I have different plans for different scenarios. I am prepared to bug in and bug out. Living within a major city grants me some benifets as well as challenges, so there is no "one plan beats all" in my mind.

Living in a large center grants me some survivability in a small scale disaster. For example the recent flooding in Calgary (although extremly damaging to the low lying areas) did not effect me. There were some pretty good traffic delays, but the city was able to recouperate at a very fast rate because of their infrastructure and resources.

Now If I had been in High River, there was no excuse for bugging in. That would have been a bugout scenario for sure.

Best advice I can give is to think of what your disaster scenarios are in your area (for example flooding, tornado, snowstorm, zombies, etc) and make a plan for each. Also when it comes to buggin out, have an actual destination in mind. better yet have several, depending on your direction of travel. One of my main Bugout routes in Calgary is south... but If I had to leave during the floods, the way south was bloocked by more severe flooding. I would have had to go west or north. There is no sense moving blindly into the boonies without having a place to go.

If the scenario is quite severe and may last for a long time or forever I would get my ass out of Dodge ASAP. You would only have so long before bridges and HI ways will be occupied by bandits, thugs or military. If you can t slip through you may have to stay put and in a big city that is not ideal. That's my 2 cents worth.

I live in a small town. Bugging in unless forced out by nature. All my stuff is here, I know my neighbours who are relatively like-minded so we could set up neighbourhood watch and share resources and skills. Per above though, you can't put all your eggs in the same basket.

Because I am from the town with the new lake in it, I have a whole new perspective on this. I think Buggie is correct in the idea of having many different plans. I am going to be way less focused on having a lot of stuff in one place. (actually less focussed on stuff period) When I left High River, I was forced to leave my stuff ... but truly none of it would have done one bit of good, in this situation. But had the things escalated form one thing to another ....leading to a situation where I may have needed things, I would have been cut off from all of my supplies. So new plans are now underway... having supplies at several different locations, having people you can go to, being way more flexible and adaptable have new meaning. Having an actual place to go.. more then one would be wise. Landfinder... the roads where closed here so fast... in so many directions, there was police, and army at most exists so fast is was hard to believe. People working in Calgary had a very difficult time getting back into High River to pick up their children. Children who may have been in school.. who were evacuated to the high school... and then from there evacuated to.. either Nanton, or Blackie, or Vulcan, or Okotoks, because the phones and cells did not work.. parents did not know where their kids had been taken. Hundreds and hundreds of people got rescued by boats, helicopters, farm machinery. They had no time to think about bug out bags, etc., they could not even take out their pets. Shit!!! never, never goes down how we think it will.

I don't find the bug outin dichotomy realistic. The only way that makes sense to me is...Pre positioning. Ive made the hard choices and live at my bug out location...so its not a BOL. All my gear and food is here. My garden is dug. I have shelter from 30 bellow weather...and the dry seasoned stacked wood to heat it.

Only then do I have back up BOLs...with people that will take me in because Ive made pre arrangements to do the same if the tables are turned.

Here is the basic rule. If you bug out without a destination (With food, shelter and firewood waiting for you) you are just a refugee. Being a homeless person isn't quite the adventure brochure story line in the movies. Especially in Canadian winters. Its shelters and soup kitchens once reality sets in. If you think that you can take a bag of stuff out into the woods and live off the land indefinitely...then you haven't lived in the woods long enough to have acquired the skills to live indefinitely. No one that actually lives off the land would tell you that it is possible.

On the other hand....The bug in argument is also disingenuous. You better have a plan B when your stuff and hypothermia preventing shelter burns to the ground...or the wife kicks you out during the divorce.

So...Back to pre positioning. Don't think you will just grow a garden...if you don't already have a garden. Its brutally hard work. The forest is generally a mono culture now and not teaming with food...especially when other people are competing for it. Many areas were hunted to extinction during the Great depression. There is a heck of a lot more people now

Here is some afterthoughts about where to pre position. If you live near sea level, you are an idiot. If you live on a flood plain, you are an idiot. If you live with your cabin under a forest canopy...you are an idiot. We sure are giving a lot of money to idiots that live in hurricaneTsunami zones, Towns built on river banks and tinder dry homes in the hills, lately. Im not sure why we are giving rescue money to people that chose to live in future disaster zones.

That's My best advice on the bug outin argument. Pre Position...then Multi Position

Here is some afterthoughts about where to pre position. If you live near sea level, you are an idiot. If you live on a flood plain, you are an idiot. If you live with your cabin under a forest canopy...you are an idiot. We sure are giving a lot of money to idiots that live in hurricaneTsunami zones, Towns built on river banks and tinder dry homes in the hills, lately. Im not sure why we are giving rescue money to people that chose to live in future disaster zones.

That's My best advice on the bug outin argument. Pre Position...then Multi Position

Cernunos,

A bit harsh considering that many fellow preppers lost a lot in the recent floods. Natural disasters are usually impossible to predict and are usually merciless. What you think is your perfect location may be the perfect tornado target or be swallowed by a roaring bush/forest fire. Now, if we keep rebuilding houses in flood plains, then it is indeed idiocy.

That said, I like your approach to the bug in/out issue. I would love to live year round on a self-reliant retreat, however, I have to face "real life" that is the 99% of my family's life. It's a fine balancing act to be prepared just in case and continue to live a normal day to day life, with work, education, social activities, etc.

