Belowtheradar,

I can appreciate your rationale. As a builder for a living I explored this avenue as well because I think we would all prefer bugging in. Unfortunately IMO the the armed thugs is not the biggest concern. Its is thugs period. History dictates that "Gangsta" mob would be just as content to burn you to the ground. If your're bugging in I would suggest the majority of the investment be focused on an outta sight concept.

I think sandbags are a good way to go for bullets providing your house can handle the weight. Maybe in conjunction with some less visible protection like 1/2" polycarbonate on the windows?

In actuality the worst case scenario is you will end up with an entire back yard of pavers and only get 50 cents on the dollar for the new lawn mover you bought last year. Just messin.

If you buy 2'x2' paving stones, you could line the walls with those then back them up with sandbags. Might as well make the paving stones part of the plan too. I agree that you will likely be burned out anyway. The sad thing about those types of folks is that if they can't get your stuff, they won't let you have it either. Make sure you have a way out and somewhere to go if needed.

I cant see huge Gansta bands roving Alberta. US invasion for oil is more likely...and still more likely would be the "Brass Hoard" of Unpreppared "Preppers" with lots of rounds and a single box of MREs. Still, on weeks of -10 degree weather like this one, freezing to death is more likely than roving Bikers. Wait a minit. Im a roving Biker....I digress. Alot of preppers miss the essential supply of DRY, firewood, WELL SEASONED for at least a year( green wood wont stay lit or burn with any eficiency in your wood stove). So lets kill 2 birds with one log. If things go south, My plan is to move the furniture away from the walls and line them with 2 rows of firewood. Bringing in the firewood also kills another 2 birds with one log...It keeps desperate freezing preppers from stealing your seasoned heat supply wile removing a source of kindling that can be used to burn you out. Wait..3...3 birds (insert Sesame Street Count laugh here) You are also less exposed not having to leave your house each time you need firewood. As a bonus, You can keep adding the next years supply so that it starts seasoning

There are 2 types of gangs. There will be those who existed before the event and those who form from a rag tag group of people with a common yet very loose idea of need. Their bond will be what they don't have and what they need. The first group will have some degree of organization, cohesion, structure, weapons and an attitude from their prior operations. They will have to understanding and acceptance of a limited number of casualties to achieve a goal. The second group will be very different in that there will be virtually none of the glue that holds the first group together. As well they will for the most part be family people and likely a mix of men, women AND children that are only trying to survive. They have little or no malice toward you and no greater plan than to live another day. Their desire to accept casualties will be much lower than the first group. They will also have a higher tendancy to look for easier nuts to crack if you present a hard shell and the willingness and ability to inflict damage on them. In this scenario be selective who you focus on. Address the leaders and the instigators. This will very quickly take the wind out of their sails. DO NOT "assault" the crowd in general. You WILL hit the innocent and this will initiate and angry and violent general response from the group as a whole. This group will be mostly a group of sheeple and will be following those few in front. They will NOT be willing to fight and die against you. The first group will be another beast entirely. They will become and "enemy" that you will ultimately have to avoid, flee from or destroy.

JAB

My wife is an enthusiastic prepper. Her only real concern is for our home, which is her dream property. We work very hard for it and she, rightfully, wants it defended. So my first task in such defense has been to explain to her how difficult that is going to be. Too many trees, access points, neighbors. We would need people.
I have always thought the best defense is to not let 'them' get close enough to fight me in my home. Because while the acreage is hard to defend, the community and terrain are a god send. If I could bring my neighbors together we could defend ourselves for a very long time. I always loved patrolling exes when I was in the army and I am still very good at it.
Our home is log construction. When we moved here I took some of the left over logs and shot them up. 12 gauge buck and .22 are no real concern. 5.56 eats away at the log and will penetrate over time (quite) and 7.62 chips away at the log significantly. But nothing passes through. So I don't really need sandbags (or the labor) but I have to do something about windows and doors. Last nights Doomsday Preppers gave me some great ideas. For once.
As for gangs, I believe we will deal with the unorganized starving first. Then a lull. Then the organized desperate/pissed off. I'm not looking forward to it but we will be ready.

I dunno, though this scenario playing out to me is a bit beyond what I am thinking will happen, I guess it is plausible.

I believe in suburbs and Acreage's, you possibly may see the rag tag group of survivors roaming around looking for food/water/supplies, but as for the organized gangs, don't you think if they are that organized they would be focusing in on controlling food warehouses and other larger items of oppt, as opposed to roaming the countryside...at least for the first while. Possibly they expand there searches later, but they would have to spread out pretty thinly.
Anyway, I believe oranized groups will be city centered, as travel long distances at that point may be tough to do...

Cheers
OffThePath

For starters, I have no intention of buying paving stones. As far as the neighbors will be concerned, the sand is 'the beginning of a project that I just haven't got around to yet'. I am fortunate to have neighbors that don't care too much about what is stored where providing it isn't a huge eye sore. A beater car in the front yard on blocks wouldn't wash but a pile of sand in the back yard wouldn't be a problem especially if put behind a fence.

Getting burned out on the other hand would be one hell of a challenge to defend. I would be inclined to think that 'the roving band' would be observed by quite a few folks in town and there are a lot of hunters in this little berg. If the 'roving band' were to attack any home in this town I believe that they would be out gunned from many angles in pretty short order. That said, it only takes one bullet to take a life so I would prefer the safety of sand bags to hide behind if bullets are possibly coming my way.

Concerning the sand bag loading on the structure, having the sand bags next to exterior walls would transfer most of the load on the floor joists to the concrete foundation.

