It really depends on where you plan on staying put, and what your long term plan might be to keep yourself supplied and out of conflict.

I think the Nomadic groups will suffer tremendous losses constantly entering unknown territory and running into new groups which may or may not be friendly.

I think that television has altered too many peoples opinions without them really thinking things out. Try to imagine the person you would have to become if you chose the nomadic lifestyle. You would definitely be putting yourself as an invader of others domains and have to fight far more frequently for daily existence. And no matter how mean or skilled you became, any stray bullet can still drop you as easily as any other. Preparedness is not having to put yourself in that sort of situation if at all possible.

Think too of the person you and yours would likely become(in a fairly short time frame) to exist in such a manner. Once you have killed another in a "it was either him or me" scenario, would it not soon become easier to kill another for the daily bread? And then rape and plunder don't seem so bad as you crossed that moral line somewhere back there your excuse is it's kill or be killed.

Now lets look at it from the prospective of a prepper. You may endanger yourselves getting to the preplanned position, but hopefully all your forethought paid off. You have food for a period of time to get in a crop and you are situated far enough from large population that you can hopefully forage and exist peacefully with trusted allies. Should a marauder try to take that which you have, you can morally satisfy your conscience that you only defended yourself and life hopefully goes on as before. You teach morals to those younger and hope they too can pass this concept on so as to maintain a just society in a crazy time....

I dunno....you choose!

If everyone choose a nomadic lifestyle, it would be bumper to bumper people roaming around,
not to mention , what would happen in the winter with the snow and cold ?
I'm sure if everyone was nomadic and looking for an abandoned safe and warm dry shelter , there would be none left,
let alone firewood and wild things to forage would become scarce.

Staying put and getting your ducks in a row is wiser. People will eventually run out of bullets, food,
and essentials, etc . Having all the stuff you have prepped , such as a garden, seeds, extra clothing , 2 years of food, water supply etc
where ever you " STAY PUT " or have your BOL, is very wise. You have something to build on.
( you can't carry all the stuff on your back with extra bedding, clothing, and "stuff" that will last forever )
People would eventually need to settle somewhere and attempt to rebuild their lives.

Now if it was an evacuation from something like a flood, hurricane , forest fire, chemical spill etc,
in an area, everyone has to get out and hope to be able to return .

Prepping is not all just about End of the World, SHTF, and guns there are numerous other natural
disaster, events , and situations.

What I am writing about is years after TSHTF.

When I wrote about nomad existence I was thinking about the first nation people here that had their summer foraging area for berries and other plants, fertile ground to grow crops, moving with the animals....summer-fall harvesting the salmon run. Good winter area to live through the cold weather. Trading with others.

I think if TSHTF that the population will greatly decrease in the first year and the scenario of killing and raping will mostly have happen in the beginning but years later it is interesting to wonder what kind of society we will evolve into. Not everyone will turn into murdering raping monsters, we are after all civilized and well educated not savages. There will still be some of us, no I believe a lot of us, that will keep our values and act in a ethical manner. Law and order of some kind will be rebuilt over time.

Assuming I was still alive, years after, I would still be honkered down and stay put as my gardens would have evolved , and
I would have found locals to trade with.

Now this is nothing against you saying it, because others have said it, but I wonder why people do speak of the raping in the first years ?
Does SHTF bring out the desire in men to rape women ? Is it because we watch so many movies with such violence , so we assume it would increase ?
We do hear of it in war situations.
And what type of man that never thought of raping a woman before now start to rape in a SHTF ? Is it a all men would do this ? or most men ? or just
some more men than it it currently is ? or is it something many men want todo but don't because of the law and in SHTF there is no law.

So would rape increase dramatically or just slightly ?

I am curious here so that women may protect themselves differently in SHTF than they do today and be aware of what to avoid
or maybe decide to trust no men at all ?

I've been wondering about the same thing...being female. Like WTF TSHTF and we all become savages and forget all that we have been taught. And the men are all just waiting for something like this to happen so they can go out and rape women and children. I don't thing so.

I think we should put together a women prepper group. I'm told there is nothing worst to go up against than a woman defending her young. Mother bear at her worst. I know I would be.

The other thing I have to wonder about are the ones that are going to go and get a gun and go shoot some meat. I can tell you that as soon as hunting season opens the animals become very scarce. So you get an animal, most people don't know how to dress it properly and you can't survive on just meat alone where do you get the rest of the vitamin and minerals your body need. I think money and time would be better spent learning how to grow and harvest plants....be it from your garden or forage in the bush. You can survive and be quite healthy eating a vegetarian or vegan diet. But just meat and if you have it dairy just mean an increase in heart disease, stroke and other vascular diseases.

