O.K. so let's say the U.S. economy does crash and the dollar becomes basically worthless. What does that mean ? What is everyone's opinion on the first few months after ? In the Harbinger, the date for this is Sept 13/15. IDK if that's true but I wonder that events will immediately follow.

It depends upon what kind of job you have. Where would the money still go? So think about it like a conservative electorate would think about it, mainly, what kind of services have to go. Let's think about the private sector. Lots of people are already losing their jobs in media and corporate development as technology advances. Many trades people would be put out of work, only the ones that are absolutely necessary would prevail.

Many companies would fall under, and I'd hate to say it, but I think government would become the largest and most prominent employer, hell they practically already are. But even then many services would go to hell. There would be garbage everywhere, streets would be filthy, many roads out of service, little response to things like floods and disasters, car accidents etc. All services would be slower and much less reliable, not just because everywhere would be understaffed, but also because people would be getting paid so little, no one would really get paid enough to care about anything.

Alcohol and drug use would go up, as private sector, or rather black market has nothing to lose from people hitting hard times.

Crime and punishment would go up, much like a third world country, crime would be easier to get away with and the consequences would be much more serious. There's nothing poor and uneducated people get off on like punishing other poor and uneducated people trying to eat. Everything would be a lot less safer.

Also massive migration of work force. People would become labour refugees.

That's all I can think of.

I doubt that anyone can predict such a thing accurately but I agree that it is inevitable. Just like running your credit card into the maximum with no means to make your next payment, others determine that your credit is no good and it's downhill on a slippery slope. The trickle down effect will hit us all and then it depends on where you are as to how bad it may get. If the man at the water plant doesn't get paid, he isn't going to come to work tomorrow.... and especially because he likely also has to protect his family instead because of other threats occurring near home. City folks will definitely have it the worst as chaos will ensue there easiest and recovery will be the slowest. Crime will occur everywhere and even country folk will face various shortages.

Many will leave the cities and return to a simpler life of growing gardens as they make deals with local farmers to help work their land for a share in the harvest. Many others will die when they run out of such options and resort to criminal means. Shootings and hanging could become commonplace for even menial crimes until proper order is returned. And order will return quickly to those areas who apply such strict measures over those who would prefer to steal rather than work. Plants and factories will reopen when pipelines of trade and commerce find new ways to exchange goods for other goods. And once again we adapt.

This. I don't know why you country people say this. If I walk outside I'm probably gonna see a cop, there are 600000 cops in the GTA. Hardly a safer place. I had a buddy who broke his collar bone riding his bike, people gave him water a doctor came out of nowhere, they treated him until the ambulance showed up. I've seen a group of people screaming for help, stopping traffic, and even attempting mouth to mouth resuscitation with a complete stranger when he dropped from a heart attack on the street. When you get hurt here a crowd will gather to help. I've seen this so often.

There is no community like a major metropolis. Were closer together than anybody in the country. I see the same faces EVERY MORNING on the way to work at multiple subway stops out of tens of thousands. All shipments go through us and disperse to the outer satellite towns and cities. Were the most liberal place, this town is made off of people from all incomes and backgrounds sharing space, hell, the same block. Not to mention we have the most jobs AND the most unemployed. Always will.

Of course the shootings and stabbings happen, the GTA outnumbers most towns by 50-100 times. In retrospect its one of the safest places in the country. It's a joke when you guys talk about cities tearing themselves apart. You guys can go around killing anybody in the country and police response is how long??? You own a gun here and they know. You take out a gun here and you're dead. You're dead, the police will kill you. Nobody wants that !@#$.

So the choice is, stay in the cities and be poor and oppressed by the state, or leave for the country and survive in some post apocalyptic nightmare where there are gangs and thieves armed and roaming, with virtually no police presence.

I like you Knuckles, you're a hardcore dude, but I gotta ask have you ever even lived in a city over a million people?

I like you Knuckles, you're a hardcore dude, but I gotta ask have you ever even lived in a city over a million people?

