Buggin as a group

Has the SHTF already?

http://www.news1130.com/2013/08/08/uptick-in-number-of-food-crops-stolen-from-community-gardens/

Preppersaurus

I think it has in ways people don't even want to acknowledge. A local farmer in the lower mainland told me that bee hive theft, entire hives as well as just having the frames lifted, is on the rise because demand for pollination services and loss of colonies is impacting the food industry in ways the average person is not seeing right away. There is tons of metal theft going on . When I open my natural gas bill and see $50 worth of charges on a $20 commodity I see that as theft too . We see it is thousands of small ways impacting us slwly with growing intensity .
We barely see it in the insidious practices of what you are buying as food in the grocery store go largely unrecognized or unacknowledged. We seem happy to partake of the abundance and choose to disregard the toxins, oil dependency , environmental degradation, genetic atrocities of GMO plants and animals and the fact that what one eats affect your lifelong health but also affect your genetics you pass down.
Climate factors have hit home to corporations and governments that are positioning themselves, with global acquisitions of resources but seem to just be conversation of whether scientists are right to predict a hotter climate or an ice age if the thermohaline circulation of the ocean currents based on convection created by salt and fresh water differential at the pole stalls and changes amoungst most half awake people.
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/august/climate-change-speed-080113.html
Believe me , seeds left in a container in your bug out bag are not being selectively saved yearly for their ability to thrive in such escalated climate change , that is what we should be doing though . I think there the 'S' has been hitting the fan for while now and the people here on this forums are the ones noticing and speculating on coming consequences whether they are economic collapse, social deterioration and conflict or environmental like extreme weather disasters.

Cosmicprep's comment about 'lone wolves' could be very correct and that I am basing on the opinion of people who have been in devastated warzones around the globe have commented on the survival strategies that they see functioning and what doesn't.

Has the SHTF already?
http://www.news1130.com/2013/08/08/uptick-in-number-of-food-crops-stolen-from-community-gardens/
Preppersaurus

Wow, I thought of this too, Colin Dring has a great article about "Food Crisis, Food Security", what happens when you do not have access to fresh produce. Access automatically stops for some reason. (too many reasons to list).
Theft from community gardens has been going on far too long, and it's only now that it is being acknowledged. Before it was a few bunches of carrots, now the farms are being stripped bare.

Cosmicprep - You are spot on about surviving in groups. "Strength in numbers"
An example that come to mind is a survivor's tale from the Bosnian War. - http://www.naturalnews.com/040249_Bosnia_preppers_survival_strategies.html#ixzz2SnkPYI8k

my dad just had this happen, while was at work, some folks came in picked out acres of his saskatoons,

There is definitely a food crisis there has been for years but no one has really been paying attention to it. We have started planning for it on our farm and we aren't the only ones. Justdoit said something about people fleeing to Alberta this could be an option but it could be a hard slog to get there. You will have to go through some major mountain passes that could be closed.

Have you all seen that movie on History After Armageddon? Watched it on youtube the other night some interesting stuff on there, they of course try and throw everything into the show but some good points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8rYaPfFLgo

Well, here I go with part two:

A couple more points about groups first. Maybe a group bugging out may come across valuable people (medicos, doctors, nurses come to mind) among the refugees and want to incorporate them into the group. A simple social contract should take care of this, in other words, make a deal. Security/protection, food etc. would be the currency in such transactions. A group would have lots to offer prospects.
And what happens after SHTF? A social structure will form; your group becoming a community of some kind. Your group dynamics will determine the zietgiest of your new community.

There is no point in just running if you don't have a destination. Within 72 hours you'll use up your resources and then just stop, unable to go on. A viable destination is a must! Look at a tourist map of BC and starting at the northern tip of Vancouver Island draw a line eastward to Cache Creek, then on to Kamloops. From there draw the line N.E. to Jasper. Without a pre-destination you have to get north of this line. Also all the major highways have population coredors that to strangers would prove unfriendly. Everyone is territorial, you would be viewed as a threat, no matter what your intentions are. Another point you might not know is that the First Nations are already every where in the province and they are not just confined to Reserves. They view surrounding territory as their historical lands, and rightly so. Screw-up and it will be a full tribe vs you. They are good people, but will no longer take any BS.
North is the only direction to go and you need enough resources to get there or you won't. Its a simple as that.

Thats enough for now, please excuse my spelling.

Great points cosmicprep.

