Propane or gas generator?

Unless you just absolutely need to run high-energy items, for just a backup in normal emergencies, there's another option as well: an inverter from your car.
http://jalopnik.com/5955850/how-to-power-your-home-with-your-car
http://www.solar1234.com/
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/home_blog/2012/06/car-generator.html

It's not the most efficient, but depending on how often you expect to use it, the lower cost of the conversion kit may well wipe out the lowered efficiency.

If you have natural gas this is the cheapest, most reliable way to go. If you ever intend to transport it look for a tri - fuel. Gasoline, propane or nat gas.
Propane or natural gas engines run so clean the oil never gets black like on gasoline.

The problem I forsee with Natural gas generators is that they require natural gas. In a grid down situation the pipelines that run Natural gas to your house will also run out of power leaving you with a metal box that makes no electricity, or the government will re route the lines to make sure they have enough for themselves. I find the same problem with Propane, unless you can get a large tank outside of your house to power it. Me personally I have a diesel generator, it is whisper quiet (not cheap) and since it runs on diesel it is not only easy to get fuel as most can use bio diesel but it is a lot easier to store a large quantity of it for any SHTF or grid down senario. There are more big rigs on the road with 1000 litre tanks of diesel in them as well if things really get out of hand. I dont like gas generators as they are very noisy and use a lot of fuel to generate power.

I'd agree that diesel is the best but out of the reach of most people though as a priority item. Those cheap Champion ones sold at Walmart would get you out of a pinch and are quite quiet too. Best to leave the tank empty though until the day you need it as gas goes bad fast nowadays. The propane option is not as reliable at -20 degrees as propane no longer vaporizes and is therefore harder to start in the cold. Gas does the same thing but becomes an issue around -30 and lower. If you don't live in regions that get this cold, then you are less likely to have to consider such things. Diesels have glow plugs but those require better batteries to even start them. A can of ether (which is very flammable) often can overcome this temperature issue even on propane engines but is very hard on any motor. I have both a propane generator and a gas one and always the propane one requires far more patience to get started while it is far newer. We have at least 4 power shutdowns a year here and therefore prepare for such more often. We are at the start of the grid (since we are the supplier) as there are 3 hydro dams close by, yet only one mainline for the town's feed.

I have planned on tapping into my breaker box with a bypass for years but have yet to do it. I rely instead on a few extension cords jury rigged for a temporary get by as such mods again are considered tampering if you ever had to claim fire insurance.

I've had a Champion for a few years now...5800 continuous watts.
I have kept the same gas now for a year (with stabilizer) and start it once a month.
+ 30 or -30...never an issue.
I run it for about 20 - 30 minutes with a circular saw running just to keep it limber and charge up the starting battery.
My issue with propane generators is fuel supply...
I can get a 5 gallon gas can for about $17 - $20 and fill it anywhere I want to...I've been known to take them with me to Ottawa meetups to save a few bucks.
Propane tanks usually cost about $35...and there are only a couple of places near me that fill them.
I would check on running times myself...how long will a 20lb tank last vs a 5 gallon can of gas.
Propane does have the advantage of lasting forever though.
One other factor in deciding on a gas generator was fuel type...I did not want to store a fuel that could only be used for the genny (ie diesel)...better that I store gas that I can use in the cars, chainsaw, small 3.5hp utility motor, etc.

I was wondering how reliable the Champions were...good to know. I have an 15- 20 year old 4000 watt Honda that still runs great, with 50' cabled electric start switch. It is harder on gas than many of my friends newer units but still won't die. The propane one is an 1983 4000 watt with Onan motor (very little time on it) which most are known for reliability but not mine 😀 . Then I have the 225 Bobcat welder which is 8000 watt and quite loud with an Onan 16 HP gas motor. All are old!

Mrs Prep came in with inverter suggestions and running crap off the car and is another good option indeed. The limit of many units being under 2500 watts is fairly small amount versus the running of the car for hours. Many of these 2500 Watt units cost over $200 which is around the price of a Walmart equivalent Genset. But I did find this baby on eBay http://www.ebay.ca/itm/NEW-MOBILE-POWER-INVERTER-5000-10000-W-WATT-DC-TO-AC-/390948483496?pt=US_Power_Inverters_&hash=item5b065871a8
It was sitting at $200 with 24 bids but puts out a whopping 5000 watts continuous power. If there is one there will likely be another to bid on later... this would definitely make running the car worth it and handy everywhere as it would power much of your house's needs.

I did a thread on converting an APC battery backup(for your computers) and found 5 used ones for $25 each in the Hamiton area. Throw in a new battery and mod it as I suggested so that any car battery or other 12 volt can give you 540 watts of AC power. You don't need to buy the new battery either but then you could also use it daily for years on your computer in the meantime. I'd buy at least 3 of the 5 to make the effort worth the time.....just a thought!

I think as we prep, and time goes on , we are then possibly able to afford to rethink some areas and
start duplicating , triplicating and more, on some of our backup solutions , and in different fuel sources.

Thus possibly having more different generators with different fuel sources. There is no reason
why you can't eventually have both propane and gas.

I currently have a whole house propane generator. But I would like to explore solar power
at some point, even if it is just for lights .

I have x 3 huge upright propane tanks, each one 125 gallons ( 450 L ) . A piggie or
torpedo style would have been nice but with the regulations as where you can put them
it was too restrictive , and would have required placing the piggie style so far away from
the house and generator. Thus it made it wise for me to use these huge 125gallon sizes.