😆 I grew up in the bush and then left for 23 years to live mostly in Alberta. Close to 20 years was in Calgary and some as a policeman 😕 . I spent a year in Toronto going to college as a machinist too. In fact it was a stabbing at a party that my oldest son was at that made me decide to sell the house and try to teach my kids the country lifestyle. Since my twins were 17 then, they soon returned to the city life with the youngest later following. Seems I still have to go to the city to see the grandkids these days when their parents can't get away. Between being a P/O and driving ambulance, I figured I've seen enough misery to feel able to make measures as I do.

When I lived in TO in 1985, it was near Eglington & Dufferin, amongst the Italians. I lived with 2 other bikers who weren't saints even in their mother's eyes. The police answered complaints often twice a week on my block and yet never to my door. The neighborhood consisted of Italians and Sicilians and they fought often. Luckily they all thought it best to leave us out of their crap! The Outlaws clubhouse was just down the road and folks likely thought we were part of their crowd. So it seems I know a bit about the GTA area too. And being a biker I have seen areas you probably wouldn't go to if you were invited. Good luck with surviving bad times there as I can't think of a region I'd rather not be then around there during a crisis. Calgary was far friendlier then GTA and yet being there during last years floods showed me the potential nature of human populace just at the pumps and stores.

yet when I describe even road rage to country folk, they think I'm exaggerating when I'm really even toning it down...that's the difference I see and why I live here now!

I've lived in T.O. (9 years in some good and some not-so-good areas), and in Calgary (the burbs in the SE) for nearly seven years. I now live in extreme rural SW Manitoba. I grew up in rural Ontario. Like Knuckle, I'll take rural -- every time.

Right on. Yeah so you got some experience for sure. Toronto in 1985, jeez I envy you. Don't get me wrong I heard of violence, I knew a guy who got stabbed up downtown, and that old woman who was followed into an elevator and got her nose cut off, and that cleaner lady who was followed and stabbed to death. But like I said the amount per people is equal to anywhere else in Canada.

I myself originate from the Niagara countryside. First three jobs I ever had was in agriculture. A lot of my inspiration comes from those years. I like the fact I'm used to the countryside and the thick stinking city. I like the extremes and I think the perspective suits me well.

The thing, or side effect, about the great social consciousness of Toronto is that although everyone looks out for each other, the initial first impression and attitude is that Toronto crowd lacks sincerity and good manners. This is true, These people are assholes up front, but I know first hand when someone is in mortal trouble, everyone rallies.

My son's witnessing of a stabbing is the final straw that convinced me to sell and move to the country. Yet I think sometimes such a wake up call is what many need sometimes as a reminder to whats really going on around us. I have seen both the good and bad come out in people in a variety of situations. Between being an ambulance driver and a P/O, I preferred ambulance because I was definitely helping others in times of need. Being an MP, there were many times that I felt that "fine line" was getting crossed even though I was just following orders. I'd say that both trades showed me the self-centered attitudes of man during critical times.

Taking some preventative measures so maybe you won't later have to choose between violent and non-violent means of protecting those you love seems a simple choice. Having a First Aid kit and the basic know-how to maybe save a life seems a better option compared to possibly taking someones life instead. Being prepared in case you might still have to deal with the dark side of human nature can also be a precautionary measure, but letting visions of Rambo type TV warfare completely own your thoughts is a major warning that the dark side is totally taking over. I got to meet a lot of those types when I was an MP and some of them even wore a badge and sat in the front seat of a patrol car.

I never quite understood how normal people could cross over that moral line enough to allow themselves to become something evil to society. Yet I did walk a few of those roads that would eventually lead there. I know that I was an adrenaline junky in my youth and therefore preferred some action in my life compared to the everyday humdrum routine. I have tried to blame things such as nationality for short tempers after living with Italians and working with the French, but then I meet those who are mild and my theories no longer held merit. So I blamed one's upbringing as the discerning factor until I met those who proved this theory wrong too. I have done this same routine for factors such as one's height, appearance, wealth, social status, etc., with still no defined answer. Since I cannot predict who will step over the edge, I must assume that each of us has that potential, given the right circumstance.