My house is pretty plain and does not appear to be 'the rich guys place' by any means. I do agree that 'laying low' does have it's advantages. (see tag line below)

This scenario is a pretty 'far out there' situation but entirely possible in the case of societal breakdown. This became plain as day during Katrina. Bad people view emergency situations as opportunity.

BTR

I don't think we should put too much energy into this possibility but I'll play the mental game with you.
Are you sure about 6" of sand? I cut down a foot diameter oak tree and have had .308 rounds(150gr FMJ) pass right through it and halfway through a cinder block on the back side. I suggest some testing of your own before you commit to anything.

Earth or sand is going to be your cheapest option either way, how about some nice planting beds close to the house? It depends on the terrain around your house but a berm or raised bed will protect things from the outside.
First off though, military doctrine will tell you to have a layered defense - create obstacles and funnels to deal with threats before they're at your door. You may look at the big picture and find it isn't a good defensible location to begin with.

I have been giving thought to this problem as well.

I am curious if the horizontally layered stone that is popular now is capable of stopping or significantly slowing down bullets? Every year it seems, we hear a story on the news about a 9 mm pistol that is shot inside a city home and the bullet passes through one house and through another. Modern houses offer little in the way of ballistic protection. Perhaps brick or layered stone siding will offer better protection?

I don't think a home would need overhead ballistic protection, but something that gives cover when on the floor would be a good start. If you need much more, it was probably time to leave some time ago. I don't think a passive defensive fortress in the city could be maintained very well for very long. So planning to build one with sand, cement, or steel is not something I would do.

My plan is to stop intruders in the perimeter of my yard and house. If it gets really bad, or if it looks like it might get bad I will run for the hills, or at least to family in a more defensible location.

This all depends on your situation. Let's take mine as an example. The closest major city to me is Montreal about 70 - 80 km away. The advantage is that it is an island and any major problem that would have people consider leaving would also likely make the bridges and tunnels off the island unusable. There will be a few fishing and hunting enthusiasts that will have small boats to escape with, but these people will also have skills and equipment that may make them welcome.
As for the organized gangs such as street or biker gangs, they will be more likely to try to control and loot their own area anyways, IMHO. Mafia type organized criminals likely won't be looking for out of town rurals like me either.
If travel off the island is possible, I think the first wave of refuges will be the unprepared that are escaping the local gangs and criminals. They will be hungry, tired and mostly unarmed and under equipped, which will make them not much to worry about. Also, these sheeple will be looking for government help in the form of red cross camps or something to that effect before searching out rural or farm land.
All in all, I think the city will deteriorate into a dangerous environment quickly, and this is the number one reason I left Montreal a few years ago. In my opinion, if you can get out of the city, do so. If not, try looking for a small rural property that you can bug out to and then bug out to it early. You don't need to spend a ton of money either. Try looking for an acre or so from municipal auctions and getting a used camping trailer to start with. It may not be the best option, but it's better than nothing.
Bottom line for me...get out of the city as it will be a dangerous place to be. You will not be able to defend an urban location for very long if at all.

WOW! A lot of thought going into this tread and I like it. Many brains are far better than one IMO. 😀

Perfesser, if you looked at the link in the first post of this string you would see that sand out performs wood by a long shot (no pun intended) to absorb the energy of a bullet. Those 'BoyScout' sand bags also end up being about 7 1/2 to 8" thick so that creates and additional buffer zone for all but the biggest rounds. Besides I'd rather be fragged by a few grains (10? 20?) of slow moving lead than be shot by 160 grains of pretty damn intact, supersonic bullet.

Denob, I did the relocation thing over a year ago with the closest town over 10,000 pop being 80 KM's away. Granted the vast majority of (I'll call unprepared bug out people what they are) refugees wouldn't even make it this far out, those that did would be pretty weak and desperate. When your belly starts rubbing your backbone morality goes out the window pretty damn fast and survival takes over. The Brass and Gas preppers are another worry.

Fyi... You don't have to have the sand bags pre-loaded. You can buy a pallet of empty sand bags (I. Believe about 2000 bags a pallet) and keep them stored in a garage or somewhere in the yard wrapped in cellophane and under a tarp. Indoors would be best imho, but work with what you have.

Then if the time ever does come when you would need them (fortifying, flood defence, etc) you simply grab the shovel, and start tossing chunks of your back yard soil into them, then place as required. Just make sure to have a map of where your underground ulitlities are located. Get that info by simply calling 3-11, or whatever your local city/town information line is.

Just a thought.

What's a 'Brass and Gas' prepper? Haven't heard that one.

A "Brass and Gas prepper" is one who will rely on using his guns and petrol bombs to take what he wants from others... In short, a marauder.

Defending ones home against all threats cannot be effectively done reactively. You have to enter into the scenario proactively and the best bet is to build a network of like minded individuals who will have a wide variety of complimentary as well as overlapping skills. When a SHTF scenario happens, you have to have plans for mobilization of resources & personnel for maximum effectiveness and efficiency. So find out who in your neighborhoods are of the same mindset, re-enter into neighborliness and get to know those folks next door, you'll be surprised at who you find in your neck of the woods. Once you have a network in place, you will be able to present a strong front and those gangs will be less likely to take you on. Once the safety net is gone, we're like the animals in the wild, what are we willing to risk for what gain? If you make the risk too much, the gangs will move on. If you can build a network of communities, you can radio ahead to the next community and warn them. After enough disappointment the gang will either leave the area entirely, or fail and disband/implode.

Remember preppers, fending for yourself is a good start, but it is just that, a start. You are the ones who will be charged with rebuilding society.

-S.