I hope you realize that to develop virgin land into your kind of vision will take at least 20 - 30 years or million dollars. Talking from experience trust me.
hope you have the money or time and power.
Henry

I hope you realize that to develop virgin land into your kind of vision will take at least 20 - 30 years or million dollars. Talking from experience trust me.
hope you have the money or time and power.
Henry

Wow, thank you I had no idea. I wish I had more time to chat with you and your wife on this subject back in the summer. I am sure you could teach me a lot. I know logically that at times my dreams are not always realistic and often set myself up to fail. I was going to do the building the "cheap" way with recycled materials hoping to reduce the costs.

I have not priced out things like a cistern, well, permit costs, and the risk of having to pay income tax if I build a place first then sell this home.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dreams are only dreams until you research. I think once you actually start pricing all those components of your dream, you'll quickly realize that the bubble pops and reality comes crashing down, hard.

Now, i don't think that means your plans have to be abandoned, just altered to better reflect reality.

A couple examples:

* Using recycled building goods - there's an entire industry that has popped up around recycled building wares. Nobody is just tossing usable lumber, good copper, electrical wiring, glass, etc in a dumpster or on a curbside any more. Those items are taken to depots where homeowners and contractors are given a fair $, and the items are resold to consumers at a fair $. I could be wrong, but i don't think you would EVER get enough recycled goods to build one substantial home, let alone a dozen.

Alternatives - Learn to build with logs. Invest in a portable sawmill that can handle 30ft logs, which gives you the ability to roughly build 24'x24' cabins. If you've got the tree resources, you could easily build single and double story cabins for all. It's an essentially "free" resource, if you've purchased the right property. Cuts down on MANY costly materials such as weatherproofing, insulation, etc.
It also becomes a source of income for the group as you can mill lumber for your neighbours and greater community.

- Learn to build with logs pt 2. Learn stackwall or cordwood construction. If you bought land that had recently been harvested of timber, you can still use your own onsite small lumber to build all your homes with this ancient technique. Modern mixtures of sealant and mortar will see these types of buildings last for 200+ yrs, if constructed properly (ie: big roof overhang to protect walls from elements, safe & dry foundation).

* Infrastructure - Wells, cisterns, grain storage, heavy equipment, etc... these are all very expensive things to source, transport and construct, etc. There's just simply no way to cheaply and dependably acquire them. It's better to make your plans around an accurate/average cost to purchase and then enjoy the windfall IF you manage to source one really cheap.

*Legalities - Your dream involves many people. The people you attract to be part of your community, the neighbours who impact your community and visa versa and all the providers/sellers of the items and materials you'll need, the government officials you'll have to appease, etc.
It is absolutely imperative you retain a very good lawyer. One who will protect not only you and your vision, but everyone involved with sound advice and great legal support. You'll need someone who isn't afraid to dust it up with municipal elected representatives who may take a stance against your community for whatever reason. You'll need someone who can keep your taxes VERY low, as that is one expense i can see ballooning beyond your wildest dreams.

I'm big on warnings and reality checks, but only because I've met too many folks who've leaped before they looked... I used to work in media sales. There was a point when i was beginning to let my attire slip, dressing the way that many of my clients dressed in their workplaces, in an attempt to relate with them better. My sales mentor pulled me aside one day and asked me what I was thinking. She gave me a little verbal slap and said "People are paying you to be an expert. They are expecting you to present an air of confidence and competence. They expect you to dress the part. They want to know that their hard earned income is in good hands and you're going to make it work even harder for them."

Obviously, clothes aren't going to help your project, but a solid plan with dotted i's and crossed t's and fact-checked financials, will. People will come to you because they have concerns for their future and questions on how to limit the negative impact of world changing events. YOU will be their "expert". As such, You will attract far more qualified and genuinely interested individuals/families with a $15K-$20K buy-in and a solid plan that justifies the costs, than you will with an ill-formed dream and a $2000 buy-in.