And when I read that 81% of Canadians live in cities, and that we are just 9 meals away from anarchy should a crisis occur, I cannot contest either of these facts. When I hear that a normal man is willing to steal for his family within 3 days and kill within 7 just to fulfill an animal instinct to protect their young, I cannot contest that either. yet to stockpile some food for 72 hours is likely within everyone's budget. To even have a months supply is doable. But to trust that your neighbours are going to band together and help you when they are facing a crisis themselves is simply irresponsible. You are betting your loved ones lives on this decision. You are trusting that your government can fix the problem before chaos knocks on YOUR door. i agree that most events that occur are temporary. But have you ever considered that for each person that takes some precautions, there is then one less person that will apply further strain on society that could lead to a possible collapse into chaos? You don't have to be part of the solution, but at least don't become part of the problem!

It is also becoming obvious that the city lifestyle has it's own issues. Are your children's lives better or worse for your choice of city living? Are they more independent or less due to this? Are they more trusting or less? Are they a more well-rounded individual in overall knowledge or less? I often noted that most city folks assume that country folk are simple and less knowledgeable. Yet I'd bet that most useful advice being given in this forum is from the country folk. I'd also bet that most of us country folk had a taste of city life long enough to form a better, unbiased opinion over which is the better choice. I'm also betting that most city folk didn't fair long enough in the country before they had to rush back to that which they knew, to form as honest an opinion on this subject. And it is on this biased opinion that you now judge where to raise a family.

Opening one's eyes even just enough to even admit that we are witnessing events like never before seen in our lifetime is a start! Becoming part of the solution instead of part of the problem is your next move in the right direction. Getting your loved ones out of harms way earlier means that you have vastly improved your chances so you won't likely have to choose between two bad options later on. And in the meantime, you have likely gotten further out of debt and reduced your stress levels too. But for this, you have to give up the convenience of running to your nearest 7-11 and eating McDonald's crap daily. Is that really a bad thing? Oh ya, and you might have to learn some country skills first to be useful! 😯

Well, Just to mix things up a bit...SingleCells comment were rude...But we have all done it before. I have...and thought better of it afterward. We attack the person instead of the idea. We are all just gazing in crystal balls and theorising. That's why we come together to bounce ideas off each other.

Singlecell has a point. I remember the first time someone said to me, "I think the golden hoard theory is just wrong. People move towards the city in a crisis. Not the other way around." I went, WTF. After thinking about it a while I realised he was correct. My bet is still on the farm and the relative safety it provides (But I am on my own here relatively). Refugees flee out of a city during a civil war, a common result of the instability from separatists or opportunists during a financial collapse. We see that in Ukraine at the moment...but in an economic down turn...refugees move towards the cities (and slums) hoping to find any work they can get at any wage. Thus the 80% city population. Consider Toronto becoming like Mexico City. Yikes. In a small town, If one industry shuts down...that's all she wrote for the small town. I just thought I would throw that into the pot to keep us from getting prepper tunnel vision. We are all just guessing at what the future holds and how to best position ourselves.

I doubt that anyone can predict such a thing accurately but I agree that it is inevitable. Just like running your credit card into the maximum with no means to make your next payment, others determine that your credit is no good and it's downhill on a slippery slope. The trickle down effect will hit us all and then it depends on where you are as to how bad it may get. If the man at the water plant doesn't get paid, he isn't going to come to work tomorrow.... and especially because he likely also has to protect his family instead because of other threats occurring near home. City folks will definitely have it the worst as chaos will ensue there easiest and recovery will be the slowest. Crime will occur everywhere and even country folk will face various shortages.

Many will leave the cities and return to a simpler life of growing gardens as they make deals with local farmers to help work their land for a share in the harvest. Many others will die when they run out of such options and resort to criminal means. Shootings and hanging could become commonplace for even menial crimes until proper order is returned. And order will return quickly to those areas who apply such strict measures over those who would prefer to steal rather than work. Plants and factories will reopen when pipelines of trade and commerce find new ways to exchange goods for other goods. And once again we adapt.

