Sustainable Communities For BC

Good ideas.
Keep them coming.

We need your good ideas too, Captain Ahab. They are probably better than mine.

I think i understand what your thinking chicoltin. Example, that other thread about grain suppliers in van. I live close to that supplier. so say i planned to go camping in your area. so u and several other preppers place an order, i load up my truck with goods, meet u up there and pass them off. now u just happened tohave an amazing salmon catch this year and your freezers r packed. More fish then u could eat. sockeye here as of yesterday was 8.99 a pound, expensive. but i lov it.so in exchange u give me like ten big fish or whatever, just pulling random numbers out. now u got wat u needed, i got wat i needed and we did it all without the needof direct money transaction between us. in the long run weve both in fact saved money. this can be done with everything, we just need to learn who can get what for the cheapest then arrange it. Is this close to wat ur thinking?
so my next question is wat do ppl need? And wat can ppl provide?

aaronbourge, you have the principle down pat. There is almost nothing including building supplies, labor, rental agreements etc. help building a cabin, that can't be handled in this way. I think before we can get this fully up and running so that the greatest # are benefiting (the more people the more there is to trade) we are going to have to get people into a sharing info mode. Up to this point I use private messaging for private info, and am working on meeting one or two face to face. In my own case I have lived in this area long enough that several of my neighbours and I already use this barter system. Works well because we know each other.

And don't forget you are using after tax dollars to buy $8.99 salmon. In reality you have to earn 13.00 in salary before taxes to pay for that salmon. keep safe.

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Yes Im liking this idea too. And the more I thought about it the more it makes sense. you see, where the money system fails is it has a set price on everything and the price never goes down, only up. But the thing I like about the barter system is the fact that EVERYTHING has a different value depending on the person thats trading it for it. Again using my above example, if chicoltin has a freezer full of more fish then he can eat, and he caught these fish, then they are practically worthless to him. But these bulk grains that I got for him are very valuable becase theyre harder to buy where he is (in this scenario anyways). But for me the grains are easy to come by and the fish is extremely valuable because its so expensive down here. So if we made this trade for ten fish, Im walking away feeling that I got a hell of a deal this fish would have costed me hundreds of dollars in the city. Hes also walking away feelng he got a good deal because those fish were practically worthless to him he has plenty. We are both walking away feeling like we've in fact "profited". The point of this isnt to make a profit off eachother. The point is that everythings value is based on the individual, not the entire economy. Does this make sense?

And like you said its not just items that can be bartered. skill, and labor too. There are dog trainers on here, why not train someones dog in exchange for food or supplies of some kind? There are elderly preppers on here whose bodies are no longer able to handle the stress of building a cabin, or plowing a field. One of the young guys gives them the labor they require in exchange for crops or whatever right? Everybody has something to offer. everybody has value. I think a lot of people dont even know what they have to offer, including myself. But maybe we can help find the value in everybody through networking.

Now we're talking!!!

Aaron, you have expressed the concept better than I could. At first when we enter the barter arena there is a tendency to convert back to dollars in our mind to establish if we came out of the deal on top. The lack of structure to the system can be strange at first. Once you know the people, you stop doing that and work on an altogether different plain. It's the "what goes around, comes around" principle.

Let me illustrate. Nobody in our community (except me) would formally classify themselves as preppers. By federal government standards we would be classified as dirt poor (below the official poverty line), housing is crowded and jobs are a challenge to find. Three weeks ago my mother-in-law passed away at the age of 95 and this remote community prepared to bury one of its own. TV ads caution us that even a simple funeral can cost 10,000 and they are not lying, but no one I know carries this kind of insurance. Any of you who have been through this realize how overwhelmed the family becomes by the unfamiliar regulations and details that have to be dealt with right away. Nobody in this area uses a hearse, too expensive. Bodies are brought back in coffins on the back of an open pickup.