I guarantee it.

I hope you realize that to develop virgin land into your kind of vision will take at least 20 - 30 years or million dollars. Talking from experience trust me.
hope you have the money or time and power.
Henry

Hi Henry: Yes, it could well be a million-dollar project, and/or variable combo of time/money. I can't imagine how i would rather use the time i have...for the benefit of those to follow.
I've initiated/participated in this direction before now and don't intend to stop.
I've been inspired by many examples over the years and by your own brief shared life-story not long ago. Thanks for that!
I look fwd to sharing more if/when i live closer 🙂

...villager

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Dreams are only dreams until you research. I think once you actually start pricing all those components of your dream, you'll quickly realize that the bubble pops and reality comes crashing down, hard.

Now, i don't think that means your plans have to be abandoned, just altered to better reflect reality.

A couple examples:

* Using recycled building goods - there's an entire industry that has popped up around recycled building wares. Nobody is just tossing usable lumber, good copper, electrical wiring, glass, etc in a dumpster or on a curbside any more. Those items are taken to depots where homeowners and contractors are given a fair $, and the items are resold to consumers at a fair $. I could be wrong, but i don't think you would EVER get enough recycled goods to build one substantial home, let alone a dozen.

Alternatives - Learn to build with logs. Invest in a portable sawmill that can handle 30ft logs, which gives you the ability to roughly build 24'x24' cabins. If you've got the tree resources, you could easily build single and double story cabins for all. It's an essentially "free" resource, if you've purchased the right property. Cuts down on MANY costly materials such as weatherproofing, insulation, etc.
It also becomes a source of income for the group as you can mill lumber for your neighbours and greater community.

- Learn to build with logs pt 2. Learn stackwall or cordwood construction. If you bought land that had recently been harvested of timber, you can still use your own onsite small lumber to build all your homes with this ancient technique. Modern mixtures of sealant and mortar will see these types of buildings last for 200+ yrs, if constructed properly (ie: big roof overhang to protect walls from elements, safe & dry foundation).

* Infrastructure - Wells, cisterns, grain storage, heavy equipment, etc... these are all very expensive things to source, transport and construct, etc. There's just simply no way to cheaply and dependably acquire them. It's better to make your plans around an accurate/average cost to purchase and then enjoy the windfall IF you manage to source one really cheap.

*Legalities - Your dream involves many people. The people you attract to be part of your community, the neighbours who impact your community and visa versa and all the providers/sellers of the items and materials you'll need, the government officials you'll have to appease, etc.
It is absolutely imperative you retain a very good lawyer. One who will protect not only you and your vision, but everyone involved with sound advice and great legal support. You'll need someone who isn't afraid to dust it up with municipal elected representatives who may take a stance against your community for whatever reason. You'll need someone who can keep your taxes VERY low, as that is one expense i can see ballooning beyond your wildest dreams.

I'm big on warnings and reality checks, but only because I've met too many folks who've leaped before they looked... I used to work in media sales. There was a point when i was beginning to let my attire slip, dressing the way that many of my clients dressed in their workplaces, in an attempt to relate with them better. My sales mentor pulled me aside one day and asked me what I was thinking. She gave me a little verbal slap and said "People are paying you to be an expert. They are expecting you to present an air of confidence and competence. They expect you to dress the part. They want to know that their hard earned income is in good hands and you're going to make it work even harder for them."

Obviously, clothes aren't going to help your project, but a solid plan with dotted i's and crossed t's and fact-checked financials, will. People will come to you because they have concerns for their future and questions on how to limit the negative impact of world changing events. YOU will be their "expert". As such, You will attract far more qualified and genuinely interested individuals/families with a $15K-$20K buy-in and a solid plan that justifies the costs, than you will with an ill-formed dream and a $2000 buy-in.

I guarantee it.

