have to defend against other hunters who were not so lucky and simply decide to take their kill.
Keep in mind that these hordes will be leaving the city for one reason...there is nothing left there. This means they will already be hungry when they leave and will have little if anything in the way of supplies. I doubt many of them will survive to be able to leave in the first place, as so many people will be thinking that government help is just around the corner.
The hunters that really have to be worried about are the ones that are already out in the country and live on or very near the hunting ground.
They know the terrain, where the game is and isn't, and will likely be more successful at bagging wildlife.
Also, they will be more skilled in butchering and preserving so less waste will mean less need to kill off the wildlife.
I think that these hordes will be more of a danger to semi rural farmers...If you had to walk for 3 or 4 days without any real supplies, a small dairy farm would seem like an endless supply of food...likely the hordes will kill most of each other off taking over these farms and become less of a danger to those that are further into the rural landscape.
Hunting is not as easy as you think, and after 3 or 4 days of not seeing a deer or moose, that rabbit, porcupine, skunk, whatever, will look mighty appetizing.
Personally, I just don't think that there will be that many people who would be able to reach the wildlife rich areas, and those that do, simply won't be able to put that much of a dent into the game supply.

For sure, don't misunderstand, nothing against LDS. Just not my cup of tea.

I take it that would be caffeinated Tea. ha

Ok, lets stear this post back towards survival hunting. Most anti hunting folks dont get that hunters are usualy the big conservationists. They are the ones that see the numbers up close. Unfortunately, conservation isnt going to be on the mind of desperate people.
I dug this up today. Its a six hour adio book of World War Z. Fantastic, Fun Book. The reason I bring it up is the 2hour and 37minit mark. A chapter about a family fleeing north. Its a wonderfull fictional account of what I am talking about.
Thats 2:37:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIhpOPJ2sXc

This one sure took some thought...
I wonder how many hunters are from the city?
My guess would be quite a few...they have the guns and SOME ammo.

Thanks Denob. Its been 2 weeks since the post and long since off the portal and people are just now trickling in. Thats fantastic because it meens people are realy thinking about it. Youve probably noticed that Im "That Guy". The one that doesnt toe the party line. Its not to prove how smart I am. My personal skill seems to be the ability to see what will go wrong with a plan. I figure that if I say my mind, It might save a life or two...sort of as thanks to those that have shared their knowledge over the decades.
As for the dumb sheeple not being able to make it......I wouldnt count out the tenaciousness of people. The whole,"Run for Your Lives, Escape from New York, Jason Bourn and Dies The Fire" is a big part of the cultural mythos. Escape to the hills, adventurism. We are not as exclusive as we think we are. I think there will be alot of people that are ahead of the crowd that will be arriving with a pickup , some canned goods and an only half thought out plan, at best.
Just to mix things up, Im going to contradict mysef to give alittle more to think about. A freind of mine once criticised the whole "golden hoard" theory (As opposed to the Brass and Gas Hoard. I love that we have a name for that now. It had been sitting in the back of my head for a wile now but I didnt have a name for it to give it solid form. Thanks Gravlore). He pointed out that in famines or poverty, the country folks swarm into the cities looking for help. Thats just something more to add to the mental popcorn. I know wile everyone is running from the city, My plan is to leave the armed Mrs here with one dog, attach the trailer to the hatch back and take the second dog into town (Its a small city so Im not worried about getting stuck there) The plan is to be able to perchase whatever is still available, with whatever extra cash I have or could get, wile people will still taking money. I want to be the first camping out at the bank for whatever small amount they alow to leave the bank. The main perchases are, as much gas as I can carry before they run out...and animal feed. I dont think it will be the first store people think of. Animal grade wheat and corn are also human edible, as well as food for the chickens. Lets not forget dogfood. I need there ears and noses working. Stay and store with friends in town till everyone is ready to move supplies.
I wouldnt be suprised if a heck of alot of people clue in and "Run For the Hills" doing anything possible to get there...before starving in the wilderness and becoming other peoples problem

I wouldnt be suprised if a heck of alot of people clue in and "Run For the Hills" doing anything possible to get there...before starving in the wilderness and becoming other peoples problem

I can see that, however i think it would wear off quickly, if you dont have supplies already there and arent knowlegeable you wouldnt last long! My Opinion obviously!
I Think here in NS were pretty lucky we have an abbundance of available food, the ocean is right at our doorstep! I think Alot of us will be Praising Fisherman If the SHTF, theres so much the ocean offers, its great to be by the sea! that is unless a tidal wave comes, Thats the unfortunate part ! Point is theres lots of options here, im sure wild game will take a beating but here we have so many choices and Catching fish be it nets or whatever, is alot more viable then hunting IMO, as long as you have the gear anyways( or find some abbandoned). Pointing that out ultimately leads us to shortage of shellfish maybe ? they are pretty easy to collect after all. Just some thoughts

Kick off the seal hunt again. Too many of those buggers anyhow.

Yah they sure do eat alot of fish, but you know its not politically correct to kill seals because their warm and cuddly right ? lol

I Think here in NS were pretty lucky we have an abbundance of available food, the ocean is right at our doorstep! I think Alot of us will be Praising Fisherman If the SHTF, theres so much the ocean offers

from POM

Yes. You will notice I moved from one ocean to the other(even though the ocean freezes here). The rest of the continent is one big dead zone to me. I never felt comfortable any time I lived away from it...even though I never much liked being on boats(puke). Note to self 'Im still short of a canoe or kiyak. Unfortunatly, most of the local areas I identify as Clam beds also have sewage draining from rural homes and have big toxic sighns. Bigger prob if abandoned infrastructure starts spewing crap and chemicals...or radiation. Double unfortunatly, Ocean acidification is just starting to kill off the plancton, The boton of the food chain. I wonder at what point the system collapses on its own. Hopefully not in my life...but soon. The next concern is now that in water tests, there is now more plastic particles in the water than plancton. Yikes.

Speaking of wich, Im looking for a Smelt gill net to set on the shore at sunset. They dont seem to fish that way here but I learned alittle from watching the Potugese, Chinese and Italian old men on the other coast. The good news is that those fish are young so they havent had the years to accumulate toxic levels of heavy metals. If anyone knows where to get one, let me know

Oh C5 your such a bundle of joy 😀 lol, You could always make a gill net thats inside work! Just another thing added to the list eh.