I agree with Cernunos, if you have never lived off the land, you have know idea how bloody hard that it is ... even when you have things kind of set up. In a true SHTF situation, it would mean starvation for a good many preppers who think they can throw a 80 to 120 lb bug out bag on their back and go off into the wilderness. For a good many years, I lived with huge gardens, and a berry orchard, small livestock, goats, chickens, rabbits, pigs, we fished and hunted. Lived entirely off the land..if we did not grow it or find it.. we bartered goat meat for flour, raspberries for honey and about the only thing I bought was salt. Yes this evacuation from High River has totally taught me to have Mulit-positions, that are pre set up.
Helicopilot is correct Cernunos!!.. more then a bit harsh!! natural disasters for the most part are unpredictable... Pine Lake tornado, the tornado that went through the trailer park by Edmonton years ago... and several members of this forum have homes surrounded by the waters of the new lake in High River that is not anywhere near the flood plain.

I do agree living on a known flood plain by choice isnt exactley a wise choice for a prepper... but in high river many of the people who lost their homes were not even ON the flood plain. They were hit just the same

Social unrest - so for this I'm considering the threat of other unprepared humans after about 2 weeks (probably less) without basic modern services. For me, bugging out would be a last resort - mainly because I don't have a prepared bug out location. Sure I've looked at the map, evaluated potential areas to go, but if the area has not been prepped ahead of time, the risk is too great. I would need to take enough food and supplies to last long enough to get settled, create a garden etc; that would take up to a year or more, even with a good skill set. Getting a years supplies for my family and I from point A to B in that situation would be utterly impossible as driving a loaded vehicle would raise too many eyebrows - assuming the roads are accessible and the vehicle works. My bug out plan assumes bicycle or on foot as a travel method which leads me to believe that being situated to shelter in place for a decent amount of time is the best option, ideally outlasting the social unrest. Sheltering in place gives the ability to lie low, evaluate the situation and act accordingly. I would bug-in until i thought my family's safety was approaching imminent danger (unfortunately) and continuing in place was no longer feasible. Someday I will have a BOL that is already set up and cultivated with a reserve cache of supplies, that way I would make a decision within 2 or 3 days after an event in order to hopefully avoid the stress of facing a long term bug-in in an urban area.

I would bug in as long as possible. I am constantly looking for bug out locations when random camping. Finding a location with a good sustainable food supply is very challenging and who is to say that your chosen location isn't the target of many other 'survivalists'? I will not plant anything other than a 'guerrilla garden' in the wilderness unless it becomes my bug out location. If the guerrilla garden survives untended it's a pretty good sign. If not it would require lots of work to sustain a garden. Hardly a calorie burning challenge to take on in situation that puts food at a premium.

The logistics of bugging out are something I would prefer to avoid unless it is absolutely necessary. I was fortunate enough to inspect my current location during a very wet spring and without a sump pump my basement it would have flooded. Even with the wet spring/early summer we had this year my sump pump has sat idle for the most part. I do have a backup sump pump and am working towards getting off grid for my electrical supply. (I'm talking about 1.5 KWH+ solar and a small wind turbine)

My BOV is a 4x4 and a small 5th wheel trailer with limited solar charging. Why would I give up the comforts of home for life in a trailer with very little power?

FYI: I live in a small town with a lot of community spirit and have/am cultivating my reputation as a no BS/lip service, good and helpful neighbor to those who live near me. Those are the people that I will have to count on to some extent if society breaks down. Only one trusted neighbor knows about some of my preps and they are very like minded and want to learn from me. They are very early stage preppers and both of them KNOW it's going to get far worse before it gets better.

If I still lived in Calgary I would be more prone to find a designated bug out location due to the proximity of 'the bad guys'. Fortunately I changed that a couple of years ago.

As for the 'bug out bag live off the land' crowd, I think many skeletons will be found in the woods for years after SHTF. Some (very few) will survive beyond the first winter but a miniscule number will have a life that is more than existence. By far most will wonder if their next meal will be shot/snared in time to not go hungry another night. I'd rather die than live like that.

I'll bug in as long as possible thanks!

As for cernunnos5's comments, while harsh they are reality. Sometimes real life slaps you upside the head and it isn't gentle. While High River went through an exceptional flood with exceptional circumstances this year it has flooded a couple of times before in the last 10 years so those living on low ground had nothing other than stupidity or Alzheimer's to blame for being there. Bottom line: If you live on a flood plain get ready to be flooded. That is something that I took into account when buying my previous and present home. I like camping near a creek or stream but wouldn't build a house on a flood plane.

All the best to High River folks who made it.
BTR

@ cernunnos5's comments - some locations do exist with higher risks attached to them and most people do not take responsibility to identify and manage the risks effectively. No location has zero risk attached but risk can be mitigated at every location. City, suburban, small town, countryside, wilderness - all have risks and how you mitigate the risks at one, may be entirely different than another.

As for Bug Out Bags, they are essential but just to get you to a secondary location. Using this last winter as example, it arrived on October 30th with 12" of snow and didn't quit till April 30th. Six straight months of cold, dark, winter killed off lots of settlers in this area, and they generally had better skills and experience than your even your average prepper, plus a wagon full of supplies.

Continue to expand your comfort zone, but build on your strengths, whatever and where ever that may be.