Here's what happened. Our community has 300 regular population. Two days before the funeral people began arriving from everywhere, the lower mainland, Van. Island, Alberta, up north. people who didn't have rides made their own arrangements to be picked up. One guy hitch hiked from Bella Coola, a trip that takes 7 hours when you drive the distance as fast as you can go. A thousand people showed up and had to be fed and housed over a period of three days. The funeral procession behind the pickup carrying the casket travelled 70 miles and was over 2 miles long. back in the community foamies and extra blankets were dug out of closets and everyone who needed to had a place to sleep on someone's living room floor, or in a tent. Someone collected donations and purchased 2000 dollars of food, someone butchered a cow and donated it, cooks showed up at the community centre. many must have brought some food with them because the tables were loaded. Nobody was in charge but everything got done. There was music, visiting. Then everybody left. When it was all over we sat down and asked ourselves, "what the hell just happened here?". How could 300 people have the resources to look after 1000 additional people, feed then, house them, and make them feel welcome? I think I know. This community is forced to survive by prepper principles, barter if you will, what goes around comes around, everyone helps everyone, no dollar value is placed on what we do.

My mother-in-law raised 16 children in a one room cabin, never went to school, but had the equivalent of a PhD in plant knowledge and natural ways of living. She worked everyday until midnight until she was 90 but spent hours visiting with anyone who dropped by. She was generous to a fault, shared what little she had and fought through hardships with courage. When she died the community paid her back. There is an old saying, If you are starving, don't go to the rich for help. They will tell you to get a job and slam the door in your face. Go to the poor for food. They know what hunger feels like, and will give you something to eat.

Chicoltin first Im sorry for the loss. But I think its amazing how an event like this can bring the whole community together. There is where our modern society has begun to fail. This whole concept reminds me of the Omish or menonite communites in a way. The fact that these people all come together to raise a barn in a single day. Theres a job for everyone. Men do the labor, the raising, the carpentry, the whole works. The woman all come together and put together a feast for all to enjoy once the work is done. The children bring water to the men during the day. Its the fact that theres a job for everyone, and as a result they get things done. It would take somebody like me a month to do what these people do in a single day.
Its also kind of reminds me of the way natives used to do things. You didnt hunt for yourself, you hunted for the village. No single person starved. either the whole village thrived or the whole vilage perished. All for one, one for all. I also liked how they conducted their trade. In a lot of cases the entire village would bring what they have for trade and put all the items into a single pile. Then one person would handle the negotiations. Negotiation itself was a valuable skill. Think about it, could you make much money as a car salesman? I couldnt, but someone skilled in the arts of negotiation can make hundreds of thousands in a year selling used vehicles. Ive seen it. So this one person would handle the bartering. The event would be a day long thing with the smoking of the pipe and the discussing. when the deal was sealed the goods that were traded were distributed among the entire village. Everybody got what they needed.
It just really makes more sense then the monetary system.

If we network carefully money need not be a barrier in our preparations. Perhaps I will change my tune after the results of the Greek election are announced later today. Aaron is right. Working for money as in a salary instead of working for the quality of life we want for ourselves and family, has the power to isolate us within society. We all need some income. I am not intending to give up sugar, and coffee, insurance on my vehicles, citrus fruit, my rototiller, or a host of other things, not yet anyway. These require money in the form of some kind of income. When I lived in Victoria ( the only city I would have considered living in if it were not for the danger of earthquake and Tsunami), I paid 1500 a month for a rental, bought most of my food, paid through the nose for admission fees for almost all forms of entertainment, and on and on. My family enjoys a better quality of life in an entirely different part of the province, and much much cheaper. 80% of most people's salaries goes to taxes, food and shelter. If one is living in the right area 80% of these expenses disappear. Where we live is very much a matter of personal taste (some people love cities), or necessity (job etc.)

Strange as it may sound in this day and age there are places to live in this province (and I am not talking about the northern tundra ) where property taxes are low or nil, 80% of your food is free, and housing can be inexpensive. This is where Aaron's point about money comes in. Money you save is non taxable income. The location in which you live plus your ability to barter determines your discretionary income.

Another example of my endless illustrations (please forgive me). A family decides to have a family time holiday, camping to save money, and fishing, hiking, swimming etc. Excellent plan. Let's assume no credit cards will be used, but you have one in case the car breaks down. This family has saved up all year and has set aside 1000 for a nice trip. But because you are paying cash for everything you had to earn 1330 dollars in salary before taxes to have the 1000 after taxes. The trip in a barter system could have been practically free, and that is why people who barter through their network can live just as well as anybody else with far less salary. Keep safe everyone. Economic woes they are a comin

Hi Gang
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Old Scout

preppers Housing: http://pyramidome.blogspot.com/

I think this is such a great idea, and I wish more people would jump on board for this type of community networking. I'm all for it.

This a great idea and everyone ... loves talking about it