Throughout history, in any conflict, immoral standards become norm as there is less chance of authorities catching up with them. It is our justice system that stops those individuals from just taking what they want. One of my posts (under Ukraine Update) has a psychologist countering the premiss of those innocent young students in west Ukraine that are volunteering the fight those in the east most likely want to act our their fantasies of aggression in an environment where they can get away with it without repercussion. The same would therefore go for those Russians who volunteer to fight for the east. (The major difference for those in the east is that they have to fight for continued existence or face future discrimination from the west).

It is a shame that this is an inevitable issue we should prepare for too because history has a way of repeating itself. Justice only comes when those who are strong are willing to defend those who are weak from those who will take advantage of the weak..

And as for the just eating meat. The protein diet is what alot of Inuit people have lived on for centuries. They get essential oils from fish and whale and really have low body fat other than in the face. Also they had found fewer cavities in their earlier ancestors burial grounds as there are no sugars in protein such as meat to rot the teeth. Some theorists believe this protein diet better explains why natives have a weaker tolerance to alcohol as they are made from grains (unproven supposition). The biggest problem with a protein diet is mainly lack of potassium. A balanced diet is best all way round and gardening is therefore a better, more healthy existence in the long run.

"The protein diet is what alot of Inuit people have lived on for centuries

This only describes one group of people that live way up north in the artic. I thinking the rest of the province/planet and how will people get a balanced diet of not only macronutrients but more important micronutrients with only hunting and eating animal protein. Hence the need to become well versed in the variety of native plants, how to find or grow them and what nutrients they have. That is why a tribe was made up of hunters and gathers.

O.K. So you spend your money and time building up your properties . Food stores and gardens etc. In 16 months the major downturn in the U.S. economy. Jobs start being lost at a great rate. You have a home all stocked up but you lose your job then so does your partner. The bank wants its payments but you cannot make it. And fall further and further behind. Finally, you lose your home and gardens maybe even your water storage. And move to a cheaper house, which probably means an apartment. The food you have been storing has been "dipped" into just to put food on the table. Your in the middle of the city in a small apartment possible with another group either friends or family. The economy has gotten a lot worse and the price of everything is skyrocketing. Due to the decline of the cattle and pig stocks meat costs are to much to afford. Gas has gotten to an all time high adding ...so they say.... to the price of food. Now your in a city of people struggling to make it day to day. Crime goes up ...way up as people get desperate.
If you do not own your home or have enough money to pay your property tax. You are going to lose your home. Prep your property to survive until then. But prepare for an alternative. Bugging out does not mean wandering around the streets. Training yourself to live away from society. Not by yourself , fine, I only trust family. None prep. I will have to be a teacher too. The woods are not the woods of 500 years ago and your decision to move to an area is very important. Buy property and you are going to have the same problem as the guy above. You will still have to pay your taxes. The government will have a paper trail to lead them right to you. ~ good luck~

Or you can get farm status and never be foreclosed on. 😉

Garlowin, I think you hit the nail on the head as you describe a soft economic collapse and it's progressive effects that will beat down the majority of the people in a slow death. What will also likely occur during this type of a collapse is that the people would rise against their government as they demand change, and riots and robbery become everyday events too. Many feel this threat and accept that the only thing to do is nothing.

But to even raise your status even one step further from economic failure is at least a start. In this way you maybe won't be some the first to face financial collapse, for those people will be the ones who lose all. When banks finally face multitudes of foreclosures, they will then learn to ignore those who are still squatting in a house that was repossessed so as not to have it destroyed while sitting vacant, as many were in areas of the US.

The way to prevent total loss is to react now instead of later. To sell your house at a lesser price and keep even a little equity is better than losing it altogether. Maybe post a free add to trade down your house for a lesser house another wants to trade up on. Sell things you don't use or that you really don't need. To sell a house while the market is high is always the best bet and then buy a house or even just a property further out in a cheaper area, yet still within commuting distance, in which you could put a used mobile home on. Many of us see the instability in the present economy and know we should act, it's just the starting that stops us.

I live in a small town that has lost almost all of it's industry, yet they are about to finally restart a sawmill that has been closed for 6 years. With the economy being like it is, many of us see it as temporary at best but I am fixing my house up to sell during this small boom. I have concluded that if I cannot sell my machine shop for a decent price, I'll turn it into half house and live there instead to reduce taxes and have no house payments anymore. When and if things pick up, I'll buy another house or wait until my shop sells first. At least I will have cut my present expenses in half which means I can last twice as long. This seems a better option that selling any of our harleys, cause that is how we see things 😕

Agreed on the mortgage issue and going down in flames. Also holds true for groups going in on land purchases which I have already been privy too. At least for a short time until I questioned the obvious as the last few postings have as well. Mortgage holders of ANYkind will be OUT. Renters when not meeting requirements will be OUT. There are always others whom have more and will be as you say selling homes and getting into the concrete apartments and if I can pay my rent IM OUT!

