Vehicles

Thanks Denob, thank you C5. Great insights.

I can definitely understand why a Corolla should be discussed. You can't kill them and they are amazing on gas. A dog sled is also really great idea guys. We all know the benefits of having man's best friend around and putting them to work for transportation suits my tastes just fine. Fuel storage is also a great point that C5 brings up. This is a major area of concern as we've seen in the Mad Max films. Oh! the golden age of cinema! ..... 😛

Alternative fuels may also be an area of consideration in a long term plan or self-sufficient mindset. Regardless of the happenings of society, I think making my own hydrogen from water through solar electrolysis would be the most effective means of alternative fuel production. Birch oil? Fuel crops? <-------- farmers should weigh in on this one! Advances in electric vehicle technology are getting closer to matching combustion systems but more work needs to be done IMO. Electric vehicles don't require fuel so its worth noting at least. Don't take electric vehicles seriously? I point to Tesla, Honda Insight, Fisker Karma, Mission Motorcycles (very cool), Drayson Racing, and the Snowbird eSnowmobile in the defense of electric power. Look them up, you may be surprised.

Regardless of future circumstances, I hate filling up at the pump. I think we all cringe at higher and higher gas prices. Using alternatives have their place in my own future if only to keep money in my wallet for a little longer. To me, backup fuel/energy options (including the chainsaw) make for a robust plan and improve preparations in general.

Living in southern Ontario (along with many others who want to prep) brings to mind for me many more considerations when it comes to vehicles. I am currently looking for the means of leaving a major population centre, if need-be, in the event of another mass event - natural or man-made. The other side of that coin is how to move - planes, trains, automobiles - and where am I headed? I'm in the same boat as Denob - I don't currently own an ideal car right now ('04 Sentra) but I'm able to blend in with urban / suburban traffic on a daily basis. Fuel also goes a long way which is a plus. I'm a student right now so this plays to my advantage in devoting my time and money towards other preps.

Along with a new education and career will be a higher income in order to get a proper car. Most likely a Wrangler as I previously mentioned in another posting of this thread. Alternatives considered have been the Toyota 4runner, Nissan Xterra, and Honda Ridgeline. The benefits and drawbacks of each I've also weighed and so the Wrangler still comes out on top for me. The 4runner a close second place. Domestic 4x4 trucks should not be overlooked IMO. I will not wade into which one is best as there's strong opinion on this topic:)

Another consideration to discuss would be watercraft. Lakes and rivers are hard to avoid here in Ontario and most would not think to take advantage of them. These waterways may in fact become a valuable alternative route to move about the landscape. Again your feedback regarding boats, rafts, PWCs, and canoes would be great.

Please keep your ideas and opinions coming!

M

I just had to post this....

Great post Knuckle.

A home you can take with you makes a lot of sense. Just ask any snail or turtle:) An RV harbours many unique attributes and worth considering. Fuel is a major concern so I would personally deem an RV as a luxury item in times of plenty. My aim is to have a 'cabin in the woods' in the future where I can head to on weekends with the family to enjoy and eventually live there full time. This will give me the option of vehicles to get from here in southern Ontario to areas of the north.

The G650 GS is an amazing bike, without a doubt. The aftermarket options however for a high capacity tank leans towards the KLR650 for me if given the option of the two. Good enough for the Marine Corp, good enough for me.

M

thanks Allegro;

Using your dog to pull a cart is both useful and practical. I have rottweilers and they can do this all day happily. But sled dogs require a leader that they follow and dogs often have to work this out themselves...meaning they fight! Few dogs other than malamutes even wish to lead instead of follow, most wanting to heel beside their masters as Rotti's do. I'm sure a man of patience could achieve this, but the nature of the creature needs adjustment to achieve success. eg: Rotti's are cattle dogs, not guard dogs. They would usually show a thief what to steal for just a pat on the head... but with enough agitating by strangers(throwing stones and hitting him with sticks), I'm sure you could make a Rottweiler mean, but they don't come that way by nature. I always have to walk my dog before he will pull the kids around and I've attempted this with various Rotti's over the years. I have made rickshaws, chariots and wheeled dog sleds for them to pull kids around as a means to show folks Rotti's are just big and friendly dogs as I tire of folks stereotyping the breed as dangerous.

