Buggin as a group

Any way you look at it , people will be competing for resources , you can bet resources for foraging, hunting and fishing will become more elusive with more people dependant on them. I wonder if it would be worth the investment in fertilizer to create some permanent road blocks at key strategic bridges or narrow passages over the amount of other defensive measures you'd need to secure interior positions rather than strategize to move people off with a small army of bullets ?

You make valid points aaron. We have friends from the lower mainland and they have plans to make it to our neck of the woods. I didn't mean to come across as hostile I was trying to say that it is something that you should take into consideration. Many of the preppers across the interior have similar worries that with a massive flood of people fleeing the Fraser Valley it will stress the infrastructure and resources to their limit. Have you been to any of the beach communities in the Interior on a long weekend? You have to remember too places like the Shuswap will see an influx from your area as well as Alberta as will parts of the Okanagan and maybe even the Kootenays. People who come prepared won't be the main concern because like you guys have pointed out you will come with some supplies and some ability to make a go of it. The real threat to us and you will be what aaron said is the second wave. They will be the majority and they will be desperate and like you said aaron many of them will be armed.

The winter in parts of the interior can be harsh so I would bet that most people will flood into areas like the Okanagan because it is more mild there. We are not on the direct line to the Okanagan or Kamloops area but we are close and there will be spill over.

Someone mentioned that there is a difference between how the folks in the Lower Mainland prep and how we in the Interior prep. It is sort of true I think most of us have a bug out location and plan but we will be fleeing the hordes of desperate people from wave 2 more than anything. You guys should take what I said about winter seriously. If there is a breakdown in the government the highways and roads out of the region could be shutdown. Been over the Coquihalla in the winter? No one keeping it clear or managing the avalanche risk and it is out of service. The other routes won't be much better the Hope-Princeton can be just as bad and the Canyon...

Anyways I was just trying to bring another train of thought into your prepping planning. We won't all be out to shoot first, I won't be here talking to you about it if I was but you will need to be prepared for the chances that you may be told to keep on trucking and if you are in that second wave, well that could be the real interesting.

I've been reading this thread with interest and there have been some great thoughts brought forward....who to travel with, where to meet, where to leave messages, cache's for food and other supplies and possibly the setting up of networks.

One thing that hasn't been addressed, though, and I think it really ought to be, would be the matter of health and sanitation.

Stress (and if we're talking about a shtf scenario, there *will be* stress!) can bring on a host of health issues....the body can only cope with so many things at once. Depending on the time of year (winter, for instance) it could be even more of a concern. Are there medical issues that need to be considered? Does anyone in your group require specific medication (like, perhaps, insulin), can there be natural alternatives that can be stockpiled?

I also mention sanitation because that will be a challenge for even a small group in a shtf situation. And illness can spread through a group like wildfire, especially if there are children or the elderly in your group. Managing illness is something you should put into your plan. I guess I'm saying that even the best bug-out med kit can't cover everything, and these are things that I rarely see considered.

anyway, just a thought to add to the mix.

Farmer I didn't take your comment as hostile, I apologize if I came across as defensive. I believe you made a very valid point when you brought this up and it is something I have mentioned to people within my personal network and think it is something everyone on "both sides of the fence" needs to think about. I personally hope people would not shoot first as I would not be the one shooting first either. But knowing the nature of people during stressful times, and knowing my history, I know that many people will be in the shoot first mindset. Therefore me and my group plan to avoid as many of them as possible. It's a bit about the route, but more importantly it's the timing. Like you said, you DON'T want to be part of the second wave. The best thing to do is to avoid, and go straight to your location. And then right back to prepping.

DELETED

If there is ever a sudden emergency that dictates bugging out, would the first wave not be those tens of thousands of people who are daily in transit , suddenly impacted and displaced in the interior ? That may actually be the first 'wave' of displaced people the interior folk will have to deal with if they are along a transportation route . Those with a specific bug out agenda may or not be those arriving next .
I am sure the interior is going to be just as affected for shortages from the get go as elsewhere , I am sure they are dependant on shipments of supplies from all over like everyone else. And the point I think that Farmer made that is going ignored is that the preppers there have already given consideration to the tribe their land can support and the family and friends they will be trusting and extending their hospitality too, same as anyone else will be in the heat of the moment . And it is not so easy to just forage some more and fish some more and hunt and snare a little more to provide for an extra family no matter how good your intentions are bugging out . Gardens are seasonal and 3/4 of the year are not bearing and need to be planned for and it is not just the labour to go out and help put in and tend the garden, there are needs to be equipment to put up and preserve the food an extra family needs in winter. Additional orchards take years to establish and I doubt those bugging in are going to subsist on pine needle tea until then . I think people will be scraping just to provide for their own communities let alone an inflow of refugees. And when you see how defensive it gets in conversation on a forum of nice LIKE MINDED people, it should give you some clue that it could quickly turn violent. Say before any preppers arrive there are already lootings, and violent attacks , defensiveness is going to take on a whole new level . I think there needs to be a lot more thoughtfulness and planning and as I say investment upfront to make a successful relocation especially under the duress of a suddenly chaotic and long term emergency .