Oddmott, hello...not sure if you were addressing Oldschool's and/or Henry's posts, ..... but regarding my own tentative project, i sure agree with your general cautionary posture, without being deterred from what's possible with the right combo of folks in a process of dis-covering our likemindedness.
You have all valid points . The log-combo cabins are a big part of my vision as well, once there is a sufficiency of pioneers onsite with the basic infrastructure in place.
Until then, i feel it's prudent to do with a number of 4-season mobile units called "tiny house" http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ .This is also a way to assure that at least the substantial investment in a dwelling can be recouped (hauled away) if anything unforeseen/insurmountable occurs or there is a wish to withdraw from the project at any point...(with documented contingency procedure).
There are ample harvestable trees on site (logged 40yrs.ago) for cabins , without jeopardizing the integrity of the whole eco-unit.
Buy-in cost is a matter of (sliding) scale, of course. There is theoretically, room for a few hundred folks, but i have long ago concluded that a minimum of thirty is req'd .
Amongst those will be a variety of skills, and some may have to be hired. There's a fundamental need for, and trust in, the confident ability to assess the most relevant actions to take in such a "permanent dynamic".This would be "collective wisdom" . In this climate of increasing awareness of need for alternate living modalities , only courageous people will clearly see the need and opportunity initially, and then as it begins to manifest sufficiently, enthusiastic critical mass sets in!
For sure , the knowledgeable details need to be documented, i's and t's. Some have been, to outline context, and the rest will be determined by the collaborative core group with greater wisdom than one. This is the most important aspect...which is why there have been relatively few exemplary models.
Why not blend our collective abilities if possible, proposing and listening and doing?
cheers, ....villager (the other henry)

thanks for all comments 🙂

Since I am a perfectionist that stuffs from serve panic/anxiety as well, I have a tendency to over think, over research before I ever take a step.

I don't mean to kill an idea but wont you need a LOT of wood to heat 6-12 homes. I don't think it would be very sustainable to try to heat all those homes off one property. Over a few generations of trees the soil would not grow very good trees thus requiring more wood to be used to get the same btu's, and on it goes. I think Europe used to have forests like Northern Ontario....

There are very few people willing to spend a winter with 6-12 other families but that would really be the wisest option. Not to mention- security. That is what native tribes did for the winter though in their 'Longhouses' As humans, I don't think we will change until it is thrust upon us and we have no other choice. The style of life we have now is an anomaly that is about 75 years old or so. Can you imagine living with your parents and grandparents? Maybe a niece and nephew or two? A bigger house will be much cheaper to build than 12 smaller ones too.

If you really want something like this to work, the 'american dream' of MINE, ME, PERSONAL, PRIVATE, LONE WOLF/SURVIVALIST, will have to be second to what is really best for the survival and happiness of all. Like I said, very few people will change their mindset until they have no other choice. How many generations has it been since it was in the common ethos that no man can do it alone. With todays understanding and easy energy, we can have one man islands but not so under normal, natural conditions. Just consider that there is the same energy in the average tank of gasoline as 4 years of hard labour for a fit, healthy man. Now think about the amount of energy it will take to put away a years worth of food without it. There will be no time or energy for 12 houses to heat, and 12 separate gardens to tend. No one will have the time for that... two are more efficient that one. There were benefits to a large family, and it made sense to live under the same roof too.

Just my thoughts and opinions (based on what I've read in history books on how people lived 'back then'). No, I don't really like the idea and neither does my wife but those, I believe, are the facts. My daughter however is an extreme extrovert and will have no problem whatsoever!

Really good points NorthernVVolf, and in many cases that was how many Caucasians lived historically.

However, there are numerous examples of civilizations in the north, south, east & west who had/have smaller family unit housing as part of a larger community. SOME native tribes (and some scandanavians and some mongols, etc) preferred the longhouses you mentioned... others, within those same regions, preferred small communities of tents & huts, surrounded by a larger wooden palisade, or - just as often - completely open.