Another big selling feature for a motorcycle choice would be it's quiet ability. If you hunt with a noisey vehicle, the game is already running or hiding before you even get there. This is where my Harleys would really fail 😀 , after maneuverability and fuel efficiency. 😆 The BMW would likely win over most for reliability too as they are simplistic in design as old Harleys and aircraft engines are too.

Hi Knuckle,

Rottweilers are one of the best family breeds I know of. I really appreciate your efforts in showing others just how great they are with kids and that putting them to work casts them in a different light. I really can't comment much on Malamutes since I don't have much experience with them. Seem like a pretty useful breed to have around though more territorial? Collies, Pointers, the Rhodesian Ridgeback, and Cane Corso (ask a Roman) all seem like useful breeds to me. Shepherds too.

I can see a dual sport bike or snowmobile in winter that is modified to run quiet as a useful tool when scouting and hunting. Hunters use ATVs all the time after all.

Thanks for all of your input Knuckle.

Allegro

I can't say I ever thought of taking a bicycle hunting... but that sure beats quartering and making 4 trips. And you get all the meat out without having animals chew on the other quarters a bit while your resting 😆

But I'd swear the other fella is a goner as he musta been going really fast to stick the front of that other bike so far up the deer's butt! 😮

Once they learn our methods and learn our habits, its only a matter of time before circus bears rise up against their masters!

We're Doomed.

I almost got in a knife fight with a really big Momma Bear, once, as she was teaching her cub how to break into my bus. Now I know she was really just trying to steal my bike. "Get Your paws off of me you damn dirty...um...bears...."

No, I don't have alot of money and I'm downsizing my lifestyle to simpler means as quick as I can. My RV is a 27 ft Class A much like that shown above. They sell cheap nowadays because most folks can't afford to drive them far. This is obvious when you go to purchase one. A 30 year old RV often has less than 50,000 km on it. Most just drive them to the nearest park and squat at a campsite as it is too expensive to travel in. And old ones are often is quite good shape as they were rarely used. I bought mine a few years back for $5000 and it had a $1000 hitch already installed, a 6.2 diesel engine and an Onan 4000 kw onboard generator to boot. And there were many to choose from....

Other RV Advantages:

* low mileage means drivetrain should be reliable
* RV's are already a complete organized home on wheels
* you get to carry more stuff for the longer haul
* you could go where it's known safe... instead of 1 bug out location, you have many choices
* you have a roof over loved ones heads
* you can hide prep items more easily
* many RVs carry 700 miles of fuel on board
* they all come with water tanks and propane tanks too
* and they can pull more junk if need be
* an older RV says" I'm poorer than flash over there with his shiney new one, rob him instead 😀
* you can carry backup vehicles, from motorbikes to bicycles.
* relaxing on the roof gets you above the mosquitos radar.
* the roll out awning is soon your favorite option

Disadvantages:

- gas RV's get around 6 MPG while my diesel gets 10 MPG at 80 KPH
- you have to buy insurance on another vehicle
- you have to have a place to park something this huge
- today's gas with ethonal separates quickly so fuel additives are a must...diesel RV's best but hard to find
- those with long overhang after the rear axle bottom out on even minor inclines at just gas stations. This is why mine is only 27 ft long.
- longer RV's with overhang can't pull trailers or BOV as they get more a teeter-totter affect when driving.
- you have to dip into your life's savings just to gas these pigs up. Mine holds 500 liters of fuel!
- you won't be going over or around many road obstacles with an RV
- backing up, especially with a small trailer is a test of sheer will

