DIY surgeries

Ways,

Be very careful of what you read on the internet and other rumours. Doing a tracheotomy with a pocket knife and a Bic pen (if only I got a dime every time I heard that one!) is a sure way to get you in legal trouble or get arrested for manslaughter if things don't work out.

As for long term disasters (the famous TEOTWAKI), you have to think of second order effects. So, you've done a field MacGiver surgery procedure, then what? How can you keep that person alive by ventilating them? Surely, the procedure was not done in an aseptic way, so do you have antibiotics to give?

If you want to be medically prepared for a TEOTWAKI situation, maybe start with formal training. Acquire books and read them. Get the proper medical devices required. Make friend with a Doc or Paramedic, (I believe you have a military background, so maybe try to make friend with a QL-5 medic) if they are somewhat like-minded, they can probably share their knowledge and skills and may even have access to training aids. Remember that whatever you learn that way is informal and not to be used in "regular" times.

While I admire your eagerness, I feel I must warn you about a few things. Randomly shooting pigs to "practice" may very well land you in troubles with the SPCA's peace officers. In any cases, never provide any medical care beyond what you have formally been trained to do through a certifiable course (standard/advanced first aid, EMT, RN...).

Thanks Helicopilot,

I am advanced first aid trained. Which means I have a lot of information but not much knowledge. Knowledge come from having used the information in real terms. I hope I never gain any knowledge from having to save my child's life and rest assured all pigs and other animals are safe on my place until dinner. Thank you so much for sharing.

Great advice Helicopilot

I think that as men (ladies here, you can do big nod gesture with a smile), we like cool stuff without always rationalizing or understanding the whole aspect of things.

Teaching combat first aid to military folks, I was always asked at least once per class about "when will we learn how to do IVs". We won't... Is the person conscious? Can they swallow? Have them drink out of their Camelback/canteen. It's not as cool but it's as efficient. A single liter of IV fluid weighs 2 pounds. Who wants to carry a few of those on patrol? Inserting catheters in field environment isn't easy either and you're more likely to miss than get it right. Give too much fluid and you'll "drown" the person or possibly make them hypothermic. But of course, it all looks so cool in the movies!

To the same extent, there are so many questions on this forum about sutures. Can you bandage properly? Do you have an ample supply of sterile dressings and bandages, in different sizes? Have you ever tried using Steri-strips, applying them with proper tweezers? It's not as sexy as suturing, but it works, it's available, and it's not a medical skill.

In m y medic days, I remember too much good EMTs becoming stupid once they were introduced to toys like a LifePak 15 (a defibrillator and vital sign monitors) where they would treat the machine and forget to do basic ABCs and talking to the patient.

Something prepping is about mastering basics before getting into toys and cool stuff.

Ways, it's good that you've got your AFA. Keep things current by volunteering for an organization like St John Ambulance or the Ski Patrol. You will become much more familiar with patient assessment and patient care. Ask your local EMS if you could do ride-along, you'll surely pick up lots of good tips from the medics. In all cases, please don't perform medical procedures "out of scope", it's hard to prep behind bars!

Cheers

I found with the care of my mom, the nurses were great at having me "do stuff" just in case it needed to be done before "help" arrived. In all cases they stressed that it was only if she would pass away without the immediate help.

Old school,

Yours is a very good example of an exemption to what I've stated above. That situation where you were directly part of your mother's care team, intimately involved with her case and received specific directions from the nursing staff. I'm also glad to hear they added the proper caveat when they provided you with the instructions.

Rest assured, I know my limits and any surgery is way beyond them. I hear your concern and know you care. Thank you all so very much for your feedback.

I know how to do a few minor procedures and how to remove teeth, but they're things from combat lifesavers in the Marines and higher level civ and military short-run courses, for situations exactly as described - when we're an hour from getting out and it's real bad. I do know how to trach and intubate humans, steers and dogs. It's complicated enough, I pray it's never necessary for the cat but she's probably least likely to get a crushing blow to the pipes running into a pipe or fence or to inhale a ball or apple.

I don't mind the theory of people picking up surgical tools and kits for an "after" scenario running on the theory that doctors may be present but supplies limited.
I would rather see people address supplies for burns and sprains (which I foresee as being among the most common) and blisters for the ones who don't hike and work with their hands regularly as we're liable to be on our feet and using tools more in a grid-down sit.

I don't mind kits for IV's and sub-cu fluids because I've had too many ill people and pets with stomach disorders get them and the supportive care can be a lifesaver (lack of sanitation is likely to increase if we're ever grid down, increasing stomach symptoms.

I'd rather see people take care of the most common injuries, get antibiotics in 10-14 day dosages, and concentrate on some general sanitation and hygiene if they have their food basics covered and are pretty financially secure with bills and credit.
First aid and even some of the more advanced aid is good to know, but we're far more likely to lose our homes due to a fire (and thus some basics in a vehicle or backup location would be handy), be forced to evacuate due to fire or flood (see above), or have a job loss, pay cut or injury that reduces us to workman's comp, so I think there's a lot that goes ahead of investing heavily in surgical tools and training until we're well set up.
I second butterfly closures. Superglue, butterfly closures, clean gauze and regular old soap can do for a lot of open-wound injuries what duct tape, wire clothes hangers, and a screwdriver will do around the house.

Also, be aware of whether or not the kits purchased are sterile and learn procedures for sterilizing. Boiling water does not kill everything.
You also need massive amounts of gauze/bandaging/dressing pads and rolls for a major open-wound injury, especially something that needs to drain, plus cleansers for the wound.