This. I don't know why you country people say this. If I walk outside I'm probably gonna see a cop, there are 600000 cops in the GTA. Hardly a safer place. I had a buddy who broke his collar bone riding his bike, people gave him water a doctor came out of nowhere, they treated him until the ambulance showed up. I've seen a group of people screaming for help, stopping traffic, and even attempting mouth to mouth resuscitation with a complete stranger when he dropped from a heart attack on the street. When you get hurt here a crowd will gather to help. I've seen this so often.

There is no community like a major metropolis. Were closer together than anybody in the country. I see the same faces EVERY MORNING on the way to work at multiple subway stops out of tens of thousands. All shipments go through us and disperse to the outer satellite towns and cities. Were the most liberal place, this town is made off of people from all incomes and backgrounds sharing space, hell, the same block. Not to mention we have the most jobs AND the most unemployed. Always will.

Of course the shootings and stabbings happen, the GTA outnumbers most towns by 50-100 times. In retrospect its one of the safest places in the country. It's a joke when you guys talk about cities tearing themselves apart. You guys can go around killing anybody in the country and police response is how long??? You own a gun here and they know. You take out a gun here and you're dead. You're dead, the police will kill you. Nobody wants that !@#$.

So the choice is, stay in the cities and be poor and oppressed by the state, or leave for the country and survive in some post apocalyptic nightmare where there are gangs and thieves armed and roaming, with virtually no police presence.

I like you Knuckles, you're a hardcore dude, but I gotta ask have you ever even lived in a city over a million people?

In the right situation cities will disintegrate because they have too much population and not enough resource generating capacity. Doesn't matter how nice the people are.

That said, I don't think a dollar collapse will compromise basic infrastructure. The govt will say "Ok, nobody's getting paid but it's ok. Everybody keep doing your jobs and we'll look after each other." Yes there will be trouble, but the country won't explode.

I don't know anything of the stock markets but I have seen some of the investment sites in my web travels say to get out of the US stocks because they are only backed by the US dollar whereas a collapse can affect Cdn economy but not destroy it totally. In fact the US economy would have to face all these drastic events before Canada did as here too, they would be the greatest hit due to it being their currency. Most companies affiliated with the US would share the burden greater than those not because those failing industries in the US may drag them down with them.

I too agree that in the past, our ancestors ran to the castle for protection from invading forces, but they were often starved out if the enemy camped outside for too long. This scenario doesn't fit modern day society to consider it still a plausible pattern to repeat. As a video on hurricane Katrina showed, over 300 officers didn't show for work as they were busy protecting their loved ones instead. Who could blame them. I know that I too will help my fellow man if in need, but I am wary enough to be somewhat prepared for the possibility that he might be setting me up also. The chances of facing violence increase drastically for those living in the city versus those in the country. They are much greater even now and still more so during a crisis.

When you say that folks in the city came together and helped those in need, how many of them did you know personally? You saw a few examples on TV, right? I mean help out as in provide food, clothing, and offer shelter. The % is very low compared to that of country folk like C5 did just going over and helping a neighbor for days at a time. I lived in the city and in a variety of locations. In Calgary alone from Bowness to Forest Lawn, Hawkwood to Castleridge. Some decent neighbours but overall most wouldn't let you in their car if you asked for a ride anywhere because that is what city folk don't do...unless you look really wimpy or something...then maybe...I dunno cause I don't. 😎

If I walk outside I'm probably gonna see a cop, there are 600000 cops in the GTA. Hardly a safer place.

I bet Sammy Yatim disagrees! All your nice friendly downtown folks are probably great people, but when they miss 3 consecutive latte's and instagram is down for 4 days......I bet they aren't quite as cordial. 😆 😆

I'm raising my own chickens this year....I was talking to a neighbor who runs a chicken processing plant. He told me they process 80,000 chickens PER DAY for Vancouver city alone. That is one plant....where do you suppose 2,615,000 people in one city are going to get food from if things start to get bad and businesses start to shut down? Who is feeding the 600,000 friendly cops and their families? How long will they keep showing up to work?