The biggest point I like to express upon those who bug out is having multiple backup plans. Owning an RV gives you this. You don't have to quickly opt for just what you carry on your back. If your heading for Uncle Sam's place, you brought your own home along and he likely won't tire of you so quickly. There are just too many things that we need in our daily lives to not seriously consider an RV if you must even consider bugging out an option! I live in a isolated area where most would likely head for, yet an uncontrolled forest fire means having to leave here too. We lost over a million acres of forest back in 1980 and having fought fires then is my reminder to have a backup plan even here. The RV is my first choice for a BOV and your other fallback options should break down to according to what your pulling or carrying. I listed a variety below to allow you to figure that which you could apply to your present options.

Great post knuckle and I agree with you 100% on the RV matter. Just wanted to add that I see another advantage of motorhomes over other RVs like campers or trailers. You can get up from and into the drivers seat in no time and this could be a major advantage in an emergency. Maybe I'm too paranoid on this one but you never now ...

Another thing I want to mention is that most RV owners overlook the fact that they need maintenance or they start to leak. Each window, door or any other openings and seams are sealed with something called putty tape and some special silicone. Over the years that stuff gets dried out and water starts to get in without any obvious sign. It goes into insulation and accumulates, soaks the frame and by the time it becomes visible you get into a different problem, mold. The last thing you want to have when you bug out is to a leak in your mobile home.

On a different note a vehicle is a tool that helps you accomplish a task in a plan. So the tool is going to depend on your plan and on your specific situation. The plan you make when you're on a farm and you need to leave is different than the plan you make when you live in a major city. An RV parked in your backyard won't do much if everybody else is trying to leave the city. If you have relatives or friend you're going to, or a BOL would be different than if you have nowhere to go. Do you need to carry lots of stuff with you, do you need to go a long way, do you need to sleep in the car or you're going through rough terrain. There is no vehicle that can cover all situations so it's a tough one. And of course there is the budget problem. Let's say that you find the perfect vehicle that can get you anywhere, on any weather, long distance and it can fly. How much would it cost? At some point you have to make do with what you have.

To get more to the point, we now have a wagon that we use for camping and as a daily driver but it's getting old and I'm looking to move on. Some of the cars I considered are :
- KIa sorento the truck based 4x4 model , not the newer model - cheap , real off road capabilities, good looking (that's my wife's requirement)
- Mazda MPV (up to 1999 model year_ same as above except the good looking. More space than an SUV
- Mitsubishi Delica - a minivan with lots of space, small diesel engine and good off road - disadvantages - right hand driven, newer models a bit expensive and also a bit ugly (wife again)

Just as quick proof that RV's are still cheap, I listed a few I found on Kijiji for southern Ontario. You get a whole home with a motor for the price of a cheap car. What also amazed me was that RV's are far cheaper than most camper trailers these days. It doesn't make sense from the aspect that you get a drivetrain on top and usually still more floorspace for your dollar than trailers offer. I paid around $50 for a 4 day travel permit and drove mine home.

1992 24' Citation $6000
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-rv-motorhome/ottawa/motorhome-for-sale/1003178958?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

1989 Citation Supreme 24ft Class "C" RV $4500
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-rv-motorhome/st-catharines/1989-citation-supreme-24ft-class-c-rv/1004863236?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

1990 32' class a motorhome $4000
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-rv-motorhome/ottawa/32-class-a-motorhome/1004880399?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

These are all presently for sale...cheap eh?

Now there are things to look for if you consider this option. This is what i noted in my quest for one.

1/ Most of the older Class C (van type front ends) are aluminum sided. They tend to have oxidized corners(salt corrosion) that allow moisture in to rot the plywood beneath. I don't know how bad this can get in other provinces, but Ontario RV's do have this alot.

2/ Class A motorhomes ( those with a bus style front end) tend to have fiberglass siding. This manages to keep the moisture out alot better and thus, a far better chance of no wood rot.

3/ Get up on the roof and walk around. (If they won't let you, it's probably shot). Feel for soft spots underfoot. Look for possible leaks in the caulking seal and follow them further when looking inside cupboards and such for water damage. If the roof is soft, then there is likely worse damage below.

4/ Check for soft spots on the floor throughout the interior. A soft spot near the fridge is often caused by the fridge itself as many produce water when defrosting. The most common leaks are around the roof vents.

5/ Hook up a garden hose and run the water while filling the tanks. This will quickly show leaks in the joints and if the tanks leak too. Many leaks occur from folks doing a poor flush for proper winter storage.

6/ Check to see if there is any propane still in the tanks. If they are completely empty, there is a possibility that the system leaks as folks don't often use them and just leave them empty.

7/ Don't just accept that they run. You need to test drive them before you buy as repairs to the front end for proper steering can be expensive to fix.

8/ Check out the air ride suspension and see if it leaks down quickly. Many RV's have this feature and become floating boats that are hard to drive should this feature not work properly.

9/ Look close inside all exterior compartments for moisture damage and wood rot. Most RV's are made of wood framework and much is concealed well in the living space. Therefore potential problems are easier to spot as they leave more uncovered below.

10/ A musty smell when you first go in is a possible telltale that moisture exists and therefore wood rot is more likely.

This is a list of all the not so obvious things to look for. Don't forget to check that everything else functions such as fridge, furnace, etc, too. I hope some find this info useful when checking out their potential home on wheels.

Ha ... one of those is already sold within the 12 hours you posted Knuckle. The prices are very cheap on some of them.

One will need different a class drivers license to drive a class A or a class C.
Most people , myself included just have a class G for cars

Ontario License Classes:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/classes.shtml

One will need different a class drivers license to drive a class A or a class C.
Most people , myself included just have a class G for cars

Ontario License Classes:
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/classes.shtml

It reads:

Any car, van or small truck or combination of vehicle and towed vehicle up to 11,000 kg provided the towed vehicle is not over 4,600 kg, but not,

- a motorcycle or motor assisted bicycle;
- a bus carrying passengers; or
- an ambulance in the course of providing ambulance service as defined in the Ambulance Act

(meaning vehicles that require a commercial license as those need medical abstracts every so many years).

The above applies mostly to towing of trailers that one tows behind their vehicles. The driving of class A & C RV's are the same as driving a car otherwise. Your class G license allows you to drive any RV as long as it doesn't have airbrakes (meaning some converted buses). You no longer have an excuse not to buy that RV Goldie.... 😆

Been a few tough days work helping with another's hay to keep his animals alive next winter, but I thought I would get back to this. I did a big write up on the value of small boats since you live in Ontario...but I must have hit the wrong button since it is gone. Short form. SMALL boats are good for Ontario because of all the small canals connected to all the lake and rivers that we dug before the highway and country road system ever got built.

I also wanted to say, If you rent or have an unpaid mortgage...and no family members to go to...your MUST have some form of RV. Its a short term solution but this is Canada. Exposure will kill you far faster than dehydration or starvation. I did over 10 years living in an assortment of rolling homes. Full On Road Warrior. If you actually plan to move, small is better. C5 rule of survival- Go small or go home. If you have a place you can leave it...big is better for the psychological factor. An actual home you can walk around in...but don't expect to move it easily or cheaply. This deserves an entire series but I just don't have the time. My quick thoughts," If you live in a big city, keep it parked and stocked outside of the city waiting to go. Some place you can bike to in a few days...or keep a second small one in town incase you become homeless and have to stay in the city. Its mobile PROPERTY but it has a short shelf life, mechanically, structurally, economically, logistically, Insurance, um, illly ...and psychologically. Its short term salvation but a short term solution. It certainly saved my life when I had my own SHTF...but it is a short term solution until your luck changes. Try to remember that the dice have no memory.

I just stumbled across this wile looking fore something else but I realised it gave some real life context to what I mentioned above.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBp3IxkUsF4