Some of the things that I have changed since talking to Henry: having more building materials on hand, building what I can before I move, research more on the things that I am not sure of, calling in contractors for those bigger jobs
The work never stops, if you find faithful friends that do in fact keep their word and get it done, always keep yours and share your strengths with them, but don't be afraid to start, Don't allow the idea of hard work, never ending work to put you off, if you want to do it, you will.
http://livingmydreamlifeonthefarm.wordpress.com/
Appreciating all the input, considering that we may sense, but really don't know the range of abilities nor circumstances of each other...especially as time has its way with our faculties :O , 🙂
So, much of it is speculation, and it's self-limiting to make firm conclusions just on that basis.
All i have said, and say still, in essence ...what is possible in these circumstances,now, AND as they change.?
Personally, i don't habitually harbor preformed "expectations", nor have set "goals", because circumstances are very changeable, and require flexibility to stay on tracks in the (unknown) direction.
That way, i'm hardly ever disappointed. It's all grist for the mill.
It does not diminish my will in the organic process of taking step by step,as things are, and yes, still inviting others to participate to form critical mass in this project or whatever shape it may have to take based on prudent assessment of changing social structure.
Until/unless there is a minimal semblance of tribal/family cohesion, there is insufficient basis to make the next step as a group.(yes, been there, done that). This does not happen overnight, so there need not be a fretting urgency, in spite of the likelihood of actual social urgency....which may be an additional catalyst in the right direction.
Currently, there are over 50 interested folks signed-online with the project, and we'll see over time how many will engage to form a core of likeminded understanding, and become capable of timely acquisition and action.
Currently the relevant action for many is working/saving/prioritizing towards that ability. I can't judge choices,commitment.
Inherently, our diverse locations don't help timewise with the needed facetime exchange, but it's what it is. If this can stop ones' vision and resolve, it will. So far, it has not stopped mine, and i probably have one of the more complex logistical situations/obligations. Doesn't matter. What else is more important than pursuing THE possibilities, taking steps towards them ? Each viable potential venture has its own organic timetable.
If the necessary components don't converge in time for smooth transition, then i'm sure i would make a rough transition like many others 🙂
It need not be that way for many who are on the verge of similar conviction, and also in the process of prioritizing all of their life-components. You know who you are. Glad to meet you and help, as i have received help.
There were several companies that I had asked to speak at the Huntsville event hoping to get some answers. I believe that one group went but the other could not. Three of them could address my building/design questions but not the land. I contacted the Canadian Real Estate Board to see if I could get someone to speak about zoning. I can't even begin to name all of the government people. The bottom line I was told was ask about a specific piece of land - the Realtor, local and province government.
My idea was for a main house with smaller "cottage" type homes like an artist retreat I once visited in the States; off the grid, full gardens with green houses, fish pond, septic system, well, etc, with some of the out buildings for specific things like black smithing, pottery, woodworking.
Kind of like these ones
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13005828&PidKey=-917508854
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13506552&PidKey=1384279290
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13355762&PidKey=-822039055
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12440596&PidKey=-715367634I wonder if this is why:
Buying Crown LandThe Ministry of Natural Resources no longer actively markets or sells Crown land for private recreational or residential use. Instead, rather than directly selling individual Crown land parcels to prospective buyers, the Ministry is focusing its efforts on working with northern Ontario communities to make Crown land available at market value to support local economic development. As such, the Ministry’s field offices and website do not list individual, surplus Crown lands for sale.
As an alternative to Crown land, you may wish to consider privately owned property that may be available for purchase. If so, please contact the local real estate offices in the area you are interested in, or, by making use of the Canadian Real Estate Association multiple listing service at http://www.mls.ca .I just love this...not
Purchaser to satisfy themselves as to access & boundaries. GPS co-ordinates are not from a survey & are to be used as a guideline only. Owner & Realtor have never been to property.
A great place to start is here. http://www.landwatch.com/Canada_land_for_sale/Ontario Make sure that the Township is UNORGANIZED. And be sure that you have full SURFACE RIGHTS, MINERAL RIGHTS and TREE RIGHTS come with the land. You don't want some company coming onto the land to rip it up for profit.