I wish you the best, but I will prefer to be around as few people as possible when things go bad. 😀 😀

I assume that if the US dollar loses most of it 's value, Canada would likely get to see 1st hand what we might be in for in advance as their economy collapsed. Meanwhile, let's say that a city's food supply is just cut by half. Things haven't completely gone to pot and some industry functions. Rationing is in effect and the government is still in control. I'm sure that martial law would be put into effect in those areas where violence was becoming rampant. Those with connections would take advantage of those without quickly and I'd bet that things would start looking we have all seen on TV where people rush to be the first there as a food truck arrives. The strong would take from the weak as soon as the authorities left as one expects. The weak become sick and no one tries very hard to heal them because that means maybe more food for their loved ones. I'm figuring that fast food chains are shut down because they'd likely suffer a fast death in a hyper inflated economy caused by food shortage. The majority would be cutting corners as their savings only buy half that it used to? Companies that were surviving before no longer can sell anything but those essential items and this causes further closures and therefore higher unemployment. How long could a government feed people who aren't paying taxes? Those with more money will obviously outlast those with less. The same thing will go for those in the country, but most country folk will likely have gardens, or fish and hunt to reduce the effects somewhat.

Is this an exaggeration of what it would be like when some food still gets into the cities? So anarchy isn't complete, but things would be far less pleasant for those in the cities. Where I live is already feeling the pangs of inflation more than many areas, as much of our industry is gone and taxes are stupid high. Yet you could shut off all commerce here and folks here would still manage because most would just start hunting tomorrow. I drove 25 miles up the road yesterday and spot 5 moose on the way. We view them as a threat the same way you might if you saw a cow beside the road with no fence preventing him from jumping in front of you. Now with a little organization, the town officials would allow us to selectively harvest a few and thus we'd get by on that free meat without panicking. We can't do this for long, but likely long enough to create own trade system and therefore get by somehow.

Now TinfoilHats statement that a city need 60,000 chickens requires some fancy footwork and someones got to pay the tab. Yes, Good luck with that! The scale of the deals allows too many hands to make the trades and too many profiting at the expense of others. Even small towns have corruption, but since the cookie jar is alot smaller, it is a lot more obvious when a cookie goes missing!

I see a free for all after the crash. The gov will let people do pretty much what they want to one another as long as it doesn't affect their agenda. Population control pure and simple...Race wars, anarchists, nut jobs that are on the fringe only because the gov is in control at this point and the haves and have nots...It will be too much to control. I cant see it being business as usual. There will be a lot of people acting like animals. Its a sad fact but in the 30s when the stock market crashed at least the moral compass was in tune. Now it is so far outa wack its not even funny. The way people treat one another now a days is worse than the way animals treat one another.
There is always the group that wants to do good and then there is the majority that just simply don't care. Its a me first world and its gunna get wayyy worse!!

So...What does everyone have against Anarchists. They are usually the first ones to self organise, defend their neighbours, grow illegal gardens, exchange gunfire with vigilantly mobs as they did in New Orleans... and Spain fighting the fascists ...and the only organised group fighting and occasionally bombing the neo Nazis in Greece ...and hold some pretty spectacular ethics which is why they cant bow down to capitalists or communists. Ya...its just a misunderstood English term that gets bandied around prepper circles...but it occasionally miffs me about the lack of political understanding when that term is used. Next time you hear the word Anarchist, Think, independent self organisers... of the sort that would make Libertarians both envious and squeamish. I may have broke a, No Politics Rule, here and will accept a warning from the moderators if necessary. Its just my anarchist side willing to accept responsibility for my actions(very protestant reformationist that way) . You cant say I never give people new thing to think about. LOL

Uhh...the definition of anarchist is still just what it sounds like. And actual anarchists are something to be weary of. When the system is tetering on the brink, they'll be the ones storming the Whitehouse to finish the job. The anarchists might be the ones who survive but likely at a cost.

For the record, I don't consider someone an anarchist for growing carrots illegally.