I personally will not be bugging to the interior but it does bring home a point to me , that I should be investing cooperatively in the destination , and the network to get me there now. As small an effort as this may sound today I am going to put eggs in the incubator to try to raise a few extra layers , pot up some volunteer walnuts , apples and plums and take a bunch of cuttings to start .

I dont think farmers point is going ignored. I think it is a valid point. and most of what he, and u syn have said is very true. but, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, its almost a "not my problem" situation. well, it IS my problem,but most people wont be thinking about it. not in the short term. Look at it like this. u have 1.5 million starving, desprate unprepared people behind u. do u really care about how ur gonna be feeding yourself in two years, a year, or even a month from now? Heck no! U care about surviving today! Ask any non prepper wat they would do if SHTF I gurantee most will say "im gna hook up my 5th wheel and go camping up north." My point is this is wats gna happen, for sure.so if your living up north, u better be preparing for it.

also, back to food. we established that most preppers hav consdered this already. and have a plan to feed themselves. so y concern yourself with those bugging out? Ppl bugging out arnt refugees. refugees are the unprepared ppl seeking refuge in your land.

Also, the point farmer did make thats going ignored is winter. its harder to feed yourself(and travel, among other things). Ive been studying and ive come to learn theres food EVERYWHERE. What we consider weeds amd nuisnce plants are for the most part edible. its all around us, in the summer, not the winter. ideas?

Als many preppers i know have seed banks in their BOB. doesnt help u today, but if u cache u can survive until those seeds grow.

anyways just some thoughts. hopefully my point isnt lost and friends up north prepare for this. i also think theres lots of advantage to groups up north allying with groups down here. Theres already a skilled labor shortage up there imagine after SHTF. Or when lines of communication are down, the 1st wave comes bearing the news. things like that.

aaron I think most people do overlook winter no matter where they are. Winter to me is the biggest fear no matter how prepared we are winter is long, unpredictable and it doesn't take much for your stocks to be lost. Our freezer was full of moose, elk, deer, salmon and beef we went away one weekend and came home to a freezer full of garbage. Was a very costly loss for us. Luckily fall is coming and hopefully it will be filled up again. There is food in the wild even in the winter but you really need to know what you are looking for. You can't depend on having game readily available and once the streams and rivers freeze up you will need to find a good lake for fish but again not all lakes will produce for you and with extra pressure on these resources will make it harder. Remember too that most of your favorite fishing holes are stocked!

There are some plants that you can pick in the winter but again it isn't going to be easy. You guys in the Valley are lucky in that respect you don't get the snow that we do and if you can ride it out you can grow winter gardens which give you nearly a year round food supply.

Anyways no matter how we look at it if the SHTF it isn't going to be a cakewalk and if for some reason the lower mainland has to flee or the interior has too head to the ocean things are going to get really bad no matter what.

DELETED

If there is ever a sudden emergency that dictates bugging out, ... I think people will be scraping just to provide for their own communities let alone an inflow of refugees. And when you see how defensive it gets in conversation on a forum of nice LIKE MINDED people, it should give you some clue that it could quickly turn violent. Say before any preppers arrive there are already lootings, and violent attacks , defensiveness is going to take on a whole new level . I think there needs to be a lot more thoughtfulness and planning and as I say investment upfront to make a successful relocation especially under the duress of a suddenly chaotic and long term emergency .
.

Great points Syn!! Your last sentence really hit the nail, more thoughfulness and planning is required especially under duress! All of the constructive criticism within this forum are only going to open our eyes to help us makes us better.

Also your post reminds me of History Channel's show "After Armageddon" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8rYaPfFLgo - about a simple "unprepared" family having to flee a disaster.

Started watching it the other night. had to book mark it to come back later but from what I saw it looks like a lot of people I know. And like it or not it is based on a real what if scenario.

Just read all 8 pages of this thread and have so much to talk about I had to make notes! It is gonna take a few instalments. I'm late to this table so please bare with me.

Over all, two main themes stood out : Groups and Bugging Out. Starting with Groups, Screedcrete seems quite sincere in his ideas of the importance of a group, what it is and his desire and need of one. Lone wolves, if they survive, will end as hunted scavengers; no real place in whatever society exists after SHTF settles down.