Blake, yes it is....un org, and am in process of verifying the rest.
Hey villager. This is my last posting regarding this matter. Tis is not being negative like some suggested, it is being realistic observing real life . Avery day you wait and dream is day lost and wasted.
PLASE read very very carefully and think what OldTimeGadner said in his posting Dec. 11. It tells it all.
HENRY
Hey villager. This is my last posting regarding this matter. Tis is not being negative like some suggested, it is being realistic observing real life . Avery day you wait and dream is day lost and wasted.
PLASE read very very carefully and think what OldTimeGadner said in his posting Dec. 11. It tells it all.
HENRY
Hi Henry,
Yes, i usually read topic-relevant posts a few times to make sure i get the point or premise,...and encourage all to do the same of mine.
It's one of the most basic requirements for effective communication, especially as a group, and online.... not knowing what others have read or not read yet, and sometimes seeing assumptions creating an inaccurate picture.
We each write from our accumulated experience and subsequent perspective. My experience has not been as much with onsite wildforest homestead family, but with additional challenging group dynamics in a rural, social-pioneering setting, learning much about creating community almost from scratch, building our own houses, renovating the barn, farming.gardening ,animal care, business, etc.
The great challenge is to do this in a setting such as you have done with your immediate family, but as a larger, viable,diverse, generative group of "unrelated kin"...in these challenging times.
I appreciate that your words are out of caring for a successful experience for me, and i would hope that you would share some more of your specifics here online, and at our place in person if we acquire our space.
You don't really think i just dream, and do nothing towards this direction?
It takes considerable time to maintain communication, organization...while doing work for paying the current bills, and reorganizing all the relevant stuff for taking to the homestead, harvesting, caring for some garden acreage, and aging mother ,etc......unexpected events ?
I don't rush into things anyway....especially if it's not just me involved. There are requirements, and steps which have to be taken, and only the ones directly co- involved can assess the ability and timing best. If i'm too late, or whatever, you can say you warned me 😉 If i'm on time, what will you say ?
I encourage you to share more of what you know to any who ask so that your blessing is increased beyond your space also.
While i hear you and others strongly suggesting to "go now", i have said that to me, it is a greater social necessity to co-facilitate a group experience. Should there be insufficient co-creators, the last resort would be to "go then", (not possible for me alone anyway financially, now)
So, to quote "old time Gardener" :
"But I will not give up...call it stubborn or whatever...this is my way of life." and..."A sense of humor is absolutely essential to survival."
Cheers,...villager
To any who have/indicated an interest in developing the intent of a prepared community in Central Ontario, our meeting in the GTA is scheduled for Jan.12. 2014.
PM me for developing details ...villager
Note to any who have connected or want to connect for a coffee/chat in the cafeteria: I will be at the guelph org. conference next weekend. Please pm me for which day/time...thanks.
Quote = One poster was mentioning that houses should be limited in size. I disagree with setting up limits like this. Some shareholders may want to live at their BOL permanently so why restrict them to a house size limit.
This was me 🙂 and the simple reason for it is because the area being proposed has no access to the electrical grid or gas lines therefore a smaller home is easier to run via solar/wind etc and also easier to heat - regarding the post about wood and forestation. By finding those who agree with this thought process you engage in a more minimalistic approach to life and make your imprint on the local area less intense. And realistically, how much space do you need to live comfortably ? I have designed my house to fit my life, it is 500 sq feet and is more than enough space although l admit if l still had kids at home I'd need more. Perhaps people need to rethink need versus want . . .
Sorry but this comment has me smiling. Let me see if I understand this right ?. According to you all houses should be limited to 500 sq feet. This being the needs you have to live comfortably so it should be the rule for all. Granted you are flexible when it comes to families with kids. That might be lucky so you don't find yourself surrounded in your cabin by a group of old age preppers with minimal needs. But realistically 500 sq as a rule will not get you far. I unfortunately have much more needs than 500 sq feet. Yes I have two kids, but I also have equipment to store along with food supplies. I am not sure how much you have prepped besides building supplies but you are going to need tools, clothes (5 people in my case - summer and winter), fishing and hunting gear, reloading equipment, home schooling supplies for kids, prepping books, food supplies (which thankfully will dwindle freeing up space) a few board games and toys for the kids, not to mention sleeping arrangements etc. Planning and being realistic about these needs is what I consider living comfortably. There is no need trying to do all this in one small room when it can be planned for and done reasonably. Maybe I don't need to rethink need versus want...