After watching that After Armageddon the other night a whole new point was made in their that I think we all need to realize. Once SHTF and things fall apart people are going to move to where the water is. Not just you and I but everyone. Consider this we are not that far from California, Nevada etc. these people will be moving towards the N.W. which means added pressure on those already there. Eventually they are going to move across that imaginary line and move into our valleys. If this happens what cosmicprep says about going North might be the only real option for long term survival.

Or they will move south west to avoid a cold winter with out heat.. Imagine how many people would die in the first two weeks if something bad happens and its -20c..

Do they even know Canada exists? First cold night and they may think twice about heading further north. IMHO. How many people in Nevada have parkas?

Continuing on from yesterday...
After re-reading my previous post I must say that the reason why you would have to get north of that imaginary line is because south of the line will be full. Everyone plans on "heading for the hills and living off the country" including people who live in the country. Not gonna happen, at least the 'living' part. Any edible animal will be gone within the first week, but the crowds will remain and after a week or two of hard scrabble (raiding and killing each other) the cannibals will appear.

Bug out timing is the crux of the whole excercise. Aaronbouge is correct about the waves of refugees though there'll be more than just two. The first wave is where to be but how do you decide? Coming back to a ruined life after a month in the bush is one way to ensure non-survival at a later date. There comes a point in the death of a city where the inhabitants, in panic and terror, decide enmass to evacuate. This will result in a mass exodus of clogged roads, accidents, and murderous incidents. Not the place to be, so you'll have to hold up wait till after the second wave and make your way on foot or bicycle (third wave). Out of hundred thousands in the second wave, expect only a few thousand to survive a month. The last wave will be the barbarians...

An excellent point was raised about boating out of Vancouver, one that I hadn't thought about. This would be a good alternative to the highways, but again if you don't have a pre-destination you'll have to sail up the coast past Vancouver Island. That Island itself is full so don't just go there and all the little islands in the Straight are full too (over full actually). I noticed an attitude of writing this very good option off in the discussion about escaping by sea and I chalk this up to fear of the unkown. People being unfamiliar with boats and/or oceans and dismissing the idea out of hand. Could be a big mistake.
Another issue was water. The west coast is a rain forest, meaning it gets as much or more fresh water dropped on it as a tropical jungle does. Just stretch a tarp and collect the run-off.

Thats it for now on this topic, some things to think about.

DELETED

Thanks for your input Screedcrete, the reason I'm here is to discuss ideas, thoughts, and theories. I write with a flow of conciousness type of style and I'm extremely lazy so I spend little time prettyfying prose to make it more palatable. Along with that I suffer from a cronic case of 'footinmouth' disease. I appreciate objectvity. That being said...
All my remarks about bugging out were about the people (preppers) that don't have a destination. What do you do if you've got no where to go? And you have to go, in SHTF the cities will die.
I'm not on about the statistcs but how many square miles does one grizzly bear need to sustainably live? I think its in the hundreds. And then how many does a human need 'living off the land' or a family of four? The key word there is 'sustainable' This is why I say the south is full. Not to mention the elephant to the south...
Yes, multiple possibilities and this is all fantasy anyways as it hasn't happened yet, but discussion of fantastical scenarios is how we'll cope in the if and when.

The point about the possibility of refugees making a chaotic time of collapse far more difficult is well worth exploring as you prepare. Good observation cosmicprep.

DELETED

Hi Screedcrete, been a while.

I also think it's clear to see where we'll end up if we adopt such a strategy. We'll get eaten, or die in the cold. British Columbia is by no means inhospitable, but she will kill you if you aren't careful. Being one with mother nature, what does that mean? I'm all for being closer to nature, but we have a chance right now to do something about that without losing half our group in the process, without losing our possessions and the products of our labor, withour a great degree of suffering.

Isn't that why we all post? To prepare, to ease our passage into this new and more difficult world that we all percieve to come!

Caching, as you've noted before, is a great idea. It gives us resources to work with, and markers to let us know we're going the right way. But our greatest problem has yet to be addressed: Where do we go? For what reason? What will life be like when we get there?

When we get there, it won't be the fight of our lives. It will just be life. A little harder, a little wetter, a little dirtier, but life all the same. And what that life looks like is determined by what we do right now, what we make that place that we'll go to.

Going into the woods with a bug out bag, a rifle, and an optimistic attitude is conducive only to our survival, not our prosperity. We need to THRIVE not survive!

We need somewhere to go.