So a group is good. One can 'rule-of-thumb' the size of a group by 'extended family' (up to 15-ish), 'clan' (several 'families') and 'tribe' (2 or more clans). Obvious, historic, basic terminology that all will understand. Problems expoentially multiply as numbers increase. Two or more people automatically means politics; how familiar is group dynamics?

Not in a group? Get in one now -its getting late. Even if its a contingency join (just don't bs the other members), at least you have an option. There also 'natural groups' all around you, your family, best friend crew, sport/game team, the in-law's family etc. etc. Like all relationships, you get out what you put in. A group becomes a team only if the group is active. There is no need to be 'heavy' with its members, let the cream rise, and the various personallities sort themselves out. SHTF will be a tough mistress and will eleminate the deadwood.

Time has run out on me, more to come.

Heya cosmicprep,

Well put.

Preppersaurus

Has the SHTF already?

http://www.news1130.com/2013/08/08/uptick-in-number-of-food-crops-stolen-from-community-gardens/

Preppersaurus

I have been giving this post a little thought, and it is true that the way people in the interior prep vs lower mainland are very different styles of prepping. I think the people in the interior need to come to the realization that regardless of how well people down here will be recieved, it simply does not matter. Everyone, even NON-PREPPERS, look at the interior as being some sort of "refuge" from the rest of the world. It does not matter if this is truth or not, this is the way it is generally viewed as by the people down here. So no matter how you feel about it, if something disastorous enough occurs that people need to bug out, you WILL have a sudden huge wave of "refugees". I quote that term because not everyone will be the helpless in need of help typical refugee that we think of when the term is used. Therefore, you might want to consider changing the way you prep.

The way I see it, there will be two waves of people headed your way. The magnitude of the disaster will determine the size of the waves and perhaps more importantly, the space between the waves. The first wave will be people like me, and screedcrete, and other people who have the common sense to get the heck out when it is time. We are the people who ARN'T there to mooch, or take a "piece of the pie", or take advantage. We are not oppurtunist,the talkers, or tag alongs. We are the people who have put considerable time and effort into learning valuable skills that will help us and others to survive. We are the ones who have planned, and those plans usually involve family members or safe places to go that arn't on your already owned land. And we are the ones who usually have already figured out a way to feed ourselves without dipping into your preps.

The second wave of people will be the desprate. The hungry. The ones who waited around to see if the government would deliver food to their doors. The ones who believed mainstream media. The ones that didn't plan.

People of the North, you have two choices on how to prepare for these waves.

1. You can use the time you have NOW to make connections with the prepper groups down here. You can filter out the oppurtunists, the ego maniacs, the rambos, the tag alongs. You can connect with the people who have something to bring to the table. You can help them set up caches up there so that they have their own food when they arrive. You can welcome them with open arms because you have already gotten to know them and have a certain degree of trust. You can incoprate yourself into there plans to bug out and offer suggestions. Perhaps you know of trails in the area that wont be as used that would help them get to you easier. You can discuss your own plans of defense(from the 2nd wave) and jobs that they would have once arriving in your community, so everyone knows what their jobs are before they even arrive. Ie. doctory, carpenter, hunter, farmers, etc. You can completely include the first wave into your plans and include yourself into theres so that the ENTIRE group can co exsist and survive the second, larger and more dangerous wave.

Or

2. You can start buying ammo.

Thats it. Those are your two options. My point being that these waves of people will come no matter what you feel. And you know what, there are a LOT of armed people in the lower mainland too. And a lot more people. So the choice is yours. Welcome the first wave with open arms and have a chance to protect your food from the second.Or welcome nobody, and prepare for a bloodbath. I know this might sound harsh, but I believe it's true.Personally, I feel you can never have too many friends. And friends should be always welcomed. It is just a matter of who you pick and choose those friends to be.

I would bet if 80 percent of the folks in the lower main land had the chance they would go to Calgary or Edmonton. It seems every other person i meet in Edmonton has family in BC.. mostly on the Island and in the lower mainland.. From what i hear they have plans to have their familys stay here if something bad happens there. I would think most fleeing the lower main land will be looking for fuel to get to larger cities..I don't care who a person is.. If your slowing down in a car or truck and you hear gun fire the first thing people (most) think is flee the area. Its a 10 hour drive in decent weather. If a person had any food stored in the ride and spare fuel they could make alberta. If the side roads are closed off by locals how would most of the folks fleeing enter the small towns?? All food for thought.. trees across the road makes people move on.. I know of a area up here that the plans are to close off the roads from the main roads and post signs at these spots to make others reconsider entering the area. All i can say is i wish every one of you and your family well IF something happens..