But it could be that I am more realistic in what my family and I would be willing to enter into if we are to put our resources and knowledge into a group and taking our prepping a step up from where we are today.
Jensen, i agree. While there may be personal variances in what size is appropriate for each unit, the underlying shared concern/criteria for efficient energy use, general eco-footprint can openly and individually be assessed.
I have similar huge inventory which needs space in order to build the infrastructure, garden spaces, and to continue my income potential after moving.
I've revised my living/storage space design a number of times to reflect this fact, and am convinced of the effectiveness of 20' shipping containers to serve multiple functions : 2 parallel containers make a heavy foundation/storage space plus mid-placed repair-garage, for an upper,1- 2 story living space. The containers would be surrounded on 3 sides with stuccoed strawbales, enclosing the containers' outer walls as an additional ,fire-resistant, bearproof, and heatsink for the upper levels as well.
This includes using the geothermal procedure which i described elsewhere....and more details. It would have limited and efficient heating, but would never freeze, and rarely go below 45 degrees without any heating.
(i noticed that one of the summit presenters this past week referred to this process/method as well, as i had introduced it on his site a few years ago)
The cost-effectiveness of the containers would extend to the commons storage/work area where there may be a half-dozen, spaced parallel, and/or squared compound, with similar format for...carpentry/mechanical/metal-welding/maintenance gear/rootcellar/food-processing-fermenting/well-cover, etc. , earth-bermed where appropriate....all out of sight from road.
This all presumes sufficient space to maneuver/level these into place with a backhoe/bucket combo. The upper level platform would be anchored to the 8 corners of the pair of containers below.
So looking fwd. to a closer and thorough crisscross of the property in spring to document the sites of possibility for building, gardening, wells.
...meanwhile, saving for a UTV for this job over a weekend or so.
I am on board for such a community, however I am probably not alone when saying "my wife would flip out if I told her I'm spending $2,000 to go splits with ten people I don't really know. I think the best way for some type of community to work would to be if there was a host that already had land, a cabin with extra unused land, or a farmer that would invite like minded preppers to use a piece of their property for developing a community. A senario were a farmer owns 100+ acres, with a dozen or so acres of forest. Use the forest to build bunky's or put camper trailers in an area that won't effect the daily work of running the farm....This is just an hypothetical example... Each person that made a bunky or parked a trailer could pay the landowner a lease fee, such as a few hundred dollars per year, and also lend a hand to the landowner from time to time....or find some crown land, but with crown land you cant be in the same spot for over one month andbyou cant build permanent structures. A land lease on crown land would allow buildings, and no time limit on staying, and leases are cheap, which would work out to a couple hundred $$ each per year....problem is finding a lease because they are not given out like in the past, so you need to inherit the land lease or strike a deal with a person that has a land lease that is not used....A place around Hunstville to North Bay would be ideal because its less than a tank of fuels drive from SW Ontario...Everyone could pay for the building of there own cabin/bunky, and everyone chips in on compound security, gardening, and upgrading. I also think one person should not be in total charge, and a council should have final say with a
oops...sent before finishing....a council should have final say through a majority voting system, and certain "titles" should be nominate & voted, such as the head of security, head of infastructure, head of hunting, head of gardening, head of communications, and so on, or instead of head of ...., be team leader of therebspecial skill. Ideally, the community would consist of several people with particular experience & skills. There are alot of "what ifs though", such as assurances that after 2 years of work, the land owner says gsme over, and all the work was for nothing, which is why getting a land lease would be the least costly and most stable....and of course rules & principles would need to be in force, such as each member pulls their weight by promising all members spend equal costs on community projects, and equal time working...but many variables such as a person that may not have physical abilities to perform all tasks, but they volunteered land, then they would not need to pull equal weight, or if a person/family had limited funds to contribute but were experienced hunters/trained by military and were bringing a dozen firearms for the community security, then they would be a assett to a community...or perhaps a nurse that had no extra money to contribute but could save lives....many circumstances & variables to take in account, and decisions such as those may be best to be discussed & voted by all other members or elected council....My opinion is a community is the best choice if shtf, but is difficult to get started, but once started it would be smart and successful especially if the community had members in the same areas, that could travel together if shtfbto the established community...2 groups travel in a convoy from kitchener area, 2 groups travel from Oshawa area, 2 groups travel from elsewere, etc, etc...strength in numbers, if traveling, hunting, recon, supply runs, security watch, and other community events that are vital to a groups survival.
