While I live near 'the bible belt of southern Alberta' I do tip the odd glass of alcohol. I also hobby wine making because I can (by other peoples judgment) produce some pretty good wine from kits. My typical bottle of Chardonnay would sell for $17 to $20 or so I am told. My heavy red's would sell from $20 to $30 by the same judges. (OK, I know a bunch of wino's. Get over it!!!) Kit's can sit for an extended period (years) in a cool room and still produce a very nice wine.
My question to you is "Would you trade survival goods for a nice wine?" Seriously, would you trade food, ammunition, first aid goods, or shelter supplies for good quality bottle of wine? (I'd let you taste test...) Do you think that most people would? Just remember, the liquor store has been shut down and looted for weeks if not months.
Just asking,
BTR
Than= I’d rather be rich than poor.
Then= I first became hungry then I ate.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.
Not sure what others would do...my husband and I do not drink, I gave up drinking, smoking, prescription medications and anything else that would be a pain for me to have to deal with having to go without during any sort of shortage/crisis that made them unavailable....don't want to have any addictions
I would think that small bottles of vodka, rum and rye would make better trading items than fine wines. The wine would take up far more room and is only around 12% alcohol. Anyone who trades ammo, first aid supplies and food for alcohol is likely looking for a potent, quick fix, not a fine dining experience. I could, of course, be wrong but I don't think so.
Things such as ammo (.22, 308, 7.62x39, .45), canned goods, precious metals, water, first aid supplies, equipment and fuel make excellent trading items.
Would I trade any of those for wine? No. Would most people? No, I don't think so.
I also agree. If I was wanting alcohol I'd go for the hard stuff. So maybe you could just distil it and barter harder. If you are determined to brew your own, consider beer kits. It might be more of a sociable act though (providing you have a way of getting it cold! 🙂
Thanks for the input!
Siberious, I happen to have a sump in my basement that stays near 40F (not measured but it's about as cool as a fridge) so that ought to do it. I'll have to see how long the shelf life on beer kits is. A cold brew on a hot day around here is a very welcomed treat.
BTW before anyone warns me, I have the means to power the sump pump quietly in a grid down situation as well.
Than= I’d rather be rich than poor.
Then= I first became hungry then I ate.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.
I'd rather have the harder stuff in trade myself as well. Don't forget, it has medicinal and disinfectant properties that wine doesn't.
But wine can be made into vinegar, so could possess a food preservative use.
Runs With Scissors
Just to be difficult I would have to disagree with the rest...sorta. Actually I agree there are much more valuable trading items. However I was reflecting on some of the discussions and scenarios and generally most positions seem to be fairly determinate. If I consider any potential post SHTF I can't help thinking the environment would be changing considerably over time for better or worse I don't know.
I heard a lot of people made a lot of money duration the prohibition in the 20's. I would imagine at some point post shft small fragmented communities would stabilize enough for a simple economy to take root and at that point you could be living large!! Truth is when I get tired of those MRE's and crackers I want to be able get some good wine dam it!
From a barter stance, I think the hard stuff is gonna be more valuable...that said, depending on duration, which is what the real issue would be I think that there are other much more valuable items.
I guess it all depends on when you would need to barter...a month, 6, a year?? Long term, I think medical items, sanitizing and food growth to be more pertinent...But that is just me, though I would probably hand over a box of 9mm's for a good bottle of scotch after a time...but I got lot's of those rounds that I could afford the luxury occassionally...but I would have to be in the scenario to actually know...water filtration may be a much larger concern for bartering...but now I am rambling, or have been for a while.
Cheers
OffThePath
For some reason I'm just betting that Jfamily lives too far away for that transaction. 🙁 My thinking is for special occasions (wedding anniversary for one example) in a long term grid down situation a bottle of good wine would be a brief visit back to 'normal life' in what is otherwise a drastic change for most people. Call it a 'comfort evening' if you will.
Hmmm booze for bullets? That could get down right exciting if sampling both was involved! 😆
I have the potable filtered water front covered right now out to about 8000 gallons if I recall. I expect I'll double total capacity that in the next six months and may actually build a second gravity filtration system for possible barter. 3 years of 8 gallons a day of potable water from a stream of river is a valuable commodity indeed.
In the event of a long term, total grid down situation, I'm sure the barter economy would be interesting to say the least. I would well imagine that some failed transactions would come to blows.
Just curious, what would rural members think is a fair trade for powering your well water pump for say 2 hours, if you no longer have the means to power that pump?