There's a successful and safe model for just about any preference, it's a matter of settling on one for your group.

As to the woodburning, woodbuilding, a very strict wood management program would have to be imposed for sure.
Building alternatives would have to be looked at such as straw bale construction, or a greater reliance on fast growing timber such as cedar. Possibly even a bamboo plantation.
A well crafted small home does NOT take as much wood to heat as you may think, and, as our ancestors did, we'd simply have to wear more layers more often. Dinner can be cooked easily over wood-gas burning stoves, harnessing greater % of wood energy, reducing consumption. I'm sure some models could be converted into potbelly type stoves for home heating as well.

It'd be a pretty interesting experiment for someone to catalog EXACTLY how much wood they consume to heat/cook/warm water, etc for their small cabin. And then try different alternatives to improve efficiency or reduce consumption.

I can tell you little from my experience.I was born in a little village in Europe.There were 7 of us living in 3 room house.(not 3 bedroom) with outhouse only.
After our neighbors house explosion 2 of the survivors moved with us so there were 9 of us living in that 3 room house. There were no problems whatsoever but you can say it was normal for people live like that because we were born into it. We did not know any other way. There was only cook stove (home built-brick) that was used for cooking and same time for heating .The bed covers were home made filled with goose feathers very warm.
Now when I lived in Canada most of my time I do not think I could live like that any more and I know people in here would never live like that.
But now I live in bush and ve cook on a wood stove and heat also until frost then I turn the wood furnace on. I love every minute of that lifestyle. Brings good memories.
HENRY

Welcome back Henry how have you and where have you been?

Enjoying the input and interest........For those who have indicated a genuine interest in the proposed project so far, the possible dates for visiting the property are sept. 22 or 29th. There is a limit to the number of visitors at this time. To access the prerequisite info, please PM me and be prepared to follow through.
World-events can easily affect the range of possibilities still available to us now. I'm hoping that all those interested at this point can take advantage of the relative freedom we have so far.

Hey there
I have spent a few years around a Huterite colony. Perhaps thing could be learned from their model.
The farming and daily living jobs are all carried out in groups with individual boss's
The lady I delt most with was Martha the chicken boss , her job was the hatching , feeding , butchering , marketing of the birds
I used to trade Bantom hens for breeding show birds with her
I think any group based colony could learn a lot from these people
Mule

Actually, one of the first inspirations i had around the "longing for relevant community" was on a transcanada trip to BC, and taking a "random biway" to find a Hutterite settlement somewhere near Lethbridge in the late 60's. We were unannounced, but welcomed to a grand feast of their generous, nourishing lunch and invited to to spend the very full day. I was so impressed with the level of clean/care in all areas! That kind of efficiency justifiably costs prioritized attention, for sure, and i had much insight into their protocol on many levels.
The elders (men) invited me to dialog with them in a closed room, querying my motivation and outlook on life, etc., while my female companion was in another room with a number of women....all very interesting/insightful , contributing valuable content to my currently interpreted community profile.

Hey villager. If you watch the news you notice that lot of young people now are leaving the colonies , and you are trying to put together people that mostly never even experienced real family life.
Please do not take it personally but years from today you will be where you are now. Trust me on that one.
Henry

That's ok, Henry, I don't take anything personally......I'm only interested in those who sense the responsible possibilities and have the courage to explore them, regardless of their personal accomplishments to date.
I'm quite aware of the trends in the "established" communities of those days. I saw that coming then, amongst other insights.... because of the entrenched dogma evident in their counter-intuitive behaviours. I was mainly high-lighting the admirable degree of proficiency at a particular level of physical stewardship. Prioritized spiritual emphasis.
There has to be another compelling factor in creative living besides a religious creed or an invented sociocracy to be valid and relevant now.

This is a new attempt at co-formulating the inherent joy of life with responsible destiny of human-kind, at this critical point in human histeria.
Is there any more worth-while aspiration/activity beyond personal responsibility where one lives?