It's very much a matter of perspective regarding the value of a permanent refuge.( as much as anything is permanent in these times). $ 2000.may get you a family rental of a cottage for a few weekends a year., and that amount may be realistic for a temporary BOL with others, but for longterm options one has to consider : what is the value of the place you currently live in? Presumably much more. Sure, everyone appreciates a bargain, but the actual costs of just infrastructure are way beyond that. It might be enough for a temp. situation if you can find one for many trailers without permit , and then only 2-3 season. 4-season bunkies are more costly to build.
When i was looking as a solo unit for a livable rural situation, i tried to find retired farmers/acreage as mentioned...even thru ads. Only 2 responses. Both wanted far more in exchange than was fair from my view, and they were still the "owners".
I still think it's worth pursuing for individuals or couples so inclined, though the requisite reality is just the same as with random strangers with a minimal description/persona......That is trust, built on dialog, intent-disclosure ,exchange/interaction/significant $ and/or work commitment....with signed contingencies in the event of default on commitment.
I have also experienced a lease situation of 12 yrs. with $ invested , countless hours/years of sweat equity and then have the "landlord" play his ownership trump card , when i would not be a serf to his whims.Of course there was no written contract. Shame on me for counting on his assurances.
This contributed greatly to my awareness of developing a viable governance model in any scenario of given parameters.
Many thru history have never thought it fair, reasonable, justifiable or viable to operate on the basis of 51% over 49% voting format as an intelligent governance tool. Depending on the impact level of any issue/decision, the 49% often bears a subliminal or overt grudge against the 51 % for a "term". How can this habit be harmonious, let alone generative ?
This approach effectively avoids the responsibility of engaging in substantive dialog leading to consensual supermajority or even unanimity. As long as it is spun on "both sides" only by representatives of either general view, there is seldom the chance for all the relevant factors to surface because of conscious and unconscious vested interests at variance with what may be truly valid , appropriate.
Unless a group has the practised will, patience and courage to discover/develop collective wisdom, there is insufficient substance for steady, generative, creative community.
Co-ownership at the scale of a group, is essential in my view, and when that has a proved cohesive base, there could then be consideration given to extending participation to some exceptional folks who don't have enough cash/equity, but have other skills needed which have not yet been filled adequately. Their "value" would have to be assessed by the group's criteria, especially if it includes a newbie's status of equal decision input after a trial period.
A further status could be for fixed-term "subsidized apprentices" onsite in a bunkie or yurt, who would not have full "rights", but could apply for residence after the term, with council-determined criteria.
Council to begin with, would be every adult member till it becomes apparent that it is unwieldy; then one may represent another member by proxy. All issues "put to vote" are anonymous. A more favourable expression is to "give consent" to an issue.
Sorry, this is getting longer than i intended.....Some of this should only be considered with a larger view of parameters, complementary community features, etc.
Just returned from the guelph conference.
Met with the natural building folks, and they say they have some folks particularly interested in the kind of rural scenario i've tried to describe, without going into all the details here.(i am still co-working on the legal structure, constitution and by-laws)
Then i met another couple who are very interested in investing for their future home base, and offered to bring their large farm tractor for the snowblowing and log hauling/material handling.
Some of you may be glad to know that there was also a Canadian rocket stove manufacturer with 4 sizes available .I did not have time to compare notes at the end of the day, but we agreed to collaborate on the mini-design.
Never seems to be enough time to make all the possible connections with folks longing for an alternative living modality.