In case you are wondering, my 'best before date' expired some time ago. I am trying to figure out how I can provide goods or services that have barter value without back breaking labor involved.
BTR
Than= I’d rather be rich than poor.
Then= I first became hungry then I ate.
There = She is there now.
Their = They have their things.
They're = They're going to the mall.
To = They came to the house.
Too = That's too bad.
Best Before Date...that is perfect BTR.
I absolutely love these convo's whether plausible or im...but they are all good regardless. There are probably many in same category of BBD, and we all should be living that mantra, as the testosterone respresentation of the movies is a reality that meets with an unfortunate end in these cases regardless of age or conditioning...ammo has no age preferance.
The intelligent, outside the box thinkers will inherit (at least short term), and regardless of your physical ability (though that is parmount), it takes very little to even the odds in your favour.
Bartering with savvy, intelligent people will be as important to that of others physical ability to hole up in a cave for weeks on end, living off the wilds.
I like to think I am a man in between physical capabilities and intellect to work my situation...those that prepare to not only take care of themselves, but have something to offer (through barter, trade, oppertunity to join) will be better off in long run. Do not build your group beyond what is necessary, but surround yourself with skills and personal drive of folks willing to work is what will build a truely strong team...just like business, you don't have to be the smartest, but ensure you surround yourself with people that cover your shortcomings.
Again, thank you for the oppt to discuss the what if's and hopefully build on the strength of this group...we need a secret handshake...lol
OTP
Its economics 101. In order to sell (or barter) a product, you have to have a customer base. Ask yourself who is most likley to be around post shtf: wine drinkers or booze drinkers.
My money would be on the booze drinkers. Now while you may be able to trade off a bottle or two from time to time, I think that most things you would want would be more valuable to a person then a bottle of wine. I think that the best purpose your wine production would have is as a comfort to you and the people you are with. It may make a valuable "gift" to give to people as good faith gestures, but I would have to agree that most people would not part with much valued items to get it, regardless of how good it is.
For the time and effort, I think an alcohol still would be more valuable, but that's just me!
See you all after.
Well I think a wine producer is of value as long as he/she can still produce. In a group setting I can see the tavern man getting special protection. Alcohol has been with us since its creation and will have somewhat a 'stupid' value if things were horrible. I think it is a good move gaining such a, well, needless skill. MJ growers will do well too. Water, food, shelter, sex and drugs are all here to stay. Pick any one of these and your good to go.
Yes. I would trade for it. It would be a nice treat. But in a barter situation you wouldn't get rich off it.
In defense of wine and spirits over brass...
Since I don't have a crystal ball to show me what exactly is going to happen in the future, I will look at the world's recent past for guidance (let's say the last 100 years). Presently, of the many isolated spots in the world where the proverbial shit has hit the fan (I'm thinking Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Mali, etc, etc) there does not appear to be a shortage of bullets on either side of the conflicts sited. Whether you call the fighters terrorists, rebels, government forces, peace keeping forces, or jihadists, anyone seemingly over the age of 8 can and will be pressed into service on one side of the conflict or another, have an assault rifle placed into his hands and as much ammo as is needed. No need to trade for these items. What people don't have is bread. Some twit targeted the f$#$$% bakery and now everyone is hungry!
Food appears to be what overwhelmingly becomes scarce when your "home on native land" becomes a war zone. War appears to be the consistent SHTF scenario throughout the world (for the last 100 or so years) that ruins peoples lives and homes. War and natural events such as Katrina, or tornado, or Tsunami. If you are in a camp that is certain that Canada is ripe for invasion and that the Huns are at your doorstep, start stocking up on ammunition if you are so inclined. However if you still haven't managed to put a generator in place for a hard snow storm I personally feel you are misguided.
More to the point, if you like to make wine from kits and think it's as good as the product made from the vine then by all means do that. Don't stock up on vodka if you don't like the taste of the stuff.
Antsy
Needs must when the devil drives.
I do believe that if you do not like vodka you probably have only had very low grade vodka.
Since it is a post for luxury and keeping with the booze theme here I would say. I would trade some surplus for a bottle of Chopin, Belvedere or Grey Goose and maybe a Stoli black. I however would reject Smirnoff, Absolute or Russian Prince type vodkas and I view these as harsh varnish going down and would rather own a can of beans than drink that vodka. I like my vodka chilled and neat. I guess it depends on who your bartering with (grade of clientel) as to what you trade.