I started out with x2 tanks and added a 3rd tank this summer, after seeing the propane shortage
this past winter in Ontario and Quebec. I was then able to fill them up while the propane was
cheap and plentiful this summer. I will decide over this winter if I need to add a 4th tank.

Is it possible to get x2 large tanks and have home delivery of propane and have a hook up to your
portable propane generator , and even your barbecue ?

Sounds like you have a pretty decent setup. Do you own these large tanks outright or does the local gas company? I ask because if they own them , they will keep the tanks up to date with certification. If you own them, then this becomes an expensive proposition.

The trick with propane though is that it is in a liquid state while compressed in these tanks. So if you wish to keep them at their fullest state, you can rig an equalization hose to pour fluid from one tank into another. By placing the tank which you wish to empty above that which you wish to fill (with the drain being lowest by usually laying the tank down), gravity will transfer much of the fluid over a period of time. This won't completely empty the high tank but will empty a good 75 - 85 % before equalizing pressures hinder flow somewhat. This technique is used here at all the camps and reserves as they cycle 100 lb bottles to fill larger tanks during the warm seasons when the ice roads are out. Most of these fill hoses are hand made though as I don't think they make such things for sale. This is also the way many fill those older tanks that no longer meet government standards.

They will come to your home and fill your bulk tanks if they are approved. They will even create a hookup for your barbeque as long as it is certified too. I would do such things myself to save money as they are expensive and always to code. If the barbeque is outside the home, I doubt certification is really required regarding home insurance, but I'd still check to be safe.

I decided to purchase them . They are brand new tanks, and then I can shop around and
buy propane from whoever . It is cheaper to fill them as they don't charge an extra premium for tank rental
in the price of the propane.

Also I can paint them any colour myself, and don't have to see something in big RED letters outside

PREMIUM PROPANE 499-800-9999 24/7
SAM'S CHEAP PROPANE 599-800-9999 24/6
TOP NOTCH PROPANE 699-800-9999 24/5

Here in B.C., we have propane as our primary heat. It is not very efficient. We have a 500 lb tank that we rent for just over $100. a year. From empty the fill up costs close to $1500. The one year we ran out in early March, after having it filled in September. That's when we decided to just use the propane for cooking, and use the wood stove. I would love to have a propane generator, but that will not happen any time soon.

Wow! I didn't know that folks were advertising on bulk tanks now but I guess that it is what it is...

I know that propane is expensive and so is fuel oil as it is near what diesel fuel costs at any given time. So far wood pellets are my best bet as the price of fuel, wear and tear,physical effort, etc, involved in obtaining firewood makes the $6 a day habit acceptable here.... and yet I am surrounded by forests! But I still will have wood stoves as a secondary backup (or is that a 3rd backup?).

No matter, it is good that folks are preparing because I think this forethought may spare hardship in the not so distant future as instability becomes a daily occurrence.

I know I definately want a multi type pellet stove at some point, I just keep hoping for
one that will still run if the power goes off, even if I have to manually turn an auger.
A battery backup is not going to last long if there is no power.
A solar backup is not going to be reliable in the winter with snowy days and limited sunlight.

I'm sure that there must be many people thinking of this problem, so hopefully there will
be some genius working on a solution

Another problem we need to address, in a SHTF , burning wood with smoke, may lead
people right to your doorstep.

Also, there may be some SHTF situations where opening a window may be difficult for a
variety of reasons.

I think you likely read this thread but in case you didn't, http://internationalpreppersnetwork.net/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=5333

I explain that it turns out the pellet stove draws little power and show how I plan to extend the inverters battery life. And having a bunch of batteries for other purposes which could be later implemented into a solar array system is a bonus. The upkeep of a large bank of batteries is unjustifiable to many of us as it's costs far exceed that of just buying power. So the reasoning that if you already have alot of batteries doing other jobs anyways, they could be dual purposed if need be. They wouldn't do the job near as well as batteries designed for this task, but they would do in a pinch. And I have no intention of standing by a pellet stove and hand feeding it.

What do you presently have rechargeable batteries in? I have 2 reliable vehicles, 1 riding lawnmower, RV with 3 batteries, 3 motorcycles, 3 APC backups, and a bunch of smaller things. You could alternate your batteries while recharging, but at least your storing the days free solar energy. And then maybe you'd also have the main batteries you bought for the array too.

As for the wood smoke giving you away, I'd not sweat that one too much as fresh tracks around your neighborhood would give you away far quicker anyways. (unless you stay inside and hide for months). I always wish to believe that I will not refuse to help others but instead will find a way to get by. The thing is that there are those that wish to take it all and that is what I won't abide. These dangers increase drastically as population growth increase. I hope to never witness the folly of city dwellers in such harsh times as the dangers will always be far greater there.

involved in obtaining firewood makes the $6 a day habit acceptable here.... and yet I am surrounded by forests! But I still will have wood stoves as a secondary backup (or is that a 3rd backup?).

Wood stove in the house all the way, I am planning on putting one in my house next year after seeing my BOL's results from his house. He took out his Natural gas unit and now is 100% wood. This is not a pellet stove it is a sealed unit wood stove. We are surrounded by forest as well and we can get a permit to take any of the deadfall for home use at no cost. Average temperature of the house is a little on the warm side but when you look at your cast being time travelling to the forest and chopping wood with a chainsaw (fun 😀 ) I take wood. Plus I dont like the issues of natural gas and it's explosive tendencies.