So again, in a WORL situation I believe That a rural "Lone Wolfe" as you all seem to put it is a really good alternative. Just because one walks, runs, or crawls off into the woods does not ALWAYS mean they are a vagabond, gypsy, or a marauder Im sure. SOME of us have a very stout set of ethics that will not allow these possibilities. If I put myself into a position of having nothing to loose, but have the skills to see myself through why would I risk an attack on another party that I clearly will not be apart of? I would not. So what does that leave me? It leaves me defending what? I don't have the re-loading, powder, lead, casings, massive food cashes, farming equipment, crops, shelter, to protect, but I can be a sustainable human spirit on my own, and I present no danger to you.

Take now the ones whom build up their fortress. Gain members even and try to hold it all together mentally while trying to hold down the fort. Pretty big stand-off coming up. The fortress doesn't move and now that the outside is creeping up on you you cannot run or hide. Your a slave to your provisions and all the while your numbers don't change but the outside numbers DO. People get the word out fast there is something behind door #3 and Ill tell you what, your not going to win that war. Your not going to have a chance. HOWEVER TAKE NOTE that those whom group up and HAVE the fortress will be the ones coming out when supplies are done on the ammo, food, women, and such. YUP If you won't let me have your woman and I can't go get my own woman but here I sit looking at yours. (you have heard the term) keep your friends close and your enemies closer? It will be the groups that need MORE. Its the groups that will loot as they have the numbers. Its the groups you need to really really be aware of. WATCH that movie we talked about with the apartment dwellers in the basement and you tell me you want to be in a group? Ill tell you what,… from what I have PERSONALLY seen with my own eyes and heart have told me NO. In just about every group situation I find a tremendous amount of flaws or "red flags" lets say.

So the "Lone Wolfe" walks out into the woods now what? I got a shelter, guns and ammo. I have some basic long term storage happening with the odd cash along the way to get me there maybe. I have what I carry I pose no threat. Better beware others don't find me you say as they will at least want my shelter and how to avoid that??? I go where no man will go and how? You harvest and hunt and you build yourself an awesome little abode. In a WORL time I have no desire to jump from the pan back into the fire and come back to a community. A community of what? A bunch of frazzled, twisted diabolical beings which are most of the walking dead as we speak. So many on prescription meds, with twisted, desensitized minds really?

I believe that this approach is both economical to do, will get you back to nature and in shape, and allow you to make better prepping decisions and strides of accomplishments during the slow roll. It frees up funds to do so in case of a calamity, all the while putting you in a good position overall if a dire situation were to occur.

One cannot take my skills, will power, work ethic, and working knowledge out there. One will never harness me to provide my skills for a reason. And one will never even have a chance at getting too me, due to all the limiting factors mentioned. I have nothing you want and want none of yours. When I get there Im quiet and stealthy, as just by the nature of not having NOR needing any machinery. I am providing for a few only. You will not hear me nor see me. You have no reason, or desire, and in most cases even the physical ability to get to me and my location.

The more you have the more you want. The more you want the more you need. The more you need the more you go get,…..

Looks pretty self explanatory to me. Then again Iv been called nuts in more ways than a few so its a good damn thing I don't care what others think 😀

Just my .02

... I believe That a rural "Lone Wolfe" as you all seem to put it is a really good alternative.

... It will be the groups that need MORE. Its the groups that will loot as they have the numbers. Its the groups you need to really really be aware of. WATCH that movie we talked about with the apartment dwellers in the basement and you tell me you want to be in a group?

... So the "Lone Wolfe" walks out into the woods now what? I got a shelter, guns and ammo. I have some basic long term storage happening with the odd cash along the way to get me there maybe. I have what I carry I pose no threat. Better beware others don't find me you say as they will at least want my shelter and how to avoid that??? I go where no man will go and how?

One cannot take my skills, will power, work ethic, and working knowledge out there.

Some good comments to contemplate. Now you could still be a lone wolfe and honker down. Except you still need to be prepared for the groups to raid
your stuff and will need to make it look like you have nothing they would want. I believe there will be alot of lone wolfs , since it is so hard for preppers to find a person
or two to trust, let alone a group . So perhaps we need another thread to discuss prepping for loner wolfes, tactics, ideas, tips, etc

I've been wondering about the same thing...being female. Like WTF TSHTF and we all become savages and forget all that we have been taught. And the men are all just waiting for something like this to happen so they can go out and rape women and children. I don't thing so.

I think we should put together a women prepper group. I'm told there is nothing worst to go up against than a woman defending her young. Mother bear at her worst. I know I would be.

Feel free to bring this topic over to the womens group here on the board- farmgal

Who is going to be leading the eviction team foreclosing on properties if the world is in such a bad spot that we even have to think about bugging out or in? I think at that point the bankers will be worrying about their own families and lives. Who owns what will be debatable.