Weather a prep is extreme or not depends on what you think you have to prepare for. It would appear from the above posts that not many of you think you have to be ready for a long term SHTF situation. I really hope your right but I really think your wrong. Either way I do thank you for your feedback.

Ways

edited post as I offended a few people, sorry

I wanted to stay clear of that topic, but here it is: when is it better to let go?

In one of my post above, I mentioned thinking of second and subsequent order consequences. If you think long term TEOTWAWKI situations, the knowledge may not be about how to be a surgeon, but rather, when to provide end-of-life care rather than resuscitative care. This is discussed in combat first aid courses when students are taught that sometimes, the best medicine is no medicine at all. How much of your scarce supplies and precious time can you dedicate to saving that one person?

Using an hypothetical scenario of someone needing a tracheotomy : aunt Suzie moved in your house 6 months after a big SHTF situation. There are now 10 people living in your house. During dinner, aunt Suzie chokes on a piece of deer meat. You try the Heimlich manoeuvre you learned in first aid class but it doesn't work and auntie collapses unconscious. Prepared to the nines, you pull out a mega medic kit and have a complete crike kit. You proceed with a tracheotomy and despite your limited practical experience, it works perfectly. You hook up a bag-valve-mask to the tube and ventilate Suzie. Then what?

The issue here with any advanced life support techniques in a long term event is the un availability of definitive care.

This is turning out to be a good discussion, I appreciate the opportunity.

Weather a prep is extreme or not depends on what you think you have to prepare for. It would appear from the above posts that not many of you think you have to be ready for a long term SHTF situation. I really hope your right but I really think your wrong. Either way I do thank you for your feedback. -Ways

I didn't get that impression, even after re-reading the posts. While general, they didn't necessarily lend themselves to a short term or a long term.

I specified some short term things I thought should be cared for first, and some individual and localized concerns, because they are more common. After the temp gov't shutdown here, we looked a lot less crazy for suggesting that everybody have everything they need, fuel to groceries to other supplies, for the 3-10 days FEMA and the Red Cross suggest, and that they find ways and inches and pennies and dimes to put away at least a month's worth of expenses. (I tend to suggest preparedness in stages, and for the most likely concerns, when trying to increase the capabilities of the Muggles, because few who have never considered preparedness on their own respond well to EOW scenarios or long-term excessive rule or absence of rule.)

I also look at some of the disasters that have come before, in far-off history and more modern times. You get pockets where there is normal and pockets where it's real bad and back to pretty much the dark ages for a time, but there's usually a thriving trade somewhere. So I stock extras and valuables, with every intention of snapping up some unprepared vet, ER nurse and-or Johns Hopkins surgeon who ends up losing the fancy car and fancy house that's all over Facebook and photo sharing sites.

I suppose sufficient wound dressings, IV/sub-cu skills and supplies, and full length doses of antibiotics could go for a short-term disaster as well - and some were part of mine fairly early on - but I can't see somebody picking up hemo clamps and a bone saw (unless they hunt or butcher) with only 3 months of groceries and no waste treatment plans, or a year's supply of groceries and toiletries/septic but only a grill and four trees in the yard.
It's like buying four of those buckets of 50,000 seeds, sticking them in the garage to get hot and cold for years alongside a super awesome hand cultivator and 2 months of MREs, and having a postage-stamp yard and eyeball deep debt.
There's some trade value, certainly, in a disaster, but I'd have spent the money and in some cases the storage space differently.

I feel the same about a lot of the big surgical kits, and even some of the more advanced first aid skills. It's in some part where somebody stands in their preparedness and what's most likely to be a need in everyday life as well as an emergency of any duration.

I wanted to stay clear of that topic, but here it is: when is it better to let go? ... The issue here with any advanced life support techniques in a long term event is the un availability of definitive care.

I see where you're going there, and oldschool's as well.

It's funny, what we think of as surgery. I think of both traumatic injury, military and from leaving the back of horses and bikes at high rates of speed, and puppies with lumps growing under their skin and the many choking/swallowing hazards we've managed to run across in our pets and livestock.

In an emergency, I don't know how many of those we'd have even been able to diagnose on our own - like oldschool's appendix.
But then, with modern doctors (exception for the ones who go to dark places and make do and do good works with rudimentary tools) I don't know how many would have saved them, either. We had a steer who inhaled an apple that was misdiagnosed for three days, until the swelling was so bad it closed off his windpipe entirely. Luckily a see-one, do-one, teach-one guy was right there to do something he'd seen done on a racehorse with fire ant bites. When the professionals were poking around afterward, they found a small apple just above the inner opening that had been made. It took three days and the chance that the guy made one cut at the right spot to ultimately save our little ox, in pretty modern times.

I don't have the skill to have pieced my jaw back together after a major fall into a wall. We might have eventually gotten my shoulder back in, but I don't know that we knew what was wrong enough to do more than sling it on our own.
It took 3 professionals 4 hours to get all the pieces of a friend's legs back together after a motorcycle accident.
So that goes with torn rotator cuffs, hyperextended knees, ACLs, and others.
Maybe at some point a limb would be so bad we'd try an amputation.
We'd try poking around to find and then close up after a gunshot or a fall through rebar or some kind of puncture wound.

At some point I might have gone in and tried to get rid of a pet's tumor, tried to save him pain in an attempt to save his life, because I'm well aware just how high quality a life dogs can have on three lives, but in the end, I'm also prepared with pain pills and sedatives to make the very end painless and as easy on them as possible. It's never easy, and it's not when a family member has something incurable, either, so pain management is something that stays on my mind at this stage.
I guess it comes down to what kind of surgery is being discussed, and what kind of skills are